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Thread: Proposal - Bargnani to Minnesota

  1. #21
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The chance of the Raptors getting a defensive and rebounding PF, a slashing SF who can defend and rebound and a ballhawking PG this summer makes me logically think that Bargnani will still be a horrible fit for the Raptors after this summer. Believing otherwise defies logic.
    Not as difficult as you may think. I do it all the time in whatever version of NBA 2K is out. But you know what, he rebounds so much better in that game-world, he doesn't really need the help all that much.

  2. #22
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    Of course I wasn't thinking nearly as logically as you! I understand your right to hate and love whoever you like, however to say that the reason he's a horrible fit is because you alone pretty much know exactly what BC is going to do and get is pretty absurd. You have no idea what will happen in three weeks, and therefore have no idea if Bargs is a horrible fit. What if they get a rebounding defensive big who Andrea compliments nicely. What if they get a PG that actually knows how to play the pick and roll, or even more incredible what if they shoot for the stars and get two guards and a wing that can stay in front of their man most nights so the two bigs do not always have to play defense for the?

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    Quote jrdyck wrote: View Post
    Ricky Rubio's 2009/10 Euroleague Stats:
    21 mpg
    6.8 ppg
    2.9 rebs
    4.1 asts
    2.1 TOs
    37% FG
    36% 3PT
    89% FT

    What's so great about him anyway? I don't care if he's 19 years old, a 5th overall pick should be tearing it up in Europe...
    Actually NO ONE really tears it up in the Euroleague, it's not like the NBA with isolations, shots early in the shot clock, etc. It's a slower paced game, more hand-checking allowed, and I don't think there are many players that play more than half the game. take a look at Brandon Jennings' numbers at Roma.

    What's great about Rubio is mainly his vision and basketball IQ. He's quick enough to get by most guards and he's gotten better at finishing at the rim. Oh and he started for Spain in the Gold medal game in the Olympics and played very well...as an 18 year old! He's been playing against professional player since he was 15. I think he'll be just fine in the NBA.

  4. #24
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    Quote Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    you don't need excuses when you put up 17 and 6 as the teams third or fourth option. What other teams have a guy in that role with that average?? Many of the guys the haters want instead of Bargnani are way inferior to him. That's hate.
    At 22.3%, Bargnani had the second highest usage of the team's regular minute guys, higher than Turk, Jack, Calderon, etc. He was clearly the team's second option on offense and had plenty of opportunities. It's just a shame he couldn't make the most of them.

    The 6 rebounds is better left unmentioned unless you're trying to counter your own piss poor argument.

  5. #25
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    You may be right about the shots and you might not because I don't have the patience to look it all up now, but there are many players on the teams you mention making way more than Bargnani without better numbers.
    Quixotic I'm not saying 6 reboundsis anything to brag about, I'm saying not many of the guys in his position necessarily average more than that. His rebounding numbers will improve this year as will the rest of his game.

  6. #26
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Get another first round pick from them and I would do it in a heartbeat.
    Quote santimo wrote: View Post
    I don't think Minnesota would give up a top 5 pick in Rubio PLUS another 1st round pick for Bargs. So it would probably have to be Rubio and some filler for Bargs. Personally, I like Rubio enough that I would make that trade.
    I could see asking for the 23rd pick or maybe a 2nd round pick. The Timberwolves do have enough cap room to not trade anything else back, and they don't have much to send back. Gomes is probably their most expendable contract.

    Quote jrdyck wrote: View Post
    Ricky Rubio's 2009/10 Euroleague Stats:
    21 mpg
    6.8 ppg
    2.9 rebs
    4.1 asts
    2.1 TOs
    37% FG
    36% 3PT
    89% FT

    What's so great about him anyway? I don't care if he's 19 years old, a 5th overall pick should be tearing it up in Europe...
    European stats are always misleading. And you didn't mention the most important stat: One Euroleague Championship. Spend enough time watching him and you see he's a special player.

  7. #27
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    Quote Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    You may be right about the shots and you might not because I don't have the patience to look it all up now, but there are many players on the teams you mention making way more than Bargnani without better numbers.
    Quixotic I'm not saying 6 reboundsis anything to brag about, I'm saying not many of the guys in his position necessarily average more than that. His rebounding numbers will improve this year as will the rest of his game.
    Nope, you fail. Thanks for coming out though.

  8. #28
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    Quote Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    [...] however to say that the reason he's a horrible fit is because you alone pretty much know exactly what BC is going to do and get is pretty absurd. You have no idea what will happen in three weeks, and therefore have no idea if Bargs is a horrible fit. What if [...] What if [...]
    Um, his horrible fit assessment was basically a conditional statement. In plain English: if they could get A, B and C, he'd be a good fit, but since the chance of that is low, he's most likely going to be a bad fit. No mind-reading there.

