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Thread: If Not Bosh, Then Who?

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    Default If Not Bosh, Then Who?

    I've been reading allot of articles lately about how Bosh isn't a centrepiece, including a sentiment from Arsenalist this morning, as well Jack Armstrong sounding skeptical about Bosh. Are you kidding me? Look at the championship teams over the last decade, which one had a single guy lead their team to victory? The Raps supporting cast has been laughable. Its mind boggling to me that you "haters" don't want one of the Raps all time greats to stick around. Its one of the most ignorant displays of loyalty I've ever seen! We should be trying to rally for this guy, and show our support much the same way Miami has for Wade, and countless cities have for Lebron.

    If not Bosh, then Who is going to take the reigns?

    24-10.8

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    Arsenalist was going on to say that Bosh is a sidekick, he is? I was under the belief that centrepiece(S) win championships. You have to combined 2, maybe 3 "centrepiece" players in order to compete at an elite level.

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    Bosh can't win alone, but no one can. Bosh just needs more help than guys like Kobe or LeBron. Up to this point, he hasn't had it.

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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    I've been reading allot of articles lately about how Bosh isn't a centrepiece, including a sentiment from Arsenalist this morning, as well Jack Armstrong sounding skeptical about Bosh. Are you kidding me? Look at the championship teams over the last decade, which one had a single guy lead their team to victory? The Raps supporting cast has been laughable. Its mind boggling to me that you "haters" don't want one of the Raps all time greats to stick around. Its one of the most ignorant displays of loyalty I've ever seen! We should be trying to rally for this guy, and show our support much the same way Miami has for Wade, and countless cities have for Lebron.

    If not Bosh, then Who is going to take the reigns?

    24-10.8
    I don't know if I would say that the supporting cast has been laughable. Miami took Oneal to try the same thing Toronto did, Dallas took Marion to try the same thing Toronto did, Cleveland took Moon AND Parker to try what Toronto did... you're telling me that these supposed potential contenders have laughable supporting casts too?

    Calling ANYONE a centerpiece is a silly notion to me. As cliched as it is, basketball is a team sport. What is a centerpiece? What is a role player? If a centerpiece cannot win a title without role players, then how are they centerpieces? What does "centerpiece" really mean? Star? Main attraction? Someone to sell tickets?
    It's about money

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    Raptors Republic Rookie sunndog's Avatar
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    Nick you're taking comments out of context. No one is saying that Bosh isn't a terrific player or that he hasn't performed in the past. Bosh has been a stud. There's no question of that. He gave us his 20-10 every night without fail and for that we can't fault him.
    The problem is though, that it's all he's give to this team. He hasn't been a vocal leader on the team, especially when the team really needed one. How many opportunities this season did Bosh have this season to step up and take control of HIS team. To ensure that the players around him were doing their jobs and playing defense etc. Bosh is the captain of this team and it's the captain's responsibility to ensure that everything in the locker room is running smoothly. It's his job to call out players when they aren't playing well.
    Beyond that, Bosh's defense is average at best, he's never been a true game changer in the same sense as Lebron, Wade, Kobe or any of the other true franchise players in the league and personally I think he lacks the passion to be that player.
    Regardless of your beliefs on Bosh, let's be honest. Is there any point in keeping him? He doesn't bring anything that's irreplaceable (e.g. passion, defense, leadership etc.). It'll be tough and take time, but we'll find a player to replace his double double. Point is, at this point the Raptors are making a decision for their future. You either roll the dice that Bosh can be the player we all desperately want him to be, OR the team blows it up and uses the pieces it has now to start building for a championship.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JalenRose5's Avatar
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    I definitely think we can build around Bosh. Tim Duncan won 3 championships with guys that were drafted in the second round, or late first round. I.e. Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and then just random guys. If Matt Bonner can win a ring, I think anything is possible. I know Bosh isn't as good as Tim Duncan...YET.

    If you have Bargnani, Turkoglu, and Calderon as your starters, each being an above average defensive liability, I think a senior girls high school team from zimbabwe has a better chance of winning.

    Colangelo has to man up. More and more he is making Rob Babcock Look good..

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    Do we have to pick a centrepiece now?

    Why not wait to see who rises to the top.

    IMO, the centrepiece should be a wing.

    Someone who can create their own shot.

    Not many PF in the history of the game that could do that.

    PF's are not ball-handlers.

    Does that mean Bosh is not a great player who can play a part in a championship team?

    Of course not.

    But quite frankly, if the clock ticking down and the Raps trailing by 1, I don't want the ball in a PF's hands!

    There is no reason why we need name a centrepiece at this juncture.

    Bosh needs to leave or if he stays, then Bargs must be traded.

    They cannot play together defensively.

