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Thread: Rumour: Hedo To Be Dealt on Draft Day?

  1. #21
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure you understand the anatomy of the Raptors or bball for that matter. What does his offense have to do with anything? His numbers were down for sure, but Hedo did a terrific job distributing the ball and getting his teamates involved (modest.) The Raps ended up being one of the top 5 offensive teams in the league. Utah was also a top 5 team offensively, so his role will be to continue to help Deron spread the floor out, and it will be an easy transition. Toronto's problem was defence buddy. And whats wrong with hear say, I think its entertaining in the offseason. Are you a robot?
    He wasn't modest, he bitched and moaned to everyone who would listen about how he wasn't getting the ball enough and about how the team wasn't calling his number enough. If he was modest he would have shut the hell up and just played his role with effort. Instead of doing that he acted unprofessionally, suggesting his Raptors' role was below him and was the cause of his poor play at times. You can't attach the term modest to someone with his track record from the 2009/2010 season. How's that for understanding?

    I question the statement regarding Hedo's modesty on the court. If you start following this board you will see that I am one of the people in here consistently criticizing the team's defense and suggesting a focus on bringing in defensive minded players in place of Bosh, should he leave.

    Hasta la vista baby,
    Apollo
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jun 17th, 2010 at 04:32 PM.

  2. #22
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    Default Dear Apollo,

    [QUOTE=Apollo;20431]He wasn't modest, he bitched and moaned to everyone who would listen about how he wasn't getting the ball enough and about how the team wasn't calling his number enough. If he was modest he would have shut the hell up and just played his role with effort. Instead of doing that he acted unprofessionally, suggesting his Raptors' role was below him and was the cause of his poor play at times. You can't attach the term modest to someone with his track record from the 2009/2010 season. How's that for understanding? <-- LOL!

    When was Hedo bitching and complaing during the season about not getting the ball enough? I actually remember him being too passive, and everybody was on his case about shooting more. Did you check a game out at least? There was one revelation in which Hedo aired out his frustration with Toronto, which was after the season. Hedo is an easy going, lighthearted, terrific ball player. His decision to leave is based on the fact that the central media surrounding Toronto made him a scapegoat for a woeful season. You say Toronto needs to load up on defenders, well Hedo was one of our best buddy.

    You want to talk about being modest? If TORONTO was more of a MODEST city, and didn't turn into retards after every season trying to point fingers why we didn't win a championship, you would see allot more players willing to play for a city who supports their team win or lose. But instead people like you ruin it for the rest of us fans in Canada.

    I'm out

  3. #23
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    When was Hedo bitching and complaing during the season about not getting the ball enough?
    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    There was one revelation in which Hedo aired out his frustration with Toronto, which was after the season.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    January 11, 2010 10:40 am
    Turkoglu, who signed a five-year $53-milliion deal US with Toronto this summer, admitted yesterday he is uncomfortable with his role at a time when just about everyone else on this Raptors roster seems to have found a comfort zone … In short, Turkoglu is not playing with the ball in his hands as much as he was accustomed to in Orlando and he’s having a hard time making an impact in games without it. ‘It’s hard for me to tell you right now that I can run down the side and just expect to be a spot-up guy after the past three years being the point guard and leading the team and making those decisions,’ Turkoglu said./
    Source: Slam Online

    Jan 29, 2010 / 3:30 pm
    “What was the different for you tonight, in terms of setting the tone with your game?” Hedo simply said “ball” and an awkward five seconds of silence followed.

    Armstrong broke the silence by saying, “The ball in your hands and you did something with it.” Turkoglu looking somewhat annoyed, shrugged his shoulders and responded, “I’ve got nothing more to say.”
    Source: Dime Magazine

    Hedo stealing money in the first year of his contract, blaming fans, playing terribly
    Source: Yahoo Sports
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Did you check a game out at least?
    You discredit yourself with comments like that.

    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Hedo is an easy going, lighthearted, terrific ball player. His decision to leave is based on the fact that the central media surrounding Toronto made him a scapegoat for a woeful season. You say Toronto needs to load up on defenders, well Hedo was one of our best buddy.
    You discredit yourself with comments like that.

