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Thread: Let's Hope BC Can Get Rudy Gay

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    Raptors Republic Rookie bhattmagandhi's Avatar
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    Default Let's Hope BC Can Get Rudy Gay

    Losing Chris Bosh will indefinitely set back the Raptors, but if we can sign a quality free agent (even if its by BC playing around with sign-and-trade scenarios with Jose Calderon/Hedo Turkoglu) like Rudy Gay, I think we'll be right back in the playoff race!

    Rudy Gay 2010 Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPmIc...zM&feature=sub

    Rudy Gay 2010 Stats:

    19.6 PPG
    5.9 REB
    1.9 AST
    1.5 STL

    0.466 FG%
    0.327 3P%
    0.752 FT%
    Last edited by bhattmagandhi; Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 04:43 PM.

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    So many things would have to happen for the Raptors to get Rudy Gay. First of all, he'd have to want to sign. Secondly, Memphis would have to agree to not only let him go, but want what the Raptors had to offer in a sign and trade. The only way I see this happening is if Bosh leaves and the Raptors get a big trade exception and use that. Otherwise, why would Memphis not want to re-sign Gay, but want equal salary back? I could see Memphis possibly agreeing to a combination of the trade exception and either Jack or Calderon, but even then, I'm really not sure.

    It's not out of the realm of possibility, but it's highly unlikely.

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    I think Bargnani would have to be part of a sign and trade with Memphis. They'd need a young player with perceived upside/potential.

    Then build around a Bargnani/Gasol frontrcourt and OJ Mayo in the backcourt. Brewer, Thabeet, Conley and Henry as leading members of the supporting cast.

    Zach Randolph as an expiring contract + trade asset.

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    Bargs? Really, that would break the S&T barrier. Gay is getting max money or near it from someone. One of NYC, MIami or Chicago is going to be screwed and forced to overpay, if BC went balls deep and offered the super max and sent back Jose plus an expiring I think it could get it done.

    I don't Memphis wants to pay him that much money and losing him for nothing isn't ideal. They drafted Henry as a replacement and are still a year or two away from contending.

    I don't know too much about Gay, but he probably would go to whoever pays him the most money and with Bosh leaving he could fill the gap as go to guy. Its about as conceivable as getting Turk from Orlando last summer except it is an infinitely better idea.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Brain Colangelo's Avatar
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    I like Rudy Gay but the team wil still stink next year without Bosh unless we have someone to feed him the ball and make him better than he is. Turk? If so, I'm not sure how we defend teams with big bigs and quick wings.

    C - Amir/Alabi
    PF - Gay/Davis
    SF - Turk/Weems
    SG - DeRozan/Belinelli
    PG - Jack/Banks (I assume Calderon's gone in a trade to get Gay)

    Our bigger bigs would be somewhat interchangeable and we'd also have whatever comes back for Bosh. This will never happen. Why am I writing about it?

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    Raptors Republic Rookie knowledgep's Avatar
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    I agree, Rudy Gay being the starting PF on the raps would never happen.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    RUDY GAY is a small forward... keep him at that position. THe thing toronto has been lacking since Carter left was a guy that can create his own shot and drive from the perimeter. All we have to do is offer him the max deal which is the same Bosh was signed for when his contract ran out last time. Or we may be able to give Memphis a sign and trade ie. first rounder next year and maybe some expiring contracts or young prospects.

    BARGS is not a centre and never will be, he is a PF that has been forced to play out of position. I think he could be a solid
    20 pt. and 9 rb. guy at power forward.


    We will still have Turk and one of the point guards to trade for a decent defensive centre (ie.Okefor) and a young point guard (ie.collison). And a decent prospect from a Bosh sign and trade.


    Basically we will have:

    New Centre
    Bargs
    Rudy Gay
    Demar
    Jack/calderon

    Amir
    Weems
    Ed Davis
    Belinelli
    jack/calderon
    Banks
    Evans


    With a couple trades this could still be a great line up.
    Last edited by saints91; Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 06:20 PM.