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    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    I find it strange also that some people are even hoping he does a sign and trade, There are 30 teams and only so many Kobe, Lebron or Wade's to go around. Bosh is not in the same class but he is the best the Raps can hope for unless they strike gold in a draft. Will Bosh ever win a championship with the Raps? probably not, but I believe with the right cast he can make this team competitive and fun to watch and with 30 teams fighting for that 1 ring that is not a disappointing scenario.

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    Quote EarthJuice wrote: View Post
    Do we have to pick a centrepiece now?

    Why not wait to see who rises to the top.

    IMO, the centrepiece should be a wing.

    Someone who can create their own shot.

    Not many PF in the history of the game that could do that.

    PF's are not ball-handlers.

    Does that mean Bosh is not a great player who can play a part in a championship team?

    Of course not.

    But quite frankly, if the clock ticking down and the Raps trailing by 1, I don't want the ball in a PF's hands!

    There is no reason why we need name a centrepiece at this juncture.

    Bosh needs to leave or if he stays, then Bargs must be traded.

    They cannot play together defensively.
    You certainly like to hit return after your periods, don't you? I do agree with what you said, though.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    Quote EarthJuice wrote: View Post
    Do we have to pick a centrepiece now?

    Why not wait to see who rises to the top.

    IMO, the centrepiece should be a wing.

    Someone who can create their own shot.

    Not many PF in the history of the game that could do that.

    PF's are not ball-handlers.

    Does that mean Bosh is not a great player who can play a part in a championship team?

    Of course not.

    But quite frankly, if the clock ticking down and the Raps trailing by 1, I don't want the ball in a PF's hands!

    There is no reason why we need name a centrepiece at this juncture.

    Bosh needs to leave or if he stays, then Bargs must be traded.

    They cannot play together defensively.
    Who do you see as a reasonable acquisition at the C position who could offer the same type of offense that Bargnani offers? With as much potential as Bargnani still has, and who is young and healthy.
    It's about money

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    To be honest, I am ole school with C's and to a less extent, PF's. All I require from a center is rebounding, shotblocking, boxing out and >60% FT. They get their points on putbacks, but Job 1 is defense and being on the glass. I want my 10 plus reounds a game, a couple blocks would be nice. 10 pts a game. Im not complaining cuz Im not spending a lot of money on him.

    Someone like Okafor would be sufficient. Now I know he is overpaid and no allstar, but he is steady, and if he comes with Collison, he's my boy! Without Collison we could do better for the money.

    I think Aldrich could be that type of player too, and much cheaper.

    I expect a little more offensively from my PF, but he must be on the glass and altering shots like my C.

    My money goes to my PG and wings. They are there to create and score.

    I fear having Bargs as my goto guy when the clock is ticking down. He has what it takes to shoot game-winners (and he will), but he cannot be the guy the defense KNOWS is getting the ball everytime. You need wings and the PG to create those scoring opportunities.

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    Quote EarthJuice wrote: View Post
    To be honest, I am ole school with C's and to a less extent, PF's. All I require from a center is rebounding, shotblocking, boxing out and >60% FT. They get their points on putbacks, but Job 1 is defense and being on the glass. I want my 10 plus reounds a game, a couple blocks would be nice. 10 pts a game. Im not complaining cuz Im not spending a lot of money on him.

    Someone like Okafor would be sufficient. Now I know he is overpaid and no allstar, but he is steady, and if he comes with Collison, he's my boy! Without Collison we could do better for the money.

    I think Aldrich could be that type of player too, and much cheaper.

    I expect a little more offensively from my PF, but he must be on the glass and altering shots like my C.

    My money goes to my PG and wings. They are there to create and score.

    I fear having Bargs as my goto guy when the clock is ticking down. He has what it takes to shoot game-winners (and he will), but he cannot be the guy the defense KNOWS is getting the ball everytime. You need wings and the PG to create those scoring opportunities.
    Yeah, I think I would only want Okafor and Collison if we were shipping back Turkoglu and Reggie Evans or Marcus banks, which would never happen... in reality.
    It's about money

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    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    Of course, if there is a way to get Collison on his own, I'm sold!!!
    It's about money

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Vellassco's Avatar
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    None of the super-stars/stars can take a team to the Championship alone himself with supporting casts nowadays. i.e: Lebron, Wade, Dwight... etc. Even great Duo's cant do it himselfs, i.e: Willams-Boozer, CP3-West, Nash-Amare.. etc. Also, you can have full talented roster but again it may not take you there.

    In 7 Games series every game has its unique game plans and even 3th string at the bench can play fatal role in a specific games in those series.