    * No-Defense Player of the Year: Hedo Turkoglu, Toronto. Welcome to the instigator of this year’s Eyeball Test theme.

    This season, I watched three or four Toronto games, almost from beginning to end. And each time that I saw a heavy, lead-footed, non-rotating large man dressed in a Raptors jersey, I thought, “When did Swen Nater get traded to Toronto and why is he playing at age 60?”

    Oh, wait, that wasn’t Nater.

    That was Turkoglu, who used to be a decent defensive player. And yet each time I saw him this year–his first in Toronto–I thought he was decidedly slower and more disinterested even than Andrea Bargnani, and that is saying something.

    Turkoglu’s periphals aren’t good–Toronto gave up 116.1 points per 100 possessions when he played, and 111.9 when he didnt–but Bargnani’s are worse.

    Still Turkoglu, to my eyes, was the foundation and personification of the Raptors’ defensive listness this season. He waddled around out there, let dribblers through, didn’t contest, stopped dead when he met a screen, didn’t get back in transition… he was awful.

    The Raps have been bad on D for a while. It’s just that I thought Toronto stopped trying about mid-season, and my eyeballs tell me that Turkoglu was at the heart of that.

    Plus, I made up my mind early on that, to honor the Raptors or Warriors’ season-long defensive surrender, the 2010 NDPOY had to come from one of those two rosters

    Congratulations, Hedo.
    Source: Mercury News

    Turkoglu has been terrible this season. Absolutely awful on defense
    Source: Yahoo sports

    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    You want to talk about being modest? If TORONTO was more of a MODEST city, and didn't turn into retards after every season trying to point fingers why we didn't win a championship, you would see allot more players willing to play for a city who supports their team win or lose. But instead people like you ruin it for the rest of us fans in Canada. I'm out
    Gate numbers, even at the worst of times this decade, place the Raptors in the top twenty. Usually they're closer to the top ten most seasons. On a really nice seasons, they have been in the top five. This tells me that people get out and support their team regardless of the record. Then you can scan the Internet and look at all the hardcore fans who post in places like this. The fans get behind players who work hard. If you come to Toronto and you don't work hard or be professional, you're not going to have a good time. You work hard and be professional, you're going to have a good time. It's as clear as that. Guys like Sonny Weems and Amir Johnson are held with the highest level of respect around here because they're professional and they work hard. If they make mistakes all is forgiven because they play with honor and integrity always. Fan favorites of the past, such as Matt Bonner and Jerome Williams made a lot of mistakes but the fans absolutely loved them. Why? Honor, integrity and accountability; work horses and true professionals.
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jun 17th, 2010 at 07:45 PM.

  4. #24
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    It's the Hedo Multipaul!

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    Default Dear Apollo Pt. 2

    Apollo, it looks like you googled "Bad Hedo 2010" and copy and pasted any crum of criticism you could find. Let me break it down:

    Slam online- What the hell is this? Its definately not Hedo bitching, I would say its a reality that comes with any new player trying to adjust to a new offensive scheme.

    Dime Magazine- You should actually be ashamed of putting this in. Who doesn't feel frustrated after a loss sometimes? Who hasn't snubbed the media? This is just another example of unfair media branding. If you were an athlete, and were slumping do you not think its human to at times be frustrated?

    Yahoo Sports- Opinion

    Discrediting Myself- Opinion

    Mercury News- Opinion

    Yahoo Sports again- Opinion

    Your absolutely correct about fans filling up the Air Canada Centre. However, as soon as any of the big contract athletes in Toronto can't find their stride, or is in a slump, or whatever, the fans immediately jump on him and make him centre of shitty attention(Vernon Wells.) I blame it on the Toronto media. Their cynical views rub off on the locals, and in turn we say good-bye to the most promising free agent the Raps have ever signed. Oh by the way I never said the ACC had a problem filling up..

    These are the worst examples of Hedo bitching. I can now tell that your bball IQ is derived from opinions and not from experience.