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    Quote Brain Colangelo wrote: View Post
    I like Rudy Gay but the team wil still stink next year without Bosh unless we have someone to feed him the ball and make him better than he is. Turk? If so, I'm not sure how we defend teams with big bigs and quick wings.

    C - Amir/Alabi
    PF - Gay/Davis
    SF - Turk/Weems
    SG - DeRozan/Belinelli
    PG - Jack/Banks (I assume Calderon's gone in a trade to get Gay)

    Our bigger bigs would be somewhat interchangeable and we'd also have whatever comes back for Bosh. This will never happen. Why am I writing about it?
    I would think Turkoglu would be gone, so Gay would be the starting SF. And since we don't know what the Raptors would get back for Bosh and Turkoglu, it's hard to say what the lineup would be like.

    Personally, I don't really know if the Raptors need to do anything as desperate as overpay Gay the maximum. If Bosh leaves, the Raptors should probably be content with rebuilding this year, and then see what the situation is like when the new CBA comes into affect. If the Raptors get Rudy Gay, is it really going to prevent the team from returning to the lottery?

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JalenRose5's Avatar
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    I would pass on Rudy Gay because we have a guy exactly like him in Demar Derozan. Right now Gay is better offensively but give Derozan a year and he'll be just as good. I think trying to pry Danny Granger would be easier than getting Rudy Gay. Granger plays nasty, and isn't scared of anyone. I saw him bully chris bosh, and try and pick a fight with Lebron James. Also, he should've been on our team had we not picked up 6 year veteran Joey Graham from Oklahoma state.

    How he can fit, whatever team Bosh goes to, we pair him up with Hedo Turkoglu. Miami can take both of those dirt bags from us!

    Starting lineup can be

    Bargs
    Davis
    Granger
    Derozan
    Jack/Calderon (I still try and trade Calderon for someone like Collison) Also I would take on Emeka Okafor's contract. If anyone says it's bad, Look at Hedo + Bargnani + Calderon. At least Okafor can defend and get rebounds.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    I don't think we should give up Bargnani. I think at the PF position he could be a 20 point and 8 rebound getter. He's had to play out of position for years. I think we need a true, strong centre. Not necessarily offensive gifted, just a grit guy. I f we build up the SF, and PG positions, and let DeMar progress we will have a solid team. We definitely have the pieces to trade and money to spend.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Brain Colangelo's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors get Rudy Gay, is it really going to prevent the team from returning to the lottery?
    Not unless we get another top player, like a top PG.

    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    RUDY GAY is a small forward... keep him at that position. THe thing toronto has been lacking since Carter left was a guy that can create his own shot and drive from the perimeter.
    Get that out of your head. Gay is not vintage VC. Worse ball handler, not a passer and is a ball dominator. Maybe it's not his fault as he's never played with a great PG.

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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    I don't think we should give up Bargnani. I think at the PF position he could be a 20 point and 8 rebound getter. He's had to play out of position for years. I think we need a true, strong centre. Not necessarily offensive gifted, just a grit guy. I f we build up the SF, and PG positions, and let DeMar progress we will have a solid team. We definitely have the pieces to trade and money to spend.
    I've asked this before, and I will ask it again. How has Bargnani played out of position the last four years?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    I didn't say Rudy Gay was as good as VC, I said we need a talented SF that can create his own shots like VC.

    And you are fooling yourself if you think Bargs is a 5, just because he is 7'0 doesn't mean he should be playing that position. Do you see KG, Dirk or Gasol playing the 5, no because they are naturally better for other positions. A true 5 should play offense around the basket, rebound and deter teams from playing around the rim. Not take 325, 3 point shots a year and be out of position for offensive rebounds. He isn't a gritty, post player, and doesn't have a natural ability to rebound.

    Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Kareem, and Howard all are true centers. I'm not saying Bargs is as good as them, or as good as Dirk, KG, or Gasol. His Game is closer to the power forward style, and we should let him take advantage of his skills.

