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Thread: Chisholm: Raptors Should Chase Collison & Okafor

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    Raptors Republic Rookie robito's Avatar
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    Default Chisholm: Raptors Should Chase Collison & Okafor

    http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=324646
    The Raptors NEED to acquire Darren Collison.

    Not quite what you were expecting, huh?

    While I generally abhor talking about rumored trades, and will almost never theorize about trades which haven't even made it to the rumor stage (like this one), the circumstances facing the Raptors and the Hornets made this marriage too perfect to pass up. And since all there is to discuss in Raptor-land is conjecture, anyway, I'd rather write about that than nothing at all.

    The Raptors have been without a high-caliber point guard since the halcyon days of Damon Stoudamire back in the mid-90s. Despite numerous attempts to fill his void (Mark Jackson, Alvin Williams, T.J. Ford, Jose Calderon), no replacement has been able to give the Raptors the kind of top-flight point guard they have (at times desperately) needed.

    Now, there is no rule, implied or otherwise, that says that a team needs a top-flight point guard to run their ship. In fact, the Lakers are currently playing in their fifth Finals with Derek Fisher at the starting point guard spot, and while he's inarguably effective, he's never come close to an All-Star or All-NBA nod in his life.

    That said, though, the bulk of the other power teams in the NBA are increasingly employing point guards of the highest caliber. Rajon Rondo, Steve Nash, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook Andre Miller, Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams and Brandon Jennings were all playing in the Playoffs this season while Ford, Calderon, Chris Duhon, Rodney Stuckey, Mike Conley, Beno Udrih and Jonny Flynn sat at home and watched.

    The point is that it seems much easier to make your way in this league with a top point guard than to try and squeeze by with an average one. Still, perhaps you are not convinced that Darren Collison -- last year's 21st overall pick in the draft -- can really insert himself into the conversation with the former group above, especially since his Hornets also missed the Playoffs. Let's debunk that thinking, stat!

    While maybe his 12.4-points and 5.7-assists per-game overall last year weren't especially eye-opening, his 18.8-points and 9.1-assists per-game as a starter were. Especially since, due to injuries to regular starter Chris Paul, he actually started 37 games for the Hornets last season, nearly half of the season, making the sample size significantly more relevant than had he simply blown up the last weeks of the season (*cough*JrueHoliday*cough*). As a starter, he shot 49% from the field, 43% from behind the arc, and had better overall averages than the highly-touted Stephen Curry (17.9ppg, 6.1apg, .461 FG%, .436% 3PFG) and Brandon Jennings (17.1ppg, 6.3apg, .371 FG%, .374 3PFG%). This is a guy that had fourteen 10+ assist games last season (which is eight more than Derrick Rose had), including one 18 assist game and one 20 assist game. He scored over 30-points twice, and over 20-points sixteen times (two more than Rajon Rondo). Keep in mind, too, that those outbursts occurred despite him coming off of the bench for 39 games on a pretty bad NOLA squad. He even had a triple-double (18-12-13) back on February 19 against Indiana. Not too shabby.

    But Collison's impact extends farther than simple point and assist numbers. 49% of his personal offense last season occurred in the first ten seconds of the shot clock, and that was when he was most effective, percentage-wise (going for a 55% eFG% in that time). With head coach Jay Triano being an avowed proponent of the virtues of early-clock offense, that is a tremendous fit for his style. Collison is a lightening-quick guard, too, and he saw 34% of his offense come from the inside, despite his diminutive six-foot frame (he shot a 56% eFG% in those situations last season). In fact, he took more shots per-game from around the basket (3.5 per-game) than he did anywhere else on the floor, a real boon to a team that all too often settles for long jumpers instead of forcing their attack towards the rim. That means that not only does Collision have the tools to create his own offense but he also has the quickness to beat the opposition off of the dribble, get to the basket and collapse defenses, opening up the floor for his teammates - most importantly the three-point threat, Bargnani. He is also very strong at creating offense when using screens, which would also greatly aid in chemistry with Bargnani in pick-and-pop situations, a staple of the Raptors attack.

