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Thread: Did The Bobcats Offer To T.Thomas Raise Amir's Asking Price?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default Did The Bobcats Offer To T.Thomas Raise Amir's Asking Price?

    The Bobcats have made a one-year, $6.2 million qualifying offer to Tyrus Thomas, making him a restricted free agent. about 3 hours ago via web
    http://twitter.com/DimeMag

    Here are the post all-star basic numbers comparison
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Thomas on left and Johnson on right

    Games------27----------30
    MPG---------22----------19
    PPG---------10-----------8
    FG%---------45%---------66%
    FT%---------72%---------76%
    ORBPG------1.5---------1.9
    DRBPG------4.7---------3.1
    TRBPG------6.2---------5.0
    APG---------0.9---------0.9
    SPG---------1.0---------0.4
    BPG---------1.5---------1.0
    PFPG--------2.6---------3.0

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...2qBLgYRQZWPaB4

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...2qBLgYRQY9PaB4

    So Thomas put up slightly better basic numbers per game in about 15% more minutes per game

    Lets now look at some advanced stats (1)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    PER---------17.1--------16.7
    TS%----------50%--------64%
    eFG%--------44%--------62%
    ORB%--------8.8%-------12.9%
    DRB%--------24.7%------19.1%
    TRB%--------16.9%------16.1%
    TOV%--------13.7%------13.6%
    USG%--------25.1%------14.5%
    ORtg----------98----------124
    DRtg----------96----------110
    NetRtg-------+2----------+14
    WS------------2.6----------4.5
    WS/48--------.103--------.150


    (1) Advanced stats for Thomas reflect only those numbers when he was a member of the Bobcats except WS and WS/48 which are total number for the year. His WS/48 is a simple ave of his WS/48 from when he was with the Bulls and the Bobcats

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...thomaty01.html

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...johnsam01.html

    So when looking at these advanced stats Johnson was clearly better in shooting percentage, net offense/defense rating, Win Shares earned and WS/48. Johnson had significantly superior numbers in the most important advanced stats as shown above.

    Now from BasketballValue.com

    Numbers in bracket are negative
    One year plus/minus-----------(2.41)-------------3.16
    1 yr overall unadj rating-------(1.17)-------------6.79
    1 yr unadj off rating------------(4.47)------------(1.45)
    1 yr unadj def rating------------3.30--------------8.25

    http://basketballvalue.com/teamplaye...=DESC&team=CHA

    http://basketballvalue.com/teamplaye...-2010&team=TOR

    So according to BasketballValue.com Johnson had significantly better numbers in all of the above important categories.

    Keep in mind that both players came off of the bench.

    From the above basic numbers, with the exception of field goal percentage in which Johnson came out way ahead, both Thomas and Johnson were pretty close with Thomas having a slight advantage mostly due to his playing 15% more minutes per game.

    With respect to the key advanced numbers Johnson's numbers are clearly significantly superior across the board. So if the Bobcats are now offering Thomas $6.2 million maybe Johnson should be getting at least that much!
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 10:23 PM.
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    What would Amir's asking price likely have been BEFORE this offer was made to Thomas? What other players in the league might be considered comparable to these two and what are their numbers like?

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    Quote geebee wrote: View Post
    What would Amir's asking price likely have been BEFORE this offer was made to Thomas? What other players in the league might be considered comparable to these two and what are their numbers like?
    The consensus on the board was between $3.5 and $4.5 million for 2010-11. He made $3.7 million in 2009-10
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    The consensus on the board was between $3.5 and $4.5 million for 2010-11. He made $3.7 million in 2009-10
    I'd probably say on the higher end of that spectrum, but the qualifying offer to Thomas shouldn't matter too much.

    1) The QO was 6.2 mil because of where Thomas was drafted.
    2) Because it is just a QO for one year, it should have little effect on a multi-year offer to Amir.
    3) I think most NBA minds would agree that Thomas has a higher ceiling than Amir, and thus part of that $6.2 mil is for potential.

    I'm sure Amir's agent, if he's competent at all, will try to use the $6.2 mil number to leverage BC, but I think or am hoping that BC has enough sense not to overpay if this team does intend to rebuild rather than retool. I honestly don't think we should pay anything higher than 5 mil base salary for Amir next year.

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    can someone plz tell me how to create a thread? I have some interesting ideas that i would like to share..

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    Very interesting ....
    Only $6.2 million. I think Raptors should make an offer to him for slightly above that.
    If Thomas going to get paid 6.2 then Amir should not get paied more than $5 million
    Last edited by Raptor4Ever; Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 11:54 PM.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    The consensus on the board was between $3.5 and $4.5 million for 2010-11.
    Where did these numbers come from? Amir? Amir's agent? Colangelo?

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    hellooo

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    Quote BomKeyzi wrote: View Post
    Where did these numbers come from? Amir? Amir's agent? Colangelo?
    It was the consensus of members who posted on a previous thread on Raptors Republic that discussed how much Johnson might be worth.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Quote quixotic wrote: View Post
    3) i think most nba minds would agree that thomas has a higher ceiling than amir, and thus part of that $6.2 mil is for potential.
    Thomas and Johnson have both been in the NBA 5 years.

    Career numbers per 36 minutes
    -------------------------------------
    Thomas on left and Johnson on Right

    Points---------------14.2---------11.1
    Rebounds------------9.2----------9.9

    FG%----------------- 45%----------60%
    Offensive Rating---100----------121
    Defensive Rating---100----------105
    Net Rating-------------0------------16
    Win Share/48------.109---------.159

    If Thomas has a higher upside than Johnson he sure hasn't shown it in his first five years in the league. What is he waiting for?