    Great 3 point shooting and mid range
    Great Ball Handling for his size
    good inside play and driving abilities

    I like the guy and I want him to be a great Raptor, but I think he would be better suited with a guy like Okefor, Bogut, Perkins, Horford, Dalembert, Bynum, etc. playing center with him playing PF.

    I don't see us getting a majority of those guys lol I've posted that we should make a trade for Okefor though and I think it would be possible.
    Last edited by saints91; Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 09:00 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    If we had a team made up like this we wouldn't be a lottery team...

    Okefor
    Bargs
    Gay
    DeMar (providing that DeMar improves to a 15 pt player... he's a hard worker)
    Collison

    Jack
    Amir
    Weems
    Ed Davis
    Belinelli
    Alabi
    and a good sixth man through a Turk or Calderon trade

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    8 rebounds!!! oh man, have you ever watched raptor basketball. 8 rebounds is like a career high for this kid, pulling him farther away from the basket isnt going to get him more rebounds, its not going to make him go and get the rebounds. he has to want it, and hustle for it. something he doesnt do. I would love him too, but dont get carried away. he averaged 35 mins per game and only took down 6.2 rebounds a game. 8 is a dream.

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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    And you are fooling yourself if you think Bargs is a 5, just because he is 7'0 doesn't mean he should be playing that position. Do you see KG, Dirk or Gasol playing the 5, no because they are naturally better for other positions. A true 5 should play offense around the basket, rebound and deter teams from playing around the rim. Not take 325, 3 point shots a year and be out of position for offensive rebounds. He isn't a gritty, post player, and doesn't have a natural ability to rebound.

    Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, and Kareem all were true centers. I'm not saying Bargs is as good as them, or as good as Dirk, KG, or Gasol. His Game is closer to the power forward style, and we should let him take advantage of his skills.

    Great 3 point shooting and mid range
    Great Ball Handling for his size
    good inside play and driving abilities

    I like the guy and I want him to be a great Raptor, but I think we would be better suited with a guy like Okefor, Bogut, Perkins, Horford, Dalembert, Bynum, etc.

    I don't see us getting a majority of those guys lol I've posted that we should make a trade for Okefor though and I think it would be possible.
    KG, Dirk and Gasol are far more mobile than Bargnani. Besides, Dirk gets overpowered defending the center position, and Gasol plays the 4 because Bynum is on the roster. In Memphis, he played center and played quite a big of center with the Lakers, at first and whenever Bynum was out.

    Most PFs have historically been defenders and rebounders who get most of their points under the basket on putbacks. It's only been fairly recently that PFs have scored more.

    Centers have, generally, had more varied offensive games. Ewing, who you mentioned, was mostly a jumpshooter.

    Laimbeer and Okur are/were both centers who rarely ventured in the paint on offense.

    On defense, Bargnani is better suited to guard centers than PFs. He defends back to the basket post players better than he does guy who play outside the paint. And Bargnani does best on offense when he has slower footer defenders on him who he can drive by and draw them out of the paint. However, this past season, Bargnani was guarded by PFs most of the time because the centers guarded Bosh, so there would be very little difference for Bargnani on offense if Bargnani moved to the four. It's on defense that would be the biggest change and where most of his struggles would occur.

    Bargnani is a great 3 point shooter, but only for his size. Overall, he's an above average 3 point shooter.

    Bargnani has very good handles for his size, but can do very little with those skills. He's not good enough to take defenders off the dribble and can't change direction well enough to do anything but drive straight to the hoop. He doesn't have the skills to react to a second defender.

    Bargnani has fair, at best, inside scoring abilities. He's a below average post player and draws fouls at an incredibly low rate.

    Again, you fail to make a good argument for Bargnani being a better PF than center. Realistically, Bargnani has a SFs game, but in the body of a 7 footer. He needs to be paired with a great interior defender, because he's not one himself, but that doesn't necessarily mean a center. A in-his-prime Garnett would have been a perfect compliment to Bargnani. Or Josh Smith, who's an excellent shot blocker.