    As a defender, Collison loves to pester his man, even though he isn't a lock-down guy, and he averaged 1.5 steals per game as a starter last season, which is a deadly skill to have since he is so quick in transition that he makes teams pay for turning the ball over by scoring quickly at the other end...
    continued (check link)....

    Found this article quite interesting...Of all the players being as possible additions this summer, Collison is the one who turns me on the most. In fact the thought of which alone gives me a semi. To read the rest of the article, check out this link. I for one would be willing to give up #13 with our expiring deals in a heartbeat, although I'd be a little hesitant on giving up DeRozan. The three team deal with a trade exception is also very intriguing...

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    Raptors Republic Starter blaze89's Avatar
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    the way i see it, this offseason will be a failure in my eyes if we dont get collison.......we havent had talent like that running our offense since the glory days (if you call them glory days) and would solve our lack of "explosiveness" on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball....... he would also presumably fit well in our system as chisolm rehiterated in the article...... time to move that ass coleangelo

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    Easiest way to work it is to convince Bosh that New Jersey is the place to be and make this trade:

    BOSH
    for
    FAVORS (if picked but as yet unsigned to a contract), 2011 MIAMI 2nd round pick, 2012 NJN 1st (lotto protected) and TPE of ~ $17 million

    then

    BRADLEY (if picked at 13**) and TPE
    for
    COLLISON and STOJAKOVIC

    Voila!

    HOWEVER

    If BC gets some sunshine blown up his butt then this would be the dream scenario imo:

    TURKOGLU
    for
    2016 NJN 2nd rounder and $9.8 million TPE

    BOSH
    for
    FAVORS (if picked but as yet unsigned to a contract) and TPE of ~ $17 million

    BRADLEY (if picked at 13**) and TPE
    for
    TURNER (if picked but as yet unsigned to a contract) and BRAND

    DEROZAN, BANKS and $9.8 million TPE
    for
    COLLISON, POSEY(**) and PETERSON (using the $9.8 million TPE)

    ** pick would have to be worked out beforehand
    ** NOH saves $7.3 million in Cap space in yr 1 (dropping below the Tax) and is happy to dump the second year of POSEY's contract at $6.9 million

    Best part is - this all works AND it is plausible.

    New Raptors core:

    PG: Jack/Calderon (to be traded) /Collison
    SG: Weems
    SF: Turner
    PF: Bargnani
    .C: Favors

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    the more I hear of all the possibilities, the more I don't want us to sink a max contract on Bosh.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    First, I love Collison. He is everything I want Avery Bradly to be with none of the uncertainties. He is a pure point guard and I would be happy to give up our pick to get someone who has already played at a high level in the NBA.
    I think YKoil (and Christholm) has a point about using a trade exception after the Bosh deal is over to make things sweeter for New Orleans. I don't think we can get the the third pick for Bosh so this is my suggestion. Let's think for a second, we send Bosh to the Lakers for example and get back Bynum with a trade exception. Then we take that trade exception, Evans, and our pick and turn them into Collison and Stojakovic. Essentially we moved Bosh, a pick and Reggie Evans for Collison, Stojacovic, and Bynum. That's not a terrible deal under normal circumstances and is a downright steal in a sign and trade. Now we have

    Collison/Jack
    DD/Belli
    Peja/Weems
    Bargs/Amir
    Bynum

    I haven't checked the numbers to make sure this works, but you get the idea but if we need more we can throw Banks in or Belli. We can then fill in our bench by moving Calderon and Turk for pieces and there we go decent little squad that could grow into something great. I see defense being a problem with this squad, but it would be better than this past season.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I think to get Collison it's probably going to take DeRozan heading their way... They're going to want more than a 13th overall pick for this guy. They'll want something really nice.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    @ Apollo

    I think it will depend what other people offer them. They have to get rid of of one of there big Contracts or their franchise is going to be bleeding money by the bucket. That said, I think you could be right that they'll want DeRozen. Indiana, for example, is a team with a tonne of expiring deals coming next year that is desperate for a point guard, and they have a higher pick than us and would also want to make this deal. If we have to move DeRozen to get Collison, I'm no longer as sure about the deal. It's not so much that I think DD will be a better player (he could, but it's not something I'd bet on) it's that I don't see us getting a decent shooting guard anywhere else this summer. I might be tempted if we got to switch picks with them I'd probably still do it.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