    There are lots of factors:

    1- Coaching (including Assistant Coaches)
    2- Talented Players (having both Offensive/Defensive minds in one body)
    3- Balanced Roster (which can play against Athletic/Traditional/4out-1in teams)
    4- Friendship
    5- Leadership
    6- Commitment (team, management and city)
    7- Proper Management
    8- Complementary Roster
    9- Luckiness

    You guyz should stop looking at just one angle. Enough for all about "Bosh" things.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    The pragmatic reality is that unless BC can trade some of the dreck on this team for a complimentary all-star piece to CB, he's most likely gone. If Bosh leaves, this team is in rebuilding mode. The only way to build a championship team at that point is to be REALLY bad and acquire blue chip prospects. The worst thing Toronto could do is be mediocre.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    How have we not been in rebuilding mode already? We haven't made it past the first round of the playoffs in how long? What is different about rebuilding mode from the way the team looks now?
    It's about money

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    Quote philwill wrote: View Post
    I don't know if I would say that the supporting cast has been laughable. Miami took Oneal to try the same thing Toronto did, Dallas took Marion to try the same thing Toronto did, Cleveland took Moon AND Parker to try what Toronto did... you're telling me that these supposed potential contenders have laughable supporting casts too?

    Calling ANYONE a centerpiece is a silly notion to me. As cliched as it is, basketball is a team sport. What is a centerpiece? What is a role player? If a centerpiece cannot win a title without role players, then how are they centerpieces? What does "centerpiece" really mean? Star? Main attraction? Someone to sell tickets?
    Not one of those guys you mentioned had the capability to compliment Bosh's game in a way that could propel them to victory. You're right, I wouldn't exactly call these guys laughable though. You said that you hate the term centrepiece as it is a cliche, well not so much in my eyes. I would define centrepiece as a player who has the ability to put up all star numbers, as well as make the players around him better. This is evident in Bosh's game as he's been an all star the last few years, draws double teams, which SHOULD make those around him better. However, winning teams have 2 sometimes 3 players who do this.

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    Quote sunndog wrote: View Post
    Nick you're taking comments out of context. No one is saying that Bosh isn't a terrific player or that he hasn't performed in the past. Bosh has been a stud. There's no question of that. He gave us his 20-10 every night without fail and for that we can't fault him.
    The problem is though, that it's all he's give to this team. He hasn't been a vocal leader on the team, especially when the team really needed one. How many opportunities this season did Bosh have this season to step up and take control of HIS team. To ensure that the players around him were doing their jobs and playing defense etc. Bosh is the captain of this team and it's the captain's responsibility to ensure that everything in the locker room is running smoothly. It's his job to call out players when they aren't playing well.
    Beyond that, Bosh's defense is average at best, he's never been a true game changer in the same sense as Lebron, Wade, Kobe or any of the other true franchise players in the league and personally I think he lacks the passion to be that player.
    Regardless of your beliefs on Bosh, let's be honest. Is there any point in keeping him? He doesn't bring anything that's irreplaceable (e.g. passion, defense, leadership etc.). It'll be tough and take time, but we'll find a player to replace his double double. Point is, at this point the Raptors are making a decision for their future. You either roll the dice that Bosh can be the player we all desperately want him to be, OR the team blows it up and uses the pieces it has now to start building for a championship.
    How can you say Bosh wasn't a vocal leader? Its easy to be a fan and criticize a guy when your not there taking in the reality. If anything Bosh has been completely respectful of his teamates. Which is unreal, to be this modest after being an integral part of an Olympic gold medal team, all-star, and all time Raps best. How receptive do you think Bargnani is when getting an earful anyways? Your absolutely out of your mind if you think its up to Bosh to control this team. Thats what a coach is for. Bosh has showed patience, and NOT COMPLAINED AT ALL! How many other players around the league are like this!?

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    Quote EarthJuice wrote: View Post
    To be honest, I am ole school with C's and to a less extent, PF's. All I require from a center is rebounding, shotblocking, boxing out and >60% FT. They get their points on putbacks, but Job 1 is defense and being on the glass. I want my 10 plus reounds a game, a couple blocks would be nice. 10 pts a game. Im not complaining cuz Im not spending a lot of money on him.

    ...

    I expect a little more offensively from my PF, but he must be on the glass and altering shots like my C.

    ...
    Actually, historically, centers have been much better scorers than PFs. 6 of the top 10 scorers of all time are centers.

    Quote philwill wrote: View Post
    How have we not been in rebuilding mode already? We haven't made it past the first round of the playoffs in how long? What is different about rebuilding mode from the way the team looks now?
    You're mistaking losing for rebuilding. Rebuilding is admitting the team is not looking for short term success and to focus on the future. The team has not done that in....well, a very long time.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Actually, historically, centers have been much better scorers than PFs. 6 of the top 10 scorers of all time are centers.



    You're mistaking losing for rebuilding. Rebuilding is admitting the team is not looking for short term success and to focus on the future. The team has not done that in....well, a very long time.
    I'm not mistaking anything!

    When you add nine new faces in less than a year, how could you call that anything other than rebuilding?
    It's about money

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