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...johnsam01.html
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 12:08 AM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Yo budha u have been replying alot cant u atleast explain how to make a thread/post new topic?

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    Quote Raptors wrote: View Post
    hellooo
    Lets see if i can help you.
    Lets create a thread in Everything Raptors section of the forum.

    1) Click on the Everything Raptors on the top of this page :

    Raptors Republic Forums > Raptors Republic Forums > Everything Raptors >

    2) On the left hand side of the screen, you will see a button called New Thread, it is grey, click on that.

    3) you will basically will be prompt to a screen that allows you to cerate a thread.

    Lets see if that works for you

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    Quote Raptors wrote: View Post
    Yo budha u have been replying alot cant u atleast explain how to make a thread/post new topic?
    It was answered by Tim. Sorry I didn't respond to your original question.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    It was the consensus of members who posted on a previous thread on Raptors Republic that discussed how much Johnson might be worth.
    If Bosh walks Amir becomes much more valuable. A Bosh sign n trade would have to bring back a far better bigman than Amir to justify only offering a $800,000 raise to a promising young bigman that knows he's highly regarded and needed by the team. Such a low ball offer could seriously backfire on the Raptors. I agree not to overpay, but this could easily turn into a bidding war with another team.

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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Lets see if i can help you.
    Lets create a thread in Everything Raptors section of the forum.

    1) Click on the Everything Raptors on the top of this page :

    Raptors Republic Forums > Raptors Republic Forums > Everything Raptors >

    2) On the left hand side of the screen, you will see a button called New Thread, it is grey, click on that.

    3) you will basically will be prompt to a screen that allows you to cerate a thread.

    Lets see if that works for you
    Expertly explained but let me add one thing.

    It is important to match the topic of your thread with the specific forum that you are creating it in. For example if you want to create a thread about something having to do with the Raptors then start that thread under "Everything Raptors" You do this by making sure that you are in the group of threads entitled "Everything Raptors"

    If you want to create a thread about another NBA team or about the NBA in general, for example you want to create a thread about the officiating, then you need to be in the group of threads entitled "Let's NBA". You do this by first clicking on "Raptors Republic Forums" and then clicking on "Lets NBA" Then create your thread just as you would if you were in "Everything Raptors"
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Thomas and Johnson have both been in the NBA 5 years.

    Career numbers per 36 minutes
    -------------------------------------
    Thomas on left and Johnson on Right

    Points---------------14.2---------11.1
    Rebounds------------9.2----------9.9

    FG%----------------- 45%----------60%
    Offensive Rating---100----------121
    Defensive Rating---100----------105
    Net Rating-------------0------------16
    Win Share/48------.109---------.159

    If Thomas has a higher upside than Johnson he sure hasn't shown it in his first five years in the league. What is he waiting for?

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...johnsam01.html
    Well, yeah, most of the top picks from that draft aside from Boy and *maybe* Aldridge have been major disappointments for each team (at least compared to how top picks from other drafts have turned out).

    Thomas was drafted based totally on upside. I think people expected him to be the next Ben Wallace. Whether or not he actually will achieve that upside, who knows. You could also look at it as Amir Johnson at almost his best (last year was probably the high point of his career, though I might be wrong here, I didn't follow him with the Pistons) versus Thomas at still the lowest part of his potential, since he hasn't really done much since joining the league. Given that I actually know what Amir can give us, I'd of course pick him over Thomas, or whoever is cheaper.

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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Lets see if i can help you.
    Lets create a thread in Everything Raptors section of the forum.

    1) Click on the Everything Raptors on the top of this page :

    Raptors Republic Forums > Raptors Republic Forums > Everything Raptors >

    2) On the left hand side of the screen, you will see a button called New Thread, it is grey, click on that.

    3) you will basically will be prompt to a screen that allows you to cerate a thread.

    Lets see if that works for you
    Thanks buddy...appreciate it.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Expertly explained but let me add one thing.

    It is important to match the topic of your thread with the specific forum that you are creating it in. For example if you want to create a thread about something having to do with the Raptors then start that thread under "Everything Raptors" You do this by making sure that you are in the group of threads entitled "Everything Raptors"

    If you want to create a thread about another NBA team or about the NBA in general, for example you want to create a thread about the officiating, then you need to be in the group of threads entitled "Let's NBA". You do this by first clicking on "Raptors Republic Forums" and then clicking on "Lets NBA" Then create your thread just as you would if you were in "Everything Raptors"
    thanks

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    Quote BomKeyzi wrote: View Post
    If Bosh walks Amir becomes much more valuable. A Bosh sign n trade would have to bring back a far better bigman than Amir to justify only offering a $800,000 raise to a promising young bigman that knows he's highly regarded and needed by the team. Such a low ball offer could seriously backfire on the Raptors. I agree not to overpay, but this could easily turn into a bidding war with another team.
    It will be interesting to see what happens.

    I agree that Johnson and Duffy, his agent, might wait until Bosh makes his move before they decide to commit. I think that he will get a number of other offers.

    BC does want him back. I don't see Johnson as the type to play hardball but his agent is very successful. According to the last ranking of NBA agents Duffy was ranked #4 in terms of Clients Salaries. So clearly he has a track record of getting good money for his clients.

    Also, keep in mind that he managed to get $11 million for Amir three years ago when Amir was still playing in the D-League.

    It will be interesting.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Amir will be signed a 3 year deal worth $15 million dollars that is the magic number.

    I hope he isn't looking or asking for more,

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