  6. #26
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    NIck,

    You know, of course, that EVERYTHING that EVERYONE writes about basketball is opinion, right? Including YOUR opinion that Turkoglu is a good defender. You gain opinions FROM experience. Apollo was backing up his opinion with a variety of informed and respected sources. You don't seem to be able to back up your opinions with anything. When there is a consensus of opinion, as there is with Turkoglu's lack of defense, it's not a big jump to surmise that the opinion is pretty close to a truth.

    Do YOU have anything to back up YOUR opinion that Turkoglu is not a bad defender?

  7. #27
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    Tim,

    Your not Judge Joe Brown, so your mediator status should be disregarded as you haven't been following our posts it full depth. Let me give ya a refresher. Hedo is a big bag of shit, sucks on defence, whatever.. I said that Hedo HADN'T been complaining all year. Apollo presented me with articles where different journalists were sharing THEIR opinions, NOT HEDOS. I want to know, do you consider these to be valid sources that scream "i'm Hedo, and I'm bitching"? Turks defence wasn't really the basis of our argument Timmy, so i'm just going to pretend you never went on that pointless rant.

    Court Ajourned.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Rookie Vellassco's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Do YOU have anything to back up YOUR opinion that Turkoglu is not a bad defender?
    The numbers for Pietrus are average but let's talk about Turkoglu's stats, which - I'm certain - will surprise people who don't follow or do follow the Magic closely. The numbers indicate that Turkoglu was an excellent defender during the regular season. It's clear that Howard's presence (the reigning Defensive Player of the Year) bears an influence on the statistics, when looking back at Turkoglu's defensive stats last season in comparison to this season. So how good is Turkoglu, defensively, when taking that into account? Average to above-average, safe to say. He's certainly not a liability on defense. An example, Turkoglu's defensive work on Kobe Bryant during the fourth quarter in Game 2 of the NBA Finals. Need another example? Here's what David Thorpe had to say about Turkoglu in an article posted on TrueHoop:
    Evaluating The Small Forwards Using Statistics :

    http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com...small-forwards

  9. #29
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Tim,

    Your not Judge Joe Brown, so your mediator status should be disregarded as you haven't been following our posts it full depth. Let me give ya a refresher. Hedo is a big bag of shit, sucks on defence, whatever.. I said that Hedo HADN'T been complaining all year. Apollo presented me with articles where different journalists were sharing THEIR opinions, NOT HEDOS. I want to know, do you consider these to be valid sources that scream "i'm Hedo, and I'm bitching"? Turks defence wasn't really the basis of our argument Timmy, so i'm just going to pretend you never went on that pointless rant.

    Court Ajourned.
    Your argument is incredibly boring so following it in detail is not something anyone wants to do. In your last one, though, you stated something that didn't make sense and I called you on it. If I had come out on your side, would you have still disregarded what I said?

  10. #30
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Your argument is incredibly boring so following it in detail is not something anyone wants to do. In your last one, though, you stated something that didn't make sense and I called you on it. If I had come out on your side, would you have still disregarded what I said?
    Too much words but say nothing! You are just speculating.

    Look at the mirror. The boring posts at this particular thread are exactly yours, my friend.

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    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    Too much words but say nothing! You are just speculating.

    Look at the mirror. The boring posts at this particular thread are exactly yours, my friend.
    Thank You! I'm not even sure what the hell Tim is talking about.

  12. #32
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    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    Too much words but say nothing! You are just speculating.

    Look at the mirror. The boring posts at this particular thread are exactly yours, my friend.
    Sorry that insulted your son Nick. I apologize. And numbers don't tell the whole story. You have to watch. Basketball talk is all speculating and anyone that doesn't think so is deluding themselves.

    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Thank You! I'm not even sure what the hell Tim is talking about.
    That says more about you than me.

  13. #33
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    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    Evaluating The Small Forwards Using Statistics :

    http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com...small-forwards
    This is from a year ago. Anything from this year, or are you just speculating?

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Sorry that insulted your son Nick. I apologize. And numbers don't tell the whole story. You have to watch. Basketball talk is all speculating and anyone that doesn't think so is deluding themselves.