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    Yeah I love how people think NO doesn't need Collison because they have Paul so now they are just shipping him out to the first person who calls. Collison would go top five in this draft and is an all star caliber point guard in a draft devoid of point guards. I'm not even sure if NO can trade him because they are so worried about Paul leaving, plus DC makes peanuts. I am sure Indy or Memphis would offer thier pick plus at bare minimum a Conley/Hansbrough.

    NO either needs to be competitive now, which is unlikely or start shipping off assets to rebuild around Collison/Thorton. I think they trade Paul before they ship out Collison for a late lottery pick or they package Peja with Collison for a Granger/Al Jefferson.

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    You forgot about Tim's first scenario which not only included the aforementioned Collison but as well Okafor.

    The first possible scenario is the simplest if all New Orleans wants is to shave salaries: Toronto trades three expiring deals (Marco Belinelli, Reggie Evans and Marcus Banks) and takes back Collision and Okafor - who has another four-years and $52-million left on his contract. The Hornets immediately shed $1-million in the transaction, and could arrange buyouts with Evans and Banks that could possibly get them under the tax threshold immediately (depending on what New Orleans does with their draft pick and mid-level exception this summer). The Raptors, in serious danger of losing Bosh this summer, get a starting centre in the deal that plays great post defense, rebounds, and allows Andrea Bargnani to be a finesse big man at the power forward position - the spot GM Bryan Colangelo wants him to play at should Bosh leave this summer - in addition to a great, cheap starting point guard.

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    If they dump Collison and Okafor, Paul packs his bags that very day. He is on par with Kobe and Wade as far competitiveness and will not waste another year of his prime as the Hornets organizations zigs and zags in order to save a couple million. Paul is likely classier than Kobe and won't go on radio stations hammering the GM for the moves they made, but he will quietly demand a trade.

    Okafor's deal is in Hedo territory and he likely can't be moved unless packaged with a prized piece or exchanged in a pure dump. Before anyone keeps imagining all these great scenario's in which we steal Collison and absorb Okafor, think if Chris Paul would sign off on this first.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie phdsteve's Avatar
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    Ill ask TIm about this article, why he thinks Okafor can help here, and how Bradley compares with Collison tonight when I interview him. He is the guest on tomorrows podcast.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    If they dump Collison and Okafor, Paul packs his bags that very day. He is on par with Kobe and Wade as far competitiveness and will not waste another year of his prime as the Hornets organizations zigs and zags in order to save a couple million. Paul is likely classier than Kobe and won't go on radio stations hammering the GM for the moves they made, but he will quietly demand a trade.

