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  • Bargnani Still "Untouchable"

    I’m not surprised that we’re hearing all kinds of rumours about Raptor players. The word is everybody but Andrea Bargnani is available and one of Jarrett Jack/Jose Calderon will definitely not be back next season.
    Source: Toronto Sun

    I cannot for the life of me understand why trading Bargnani would be out of the question still. I like the guy, don't get me wrong, but if this off-season is a rebuild then dangling him out there to see what's biting wouldn't hurt. No need to pull the trigger but wouldn't it be nice to at least know?

  • #2
    Good work Bry. As everyone here knows already, Bargnani is a guaranteed All-Star this year, right multipaul?

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    • #3
      ... Please... Let's not have two Bargnani worshiping threads around here. I swear the other thread is one step behind sacrificing animals as tribute.

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      • #4
        I'm all for dangling him out there in the hopes of finding an upgrade, but I DO think that he'll produce a lot better from the PF spot, and that we might get a glimpse of that next season when we are lacking in CB4-ness.

        Scott.
        Don't hate me because I'm an optimist.

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        • #5
          I think the logic is that BC wants someone to build around that's gonna be here for a while. With Bosh likely out the door and DeRozen still being to young for anyone to get a feel on, he has decided that Bargs is going to be the guy, at least for this coming season. He needs to start rebuilding this team somewhere and using a guy who is both our former number one pick and who is not opposed to playing in "Small market Toronto" seems like a great place to start. If he trades everyone, we'll suddenly have no one that we're trying to complement and trying to build a team with no player or players to base your strategy is not the easiest thing in the world.
          "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

          -Churchill

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          • #6
            hateslosing wrote: View Post
            I think the logic is that BC wants someone to build around that's gonna be here for a while. With Bosh likely out the door and DeRozen still being to young for anyone to get a feel on, he has decided that Bargs is going to be the guy, at least for this coming season. He needs to start rebuilding this team somewhere and using a guy who is both our former number one pick and who is not opposed to playing in "Small market Toronto" seems like a great place to start. If he trades everyone, we'll suddenly have no one that we're trying to complement and trying to build a team with no player or players to base your strategy is not the easiest thing in the world.
            I understand what you're saying and I do feel that you make a very valid point, it's definitely easier to build around a known entity and to complement that player than to build around an unknown entity. With that said however, what happens when the player you're looking to build around isn't exceptional, nor does he possess the ability to be exceptional. I'm not saying that the book is out on Bargnani, nor am I saying that he's a bad player. All I'm saying is that he has flaws, and I'm not sure if these are things that can be corrected. Passion, fire, drive...These are intrinsic qualities, they cannot be learned. I'm not sure if Bargnani possesses the attributes that are ideal for building a franchise around.

            I think that Bargnani could be a nice piece, with continued development he could possibly develop into one of the better players in the league at his position. But to build around him, I'm not so sure it's ideal. I get what you're saying about Toronto, that players - for one reason or another - don't want to come here. That argument has bearing to some degree. But I think that if we were to field a competitive, competent basketball team, we wouldn't have those problems. All I want is for Colangelo to put together the best young talent that he can this off-season so we can get this rebuild rolling...The Chris Bosh era is over, we tried, but we were ultimately unsuccessful. It's time to re-tool, and if that means parting with your former no. 1 pick, I think that's something that Bryan has got to consider.

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            • #7
              I'm not saying a word. Oh, I guess I just did.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
              Follow me on Twitter.

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              • #8
                What happened to the team ball? I'm sick and tired of that "franchise player", "building around somebody", etc.
                bull**. It's running the league. Just look in what circus the pending free agency is turning.

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                • #9
                  robito wrote: View Post
                  I understand what you're saying and I do feel that you make a very valid point, it's definitely easier to build around a known entity and to complement that player than to build around an unknown entity. With that said however, what happens when the player you're looking to build around isn't exceptional, nor does he possess the ability to be exceptional. I'm not saying that the book is out on Bargnani, nor am I saying that he's a bad player. All I'm saying is that he has flaws, and I'm not sure if these are things that can be corrected. Passion, fire, drive...These are intrinsic qualities, they cannot be learned. I'm not sure if Bargnani possesses the attributes that are ideal for building a franchise around.