    How can you possibly argue with that kind of statement. Even the biggest *logical* Bargnani supporters all would agree that when you have a big who tends to play away from the basket to draw the opposing bigs out, you need other players on your team to compensate. Or when you have a big who rebounds poorly, you need your wings and guards to step it up. Not neuroscience here.

  9. #29
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    Quote Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    Quixotic I'm not saying 6 reboundsis anything to brag about, I'm saying not many of the guys in his position necessarily average more than that. His rebounding numbers will improve this year as will the rest of his game.
    Are you serious? *Speechless* If not many centers playing major minutes average more than that per minute, please find me even five that don't. Should be easy if not many average more, right?

    Don't worry, I don't expect you to do it. I do expect you to say "I don't have the time or patience to look it up so there may be or there might not be; either way, I'm still right." =P

  10. #30
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    Quote Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    You may be right about the shots and you might not because I don't have the patience to look it all up now, but there are many players on the teams you mention making way more than Bargnani without better numbers.
    Quixotic I'm not saying 6 reboundsis anything to brag about, I'm saying not many of the guys in his position necessarily average more than that. His rebounding numbers will improve this year as will the rest of his game.
    If you don't know, then what are you basing your argument on? And yes, there are players that are making more money than Bargnani that take fewer shots, but that's not how players are judged. Those players who make more money generally are much better at other aspects of the game, like rebounding, defending, passing etc.

    And most 7 footers who play 35 mpg average far more than 6 rebounds per game. He was 79th in the league in rebounding per minute only involving players that grabbed at least 800 rebounds or played at least 70 games. 79th!!!! There is simply no excuse at all for how poor a rebounder he is. None.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Get it into your thick skull that Bargnani will not be traded this season. I think of all the vague stuff that BC's been telling the media, only one thing is clear. Bargnani is untouchable.

    If they really wanted to retain Bosh ever since, they wouldve traded Bargnani. We all know that he's sort of the "heir" to Bosh's throne, if he gets traded, its like saying to Bosh, this is forever your team. But have the Raps done that, nope. They want to keep Bosh but not the expense of letting Bargnani go. There's not even a spec of gossip circling around re: Bargnani being discussed in a trade. Doesnt anybody notice this but me? The whole Raps team is being discussed, Wright, POB, Rasho are pretty much goners due to expired contracts, Banks and Evans might be traded due to expiring contracts, Belinelli could be packaged with Turk or even Bosh, Jack vs. Jose, re-sign Amir. The only 2 players who have never been discussed are DD and Bargs. Because theyre not going any-fucking-where.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Wed Jun 23rd, 2010 at 07:16 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quixotic I dont really compare him to many centers because he's playing out of position since we already had a stat padder in his normal position. I'm comparing him to other forwards. Still as a scoring option he ranks right up there behind some of the best centers.
    Also the neuroscience comment says what? that you are smarter...give me a break!! You're entitled to your views as I am mine, but don't imply I'm inferior in intillect to you or Timmy. I know what he was saying, however I was implying he has no idea what might come of the next few weeks, nor how the players we actually have next year will respond to a different team, with a tougher assistant coach. You also don't have to be a nano biotechnologist to get that either!!

  13. #33
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    Sooo anyways.....I'm hearing that these are reasonable deals. Whether or not Minnesota bites is another thing, but I would think they might be tempted by one of them. Personally, I want the deal for Rubio, but would be happy with any of them.

  14. #34
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Get it into your thick skull that Bargnani will not be traded this season. I think of all the vague stuff that BC's been telling the media, only one thing is clear. Bargnani is untouchable.
    Well, first of all, I don't think he's untouchable, I just think it would take a special deal for Colangelo to be tempted. Secondly, you do realize these are not predictions, right? I'm not predicting these would happen, just wishing they would. I don't believe that Colangelo reads anything in this forum, or even hears about it. I am simply throwing ideas out there that I think would be good for the team.

    Also, this is the first Bargnani trade proposal I have ever suggested on here, as far as I know, so I'm not sure where the frustration comes from. Maybe spending some time "by yourself" might be an idea to relieve some stress.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    If you don't know, then what are you basing your argument on? And yes, there are players that are making more money than Bargnani that take fewer shots, but that's not how players are judged. Those players who make more money generally are much better at other aspects of the game, like rebounding, defending, passing etc.

