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Thread: BC Said On The Presser "It Will Be Interesting To See Amir and Davis Together

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default BC Said On The Presser "It Will Be Interesting To See Amir and Davis Together

    By my recollection he spent well over 30 seconds and almost a full minute out of about 11 minutes talking about

    1. Johnson returning
    2. How it will be interesting to see him and Davis together on the court and if it will work
    3. That the league is going to more athletic big men like Johnson and Davis.

    Interesting how this subject which seems near and dear to BC's basketball thinking in drafting Davis and the signing of Johnson has been ignored by everyone.

    I think if BC had mentioned Bargnani and Davis together that there would already be at least a handful of threads on the subject and well over 50 posts to those threads.

    Yes BC is correct in my opinion. It will be interesting, very interesting to see Johnson and Davis on the court together. My guess is that when this happens which I expect to see a lot of if Bosh doesn't return, that Raptors opponents will have a very difficult time scoring against the Raptors. For sure the Raptors will outscore them during the majority of these times that Johnson and Davis are on the court together starting after the all-star break. I will give them about 50 regular season games to get acclimated to one another
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    Amir and Davis are going to be.....wait for it....the most well rounded front court in raptor franchise history. Both guys play defense, rebound, run the floor, play defense, did I say defense twice? Guards and wings are supposed to score, not big men.

    Honestly what happens with Bargs now. I still like him and think he is a valuable player in this league, but I don't think you can start him and Davis together and I don't think he should come off the bench. I fully support the Amir/Bargs pairing, but if the raps aren't contending next year for anything other than the 8th seed, don't you want to throw Davis out to the wolves and let him get some reps.

    I guess ideally you run the 3 man bigs rotation in a similar fashion to the lakers with Bynum, Gasol and Odom. It's safe to assume that all three will find themselves in foul trouble adjusting to thier new roles. It will be interesting to see what big man combination gels the quickest, I always thought Bargs tried to work with Bosh, but they never really clicked. I don't recall whether Bargs and Amir meshed in thier short stint together.

    If the raps can pry away Collison or Lawson, they are legitimately back on the upswing.

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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    Both guys play defense, rebound, run the floor, play defense, did I say defense twice? Guards and wings are supposed to score, not big men.
    I'm glad to get two solid defensive picks in the draft, but I can't help thinking that our biggest problems exist at the perimeter. It's easy to say that the Raps need to replace the gap Bosh leaves, but even if they do it doesn't change the fact that Bosh was not NEARLY the weak point of this team.

    Demar has potential but is young. Weems, Calderon and Jack are solid, but not spectacular. Turk is... well... Turk.

    Losing Bosh will mean a downgrade at the position, and I sincerely hope that Davis works hard enough that it won't be a SIGNIFICANT downgrade... but we still need to IMPROVE somewhere, and we simply haven't done that yet.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    I think if BC had mentioned Bargnani and Davis together that there would already be at least a handful of threads on the subject and well over 50 posts to those threads.

    Yes BC is correct in my opinion. It will be interesting, very interesting to see Johnson and Davis on the court together. My guess is that when this happens which I expect to see a lot of if Bosh doesn't return, that Raptors opponents will have a very difficult time scoring against the Raptors. For sure the Raptors will outscore them during the majority of these times that Johnson and Davis are on the court together starting after the all-star break. I will give them about 50 regular season games to get acclimated to one another
    Also quite interesting to note he did not mention Bargs and Davis together. Is Bargs traded waiting for July 1 announcement? Trade fodder to get a PG or proper SF? We shall see.

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Also quite interesting to note he did not mention Bargs and Davis together. Is Bargs traded waiting for July 1 announcement? Trade fodder to get a PG or proper SF? We shall see.
    Good point. I would have mentioned it but I didn't want to rustle the feathers today of the Bargnani faithful at Raptors Republic
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    I've scoured the trade machine for suitable trades involving Bargs and couldn't think of anything reasonable. He just doesn't seem to fit with anyone out there.

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    the reason it's interesting to see what happens when Johnson and Davis play together is because they are both young, athletic, defensive PF's who can play Center, and who shoot at a high percentage. Bargs and Davis is less interesting because that's more your standard Center/PF set up. Having two players so similar at the 4 and 5 is actually very interesting.

    Imagine, if you will, having 2 Amir Johnsons on the floor and you get the idea. If they can both put on 10 pounds or so...