    Okafor's deal is in Hedo territory and he likely can't be moved unless packaged with a prized piece or exchanged in a pure dump. Before anyone keeps imagining all these great scenario's in which we steal Collison and absorb Okafor, think if Chris Paul would sign off on this first.
    Why would Chris Paul want Collison to stay in town? You're right that Collison is a prospective all-star point guard but an all-star point is pretty useless if he's playing behind an even better point guard. New Orleans needs to move one of them and since Paul is the best in world, I think they definitely move Collison.
    I think Paul will be happy if they move Collison and one of their big contracts as long as they get something decent in return. If I were Paul, I'd want them to move out Collison, Okafor, Stoicovic and Posey for cap space and take a run a Amare or Boozer. Heck, if they could add Jeff Green or Anthony Randolph they'd be a pretty good squad.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    I know Bosh gave a list of 5 teams he would be willing to play for, its funny how none of them have a lights out pg. If Bosh wants to leave, it would be worth it to try and and persuade him to go play along CP3 (the best pg in the game.) If Raps could get Okafor and Collison in return, we are laughing. But there's no way Turk is going. He's pretty much the same type of player as Peja, only not as good. Turk for Nocioni would be great though. Collison, Nocioni, and Okafor can all play great defence! Dont' forget that the Raps picked up Joey Dorsey too. I'm not sure what happened to him since he's been in the league, but this guy was a wicked college player. Obviously he's not the answer, but he has potential which is why BC would of signed him.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Let's think for a second, we send Bosh to the Lakers for example and get back Bynum with a trade exception. Then we take that trade exception, Evans, and our pick and turn them into Collison and Stojakovic.
    I'm pretty sure you need to trade a player to someone UNDER the cap to get a trade exception.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Why would Chris Paul want Collison to stay in town? You're right that Collison is a prospective all-star point guard but an all-star point is pretty useless if he's playing behind an even better point guard. New Orleans needs to move one of them and since Paul is the best in world, I think they definitely move Collison.
    I think Paul will be happy if they move Collison and one of their big contracts as long as they get something decent in return. If I were Paul, I'd want them to move out Collison, Okafor, Stoicovic and Posey for cap space and take a run a Amare or Boozer. Heck, if they could add Jeff Green or Anthony Randolph they'd be a pretty good squad.
    I don't think Paul necessarily wants or doesn't want Collison alongside him, but all the rumors have him being packaged with Emeka to essentially reduce salary. If NO makes a big trade they have to be getting back good player's who can help them contend right away. I think Randolph or even Jeff Green would help, but the ultra pu pu platter of Banks, Beli and Evans is only helping Toronto. If Paul isn't contending for a title this year or laying the foundation for a run next year he is going to pull shoot.

    Barring a huge move, I don't see NO competing in the wild, wild west. I think it makes financial sense to trade Paul as well as strategic sense to acquire and build around more young talent and hopefully grow a Thunderesque core in a couple of years. Peja is the big domino for them, if they don't turn him into a high priced vet, the CP3 train will start boarding for departure.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Pacer on hunt for Collison

    the Pacers have reached out to New Orleans about the former UCLA point guard.
    Source: IndyStar.com

    The Pacers desperately want a star PG to play with Granger. They potentially have as much as $49M in expiring contracts to offer up in any deal. The Raptors can't match what the Pacers can offer.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    A Trade Exemption would trump expiring contracts, since the expiring contracts will only save you tax money after next season. Don't you think?

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Source: IndyStar.com

    The Pacers desperately want a star PG to play with Granger. They potentially have as much as $49M in expiring contracts to offer up in any deal. The Raptors can't match what the Pacers can offer.
    Nicely Said. We have 2 contracts that we want to get ride of. One if Jose and the other Hedo. We maybe able to package Jose with Bosh but then we need the expiring contracts of Banks and Regiee and the draft pick to off load Hedo.

    So I am not sure How we can get Collison from Pacers and still have tools to get ride of Hedo and Jose as well.

    Some of the scenario's given in this thread and very unrealistic.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    "I'm pretty sure you need to trade a player to someone UNDER the cap to get a trade exception." -Katman

    You're right, I had forgotten about that.

    "Barring a huge move, I don't see NO competing in the wild, wild west. I think it makes financial sense to trade Paul as well as strategic sense to acquire and build around more young talent and hopefully grow a Thunderesque core in a couple of years. Peja is the big domino for them, if they don't turn him into a high priced vet, the CP3 train will start boarding for departure." -Mo-Sales

    I think when you have a guy like Chris Paul on your team, you are always one player away from contending. I don't agree about them trading Paul and rebuilding as being the best option for them, even though I would love to try to get CP3. They have the best point guard in the league and I think when you get someone like that, you hang on to them until they either demand a trade or retire. Also, keep in mind that not every team that tries to rebuild through the draft is successful and they could just be setting themselves up for years of finishing just out of the playoffs. I do agree with you about Peja, he is certainly the guy they need to turn into something good and the reason I put him in my trade scenario was not necessarily because I thought it was what NO would want, but he is certainly the best of NO's awful contract and he would fill the hole Turk is leaving.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    I know Bosh gave a list of 5 teams he would be willing to play for, its funny how none of them have a lights out pg.
    Ya, that Derrick Rose guy is crap, isn't he?

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