                  I think that Bargnani could be a nice piece, with continued development he could possibly develop into one of the better players in the league at his position. But to build around him, I'm not so sure it's ideal. I get what you're saying about Toronto, that players - for one reason or another - don't want to come here. That argument has bearing to some degree. But I think that if we were to field a competitive, competent basketball team, we wouldn't have those problems. All I want is for Colangelo to put together the best young talent that he can this off-season so we can get this rebuild rolling...The Chris Bosh era is over, we tried, but we were ultimately unsuccessful. It's time to re-tool, and if that means parting with your former no. 1 pick, I think that's something that Bryan has got to consider.
                  I think Bargs COULD be the guy, but you could be right, his lack of passion on the court could will hurt his ability to lead plus their is no guarantee he will become the player we invision (20/8). I guess the issue is IF Bargs can be that guy and we trade him for some middle (we will not get an all star or borderline guy back for him) piece and he goes somewhere and starts playing at a very high level we will regret it. I am of the opinion that he should be given a chance to show what he can do as the primary option. It shouldn't hurt his trade value if he is unsuccessful at it since I don't think he's seen as an all-star around the league, and if he is successful we're in business for the next 5 years. Sort of like hedging your bet.
                  "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                  -Churchill

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                  • #10
                    Problem is, the potential that Bargs has and the player he could turn out to be would be significantly better than anything that BC would get in a trade for him. There's not much point in buying high and selling low

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                    • #11
                      cornbreadd wrote: View Post
                      Problem is, the potential that Bargs has and the player he could turn out to be would be significantly better than anything that BC would get in a trade for him. There's not much point in buying high and selling low
                      I see it differently. I see Bargnani's value at it's height right now because he is seen as possibly still having more potential. If next year he plateaus, as I believe he will, his trade value will decrease. I think this is the perfect time to trade him, since I don't think he will be worth more than he is right this moment.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                      Follow me on Twitter.

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                      • #12
                        I think Colangelo has to make Bargnani untouchable, otherwise our whole roster is trade assets.
                        CB4 was untouchable, now he might leave. Derozan's too young to be deemed franchise player. JJ not it, neither is Calderon. Turk is "untouchable" I guess, but in a bad contract type of way.
                        If he doesn't make Barg "untradeable", it would look like BC doesn't know what direction the franchise is headed, which player he will built upon, potential FA's coming in doesn't who they will play with.
                        But I thik Colangelo is smart enough that he will include Barg in a trade (depsite his untouchable status), if it gets us a great player in return.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          How about this plan!!!


                          Trade Hedo to Orlando for Gortat and Matt Barnes in a sign and trade.
                          Maybe they want Rasho for a super cheap backup included in the deal
                          Orlando does this because Gortat wants more minutes they dont need to pay Dwights backup 6.5 mil and this wouldgive them a potent offensive attack with Boston gettting older they become the favorite pending where all the FA move

                          Jammer Arroyo
                          Vince JJ Redick
                          Hedo Pietrus
                          Rahsard Bass
                          Howard Maybe Rasho

                          Next trade-

                          http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=2chevk4

                          OK OK i know this sounds crazy but allow me to explain

                          New Orleans does this in a heartbeat they get to shed bad contracts + backup PG for Monta Ellis, with him and Paul dynamite backcourt. James johnson contract is not guranteed so they can waive him and save cash as well

                          Toronto does this to get a great young PG and shed Jose with having to take Posey bad contract back

                          Miami does this because they dont want Beasley and now can focus on front court help to go along with Jose/ Wade and tons of cap space.

                          Goldenstate losses Ellis who they still have some bitterness toward and are worried about him and Steph Curry playing together long term and land Beasley a young PF who fits there system great maybe they need the Raps 13th pick to make this work.

                          The Raps then would have

                          Collison/Jack/Banks
                          Derozan/Weems/Belli
                          Barnes/Posey/
                          Bosh/Evans
                          Andrea/Gortat

                          And.......still might have our 13th pick and two expiring contracts in Banks and Evans that could be moved before or during the season....And would still have the MLE exception to use on Amir or someone else...

                          Long shot ofcourse but the possibilities are out there!!!!

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                          • #14
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            Source: Toronto Sun

                            I cannot for the life of me understand why trading Bargnani would be out of the question still. I like the guy, don't get me wrong, but if this off-season is a rebuild then dangling him out there to see what's biting wouldn't hurt. No need to pull the trigger but wouldn't it be nice to at least know?
                            "Dangling him out there" for what? Do you think LA will throw Kobe in a deal for Bargnani? I don't understand why Raptors fans are so eager to get rid of everybody, like is not enough that the star players move on by themselves.

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                            • #15
                              According to Doug Smith's blog ... no one is untouchable on the Raptors, not even Bargnani.

                              Smith answered a question (is Andrea untouchable?) with this ... "No one’s “untouchable” in the right circumstances on this team; that’s a myth perpetuated by fans who like to read more into things than are there"

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