    That says more about you than me.

    Ok... Can you break it down in retard terms for me and my papa? What is the point your trying to make? To me (Simon Birch) you are just jabbering trying to sound smart.

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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Ok... Can you break it down in retard terms for me and my papa? What is the point your trying to make? To me (Simon Birch) you are just jabbering trying to sound smart.
    The character of Simon Birch actually had a normal intellect, but had stunted growth. Simon Birch would have understood what I was saying.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The character of Simon Birch actually had a normal intellect, but had stunted growth. Simon Birch would have understood what I was saying.
    If your so smart then you would of realized that I was using the Simon Birch reference in correlation with our banter; as in everything you say goes completely over my head.. I'm sure your great at talking with little people, isn't that what carnies do?

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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    If your so smart then you would of realized that I was using the Simon Birch reference in correlation with our banter; as in everything you say goes completely over my head.. I'm sure your great at talking with little people, isn't that what carnies do?
    You keep misusing the word `your'. It should be `you're'.

  18. #38
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Come now guys, let's not take off the gloves here. I believe this Hedo debate can be won without needing to reduce this to name calling... Why not focus on Hedo's lack of effort on defense, the fact that his rate of fouls increased this season, his defensive win share went from 4.4 the year prior to 0.8 and his defensive rating was 113, that's 8 points above his career average?

    Data Source: Basketball Reference

  19. #39
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    Welcome to Hedo's Horror Movie, Nick.

    In case of your post posses too many negatives about Turkoglu, you would not take that much reaction. Only one positive sentence towards him in this post is enough for taking attention of honey bees of this jungle. There is no any tolerance for him for sure. Its understandable in some ways. It was a terrible season from many aspects and Frustration over Raptors fan base is not coming from just previous year. It looks like a blow out year after many disappointment years. Yes, Hedo has taken bigger part from this jerks. May be a bit much from what he realy deserves. Whenever he tries to defend him self (just one case during regular season) or some one try to back him up, ppls call them "excuses". Some ppl went out of mind and accused him from variety ways (i.e: Apollos last post... accountability, honor, integrity, to be lier, bitching.. etc, in just one post). May be you will like to know, Apollo : At the beginning of famous sport tv show which Hedo requested his trade, his first words (in untranslated part) were about his own mistakes. He criticized himself from many ways. He accused himself for venting out to the media for his dis-comfortability of new role (as a veteran professional player he shouldn't have done this yes but you should also give him some credit, He came here from previous year Finals, and he was the big part of it, may be he expected a bigger role in here and it was understandable from my pov.) and he was sorry for his "Ball" comment too. He also accepted he tried to play his best but it was not enough. He said he could perform better no matter what situation he had faced. He repeated twice that he came to Toronto TO PLAY, not for laying down his contract. It just didn't worked (Chemistry issues ). Briefly, accountability was there, just like he did in post season media interview in Toronto. Yes may be Effort was not there all the time which i give credit to Apollos view ( biggest and rational blame towards hedo was his Effort in all games. But this situation was there in past at Orlando too. SVG was the difference. His love and hate relation with Hedo took them to the Finals.). His trade request has nothing to do with the City of Toronto. He said its a great city to live and ppls were so kind to him. He was just sad about Management and how they took the Night Club incidence. If your boss loose his credibility in your mind, you probably hesitate to work under him for next 4 years. Instead of live with my doubts in my mind, i also leaves there and prove myself in another company if its really necessary.

    Nick, You will understand Its too tire-full to defend yourself against Hedo biases and you will stop soon. I really appreciated for your fearless effort in this thread. It was so nice to read into your posts.

    Btw: I hope your sources are telling the truths and rumors comes true. I love Utahs' offensive and defensive sets as a basketball fan. Sounds great.
    Last edited by Vellassco; Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 06:00 PM.

  20. #40
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    Any one noticed? How was Celtic players effort during the regular season and how was at the playoffs? They were nearly loosing their 4th place to Bucks with their fluctuating efforts. They lost the ring for just 4 points, rite?.

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