    This is the main problem with Bargnani. His game has such glaring flaws that he needs to be surrounded by specific types of players in order to hide those flaws.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    I see what you are saying. I guess we have to say Barg is neither a PF or C. I prefer him at power forward and I think he would flourish at that position with a guy that can defend and rebound at the centre position.

    Oh and Ewing was not a jump shooter, yes he did shoot the occasional 18 ft, baseline shot off the drive and kick, but Ewing had maybe one of the best low post/high post games in all of the NBA history. Ewing also averaged 3 three point attempts a season. I may have been a huge knicks fan in the past.

    Either way, we need a true defensive/rebounding big man 5 or 4 next year for Bargnani to do well.

    and a allstar SF for this team to make playoffs.
    Last edited by saints91; Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 10:06 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    Bargs? Really, that would break the S&T barrier. Gay is getting max money or near it from someone. One of NYC, MIami or Chicago is going to be screwed and forced to overpay, if BC went balls deep and offered the super max and sent back Jose plus an expiring I think it could get it done.

    I don't Memphis wants to pay him that much money and losing him for nothing isn't ideal. They drafted Henry as a replacement and are still a year or two away from contending.

    I don't know too much about Gay, but he probably would go to whoever pays him the most money and with Bosh leaving he could fill the gap as go to guy. Its about as conceivable as getting Turk from Orlando last summer except it is an infinitely better idea.
    You said $18 million for Gay and we have a double or nothing giant pizza on that $18 million. Can't back out now.
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    I see what you are saying. I guess we have to say Barg is neither a PF or C. I prefer him at power forward and I think he would flourish at that position with a guy that can defend and rebound at the centre position.

    Oh and Ewing was not a jump shooter, yes he did shoot the occasional 18 ft, baseline shot off the drive and kick, but Ewing had maybe one of the best low post/high post games in all of the NBA history. Ewing also averaged 3 three point attempts a season. I may have been a huge knicks fan in the past.

    Either way, we need a true defensive/rebounding big man 5 or 4 next year for Bargnani to do well.

    and a allstar SF for this team to make playoffs.
    The problem with thinking that Bargnani would flourish at the four is that there is literally not one reason to believe he would do any better at the 4 than the 5. He already mostly had PFs guarding him, so it's not as if he would notice any difference on offense, and on defense, he'd have to guard quicker players, which doesn't help him.

    Ewing didn't have a great low post game. His offense mainly came from the high post where his jumpshooting ability really helped. I also watched a lot of Knicks games.

    Even better would be just to trade Bargnani so you don't have to worry so much about who you're surrounding him with.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie robito's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The problem with thinking that Bargnani would flourish at the four is that there is literally not one reason to believe he would do any better at the 4 than the 5. He already mostly had PFs guarding him, so it's not as if he would notice any difference on offense, and on defense, he'd have to guard quicker players, which doesn't help him.

    Ewing didn't have a great low post game. His offense mainly came from the high post where his jumpshooting ability really helped. I also watched a lot of Knicks games.

    Even better would be just to trade Bargnani so you don't have to worry so much about who you're surrounding him with.
    I don't think it matters what you call Bargnani, 4 or 5. But I think the Raptors need to play to his strengths, and more importantly away from his weaknesses. I've honestly been impressed over the past two years at his post-defense. When he goes up against a Shaq or Howard type of player, he fares pretty well in my opinion. He's a terrible help defender however. Offensively, as you mentioned, he's already guarded by other teams 4's, but I think it would be to our advantage to have a banger down low, somebody who'll hit the offensive glass hard for us.

    So it doesn't matter if we put Bargs at the 4 or the 5, his partner has to be a good help defender, excellent rebounder, assumes low-post position on offense and hits the offensive glass. We don't know if he'll pan out, but this is essentially a characterization of Ed Davis' game, so he looks to be a great fit with Bargs for the future.

    Like you said, it would be better to trade Bargnani so we don't have to worry about hiding his shortcomings.

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