    And most 7 footers who play 35 mpg average far more than 6 rebounds per game. He was 79th in the league in rebounding per minute only involving players that grabbed at least 800 rebounds or played at least 70 games. 79th!!!! There is simply no excuse at all for how poor a rebounder he is. None.
    Sorry but your argument that just because he is a 7 footer that means he has to rebound is a bit iffy. I think in the NBA today, players getting stuck in one position is pretty much an abomination. Players are more like hybrids now, most are trained in all aspects of the game, and when they start developing, the skills that come out more are developed more. Bargnani's case, all his life in the Euroleague he was developed as a scorer, with other guys doing the dirty work. Like i said before, you draft players for what they can do, not for what you want to turn them into. you cant expect a scorer to get defensive after years and years of playing as a scorer. you can train him, if he absorbs it then good, if not then that what you should expect anyways. same with other jobs, you work as a janitor since 12 then when you turn 25 you get trained in IT. the guy who's been in IT since he was 18 will probably beat you in every IT aspect, but you can probably beat him if you absorb more training later on. jameer nelson is a PG. he's height is what a PG should be. but how many asts does he average compared to nash? or paul? but despite nelson's low ast ave, he was still kicking ass in the playoffs. Get it?

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Well, first of all, I don't think he's untouchable, I just think it would take a special deal for Colangelo to be tempted. Secondly, you do realize these are not predictions, right? I'm not predicting these would happen, just wishing they would. I don't believe that Colangelo reads anything in this forum, or even hears about it. I am simply throwing ideas out there that I think would be good for the team.

    Also, this is the first Bargnani trade proposal I have ever suggested on here, as far as I know, so I'm not sure where the frustration comes from. Maybe spending some time "by yourself" might be an idea to relieve some stress.
    hahaha sorry man, this heat is really fucking killing me. and the drive home was terrible. as soon as i read you message, it gave me the perfect reason to vent. hahaha. mah bad.

  17. #37
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Get it into your thick skull that Bargnani will not be traded this season. I think of all the vague stuff that BC's been telling the media, only one thing is clear. Bargnani is untouchable.

    If they really wanted to retain Bosh ever since, they wouldve traded Bargnani. We all know that he's sort of the "heir" to Bosh's throne, if he gets traded, its like saying to Bosh, this is forever your team. But have the Raps done that, nope. They want to keep Bosh but not the expense of letting Bargnani go. There's not even a spec of gossip circling around re: Bargnani being discussed in a trade. Doesnt anybody notice this but me? The whole Raps team is being discussed, Wright, POB, Rasho are pretty much goners due to expired contracts, Banks and Evans might be traded due to expiring contracts, Belinelli could be packaged with Turk or even Bosh, Jack vs. Jose, re-sign Amir. The only 2 players who have never been discussed are DD and Bargs. Because theyre not going any-fucking-where.
    Actually, if anything is true, it's that BC will trade *anyone* for the right price. There's a big difference between untouchable and not having received a good enough offer. Hell, even Kobe or LBJ could be traded if the right package came along.

    And this part here -- "The only 2 players who have never been discussed are DD and Bargs. Because theyre not going any-fucking-where." -- is purely in your (revisionist?) head. It also helps that the team has only four contracts guaranteed beyond 2010/2011 and a very likely 5th in a rookie scale contract, with one of the four essentially demanding a trade, and with the GM actually discussing the possibility of trading one of Jack/Calderon. Thank you Captain Obvious, but it doesn't mean DeRozan and Bargnani are safe.

  18. #38
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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    Actually, if anything is true, it's that BC will trade *anyone* for the right price. There's a big difference between untouchable and not having received a good enough offer. Hell, even Kobe or LBJ could be traded if the right package came along.

    And this part here -- "The only 2 players who have never been discussed are DD and Bargs. Because theyre not going any-fucking-where." -- is purely in your (revisionist?) head. It also helps that the team has only four contracts guaranteed beyond 2010/2011 and a very likely 5th in a rookie scale contract, with one of the four essentially demanding a trade, and with the GM actually discussing the possibility of trading one of Jack/Calderon. Thank you Captain Obvious, but it doesn't mean DeRozan and Bargnani are safe.
    They aren't untouchable but the likely hood of them being traded is very slim. Plus, I love watching DDR fly over the rim and Bargnani always looking clueless.

  19. #39
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Sorry but your argument that just because he is a 7 footer that means he has to rebound is a bit iffy. I think in the NBA today, players getting stuck in one position is pretty much an abomination. Players are more like hybrids now, most are trained in all aspects of the game, and when they start developing, the skills that come out more are developed more.
    What are you even trying to say? To take it easy on Bargnani because he really only does a couple things decent to well? He's a very bad rebounder. That's just the way it is. He hurts the team on the glass just being out there. It doesn't matter if he was a PG or a C. His motor and drive for the ball are atrocious, his defensive awareness is poor, and his scoring isn't quite good enough to overcompensate. He is an average NBA player at best.

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    I would never try to acquire Rubio until he is actually in the NBA and I certainly wouldn't trade our second best player for him when he could just decide he likes Europe better. I wouldn't mind a trade for the fourth pick and someone else, or if we could trade bargs and the 13th for Love and the fourth, that would be good.
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