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Thread: Let's Hope BC Can Get Rudy Gay

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    But you say that as if trading him would net a player without their own significant shortcomings, who is a significant upgrade, and doesn't disturb the benefits that a player like Bargnani brings to the table (3PT, Decent Post D -- which has only gotten better).

    It obviously takes the majority of big men longer to develop, and Bargnani is still young and hasn't ever had the opportunity to get more touches. Bosh barely ever passes (a major weakness), is a black hole on offense, could never establish a solid pick and roll offense with Bargnani or Turk (both very good passers), and is also a terrible help defender. If you were to play Amir and Bargnani, I think you'll be surprised at the increases in production from both. I don't particularly care if Bargnani only grabs 7