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    Who would play center if Bargs were traded?

    Which one of our 6'8"-6'9" PFs?
    It's about money

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    Haven't the raps also acquired the ideal big men to play alongside Bargs or in a more hypothetical world Bosh. Having two athletic big defensive minded big men who can also score on PnR's is very enticing, but the main problem with the Bosh/Bargs pairing is that they were too similar.

    I'd like to give Bargs some time with a defensive big and see how the interior defense fairs before shipping him out altogether. The guy can score like few guys can and that does get overlooked because of his tendency to drift through the other facets of the game.

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    Bargs and Expiring deals for Okafor and Collison as been mentioned before and given I am all for that now that the direction we're moving in is a bit clearer.I think Banks and/or Evans would work, it will open up some more cap space for NO next year and give them a pick and roll nightmare in Paul and Bargs. I still would like to keep Bargs as our and try him as our primary scorer, but I think Collison and Okafor fit the direction we are going better.

    On offense, Bargs was the perfect compliment to Bosh. Bargs opened up space for Bosh to operate in the high and low post by pulling a big out to the line and the opposing team couldn't sag off of him because he was such a good shooter. If you put a more traditional center in with Bosh, you'd have the same issues you did with JO in terms of both of them trying to play in the same area of the court all the time. Defensively is another story, but those two are about as perfect an offensive front court as you'll ever see.
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    Quote philwill wrote: View Post
    Who would play center if Bargs were traded?

    Which one of our 6'8"-6'9" PFs?
    Davis is a shade under 6'10 so ill says hes 6'10
    Johnson's height says 6'9 but thats probably when he came out of high school
    hes probably closer to 6'11 than 6'9

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    [QUOTE=hateslosing;22517]Bargs and Expiring deals for Okafor and Collison as been mentioned before and given I am all for that now that the direction we're moving in is a bit clearer.I think Banks and/or Evans would work, it will open up some more cap space for NO next year and give them a pick and roll nightmare in Paul and Bargs. I still would like to keep Bargs as our and try him as our primary scorer, but I think Collison and Okafor fit the direction we are going better.

    Or how about S&T Bosh for Okafor and Collison? Just thinking about it now Bosh would probably be happy playing with Chris Paul, perhaps feel like he is the man (even though he wouldn't be really), and we get a solid centre to help Alabi the time to develop, and a PG that could stick for yrs. We would probably have to take another crap contract (Posey straight in - don't like this or Peja with an expiring and we include a Calderon/Banks or Davis) in there to make it work. Then all we need to do is lose Turk and gain a solid SF.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Bargs and Expiring deals for Okafor and Collison as been mentioned before and given I am all for that now that the direction we're moving in is a bit clearer.I think Banks and/or Evans would work, it will open up some more cap space for NO next year and give them a pick and roll nightmare in Paul and Bargs. I still would like to keep Bargs as our and try him as our primary scorer, but I think Collison and Okafor fit the direction we are going better.

    On offense, Bargs was the perfect compliment to Bosh. Bargs opened up space for Bosh to operate in the high and low post by pulling a big out to the line and the opposing team couldn't sag off of him because he was such a good shooter. If you put a more traditional center in with Bosh, you'd have the same issues you did with JO in terms of both of them trying to play in the same area of the court all the time. Defensively is another story, but those two are about as perfect an offensive front court as you'll ever see.
    I agree with that trade and think it would be the most realistic in terms of our young core I think Bargnani is the first piece I would consider trading but I remember parts of last season when I was thinking thank god we didnt trade bargnani cuz he had some really good stretches of games when he was rebounding but euros think more about points and American players understand the importance of rebounding and protecting the paint thats the difference

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    Quote FromTOtoVAN wrote: View Post
    but euros think more about points and American players understand the importance of rebounding and protecting the paint thats the difference
    Wow, will everyone stop reiterating the same unthinking stereotypes? Blanket statements are always wrong (do you like my blanket statement here?).

    (As an aside, what nationality was the player that shot at his own net so he could record a triple-double?)

    It's crazy how many people feel the need to include nation of origin to argue their points. Which of the following is a better argument?

    "We need to get rid of all the Euros on our team"
    vs
    "We need to get rid of all the players on our team who aren't committed to playing defense, boxing out, and all the other little things"

    Okay, mine is longer, but the problem on our team extends past just the Euros, unless you think a team like this (http://basketballreference.com/teams...R&lg=n&yr=2002) would actually be an upgrade.

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    Quote geebee wrote: View Post
    Losing Bosh will mean a downgrade at the position, and I sincerely hope that Davis works hard enough that it won't be a SIGNIFICANT downgrade... but we still need to IMPROVE somewhere, and we simply haven't done that yet.
    I think it's safe to say next year's team will lose more than this year if/when we lose Bosh. Davis in his sophomore year was defensively ahead of Bosh in his freshman year, but Bosh was by far more well-rounded on the offensive end. You can't really expect Davis to step in perform only a little below a 7-year veteran who was ahead of Davis to begin with. What you can expect is for him to give a better defensive effort, and those little things will make the Raptors hopefully worth watching.

    As for improving, I know this won't result in an improvement in wins, but if we can unload Turkoglu and continue forming a good, young nucleus to go with Davis, DeRozan, Weems and hopefully Amir Johnson and Alabi, that in itself will be an improvement. Teams like OKC benefited greatly yesterday from being under the cap, and they're not a shabby team either. We can always hope that if we play it smart, Durant might want to come to his favorite team when he becomes a FA.

    It's only worth spending into the luxury tax if the resulting team is an actual championship contender. Being in the tax and being mediocre for the foreseeable future is a bad, bad idea.

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    I'm very happy that Colangelo is talking this early about Amir on the team. I wasn't that crazy about the pick when it happened because I felt that Davis replicated what Amir had been bringing us and there wouldn't be room for both.

    Could the Raptors play Bargs, Davis and Amir at the same time? Bargs could play the 3 on offense and Amir and Davis in the paint. And on defense you have Amir guarding the 3 (pretty sure they tried it a couple of times last season).

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    Quote philwill wrote: View Post
    Who would play center if Bargs were traded?

    Which one of our 6'8"-6'9" PFs?
    Who is our 6'8 PF? And BTW, even though I agree it might be a better idea since shoes can always be changed (compare Davis' shoes giving him only 0.75" additional height to Whiteside's flip-flops giving him 1.00" additional height and Aldrich's shoes giving him 2.00" additional height), nobody (except maybe the Raptors) lists players' measurements without shoes.

    Davis is 6'9" barefoot (compare that to Aldrich's 6'9" and Udoh's and Favors' 6'8.75"), but he will be considered to be 6'10" with shoes and is no more undersized than any of the other PFs in the draft. Nobody really considers Boozer to be undersized at the 4, and yet he's over an inch shorter than Davis barefoot. Amare is half an inch shorter, as well. Amir is a good 6'11" in shoes as well.

    (Interestingly, Toronto is one of the few teams that undersizes their big men in listings. Bosh was listed at 6'10" when he was drafted, yet if we follow the standard in using shoes in the measurement, he was a good 6'11.5" so either 6'11" or 7'0" would have been more accurate. Same goes for Bargnani, who was 7'0" without shoes when drafted, and should be listed as a good 7'1" with shoes.)

    Davis will not be playing the 5 unless he adds strength as well as grows another inch, but it doesn't mean if Bargnani is traded we suddenly are helpless without someone to play the 5. If Bargnani can be traded, we can certainly acquire a 5 back somewhere as well.

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    Quote hilfgott wrote: View Post
    Could the Raptors play Bargs, Davis and Amir at the same time? Bargs could play the 3 on offense and Amir and Davis in the paint. And on defense you have Amir guarding the 3 (pretty sure they tried it a couple of times last season).
    Not really that good an idea (though it would certainly do wonders for Bargnani's WP48 numbers so people can get off his back on that one finally)? They certainly couldn't do that all the time, only with some select opposing 3s (the slower variety). Which is why there's no point worrying about how Davis and Johnson will fit together, especially when Amir hasn't been able to average more than 24 minutes per game, given his foul rate. There will be plenty of minutes to go around.

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Also quite interesting to note he did not mention Bargs and Davis together. Is Bargs traded waiting for July 1 announcement? Trade fodder to get a PG or proper SF? We shall see.
    i wouldn't mind getting garcia from sac town for hedo.

    bargnani who would we trade to to get a starting pg? washington...?!
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Defensively is another story, but those two are about as perfect an offensive front court as you'll ever see.
    They were a good, not great, pairing. If Bargnani had figured out how to rebound offensively and consistently punish smaller quicker matchups in the post, they would have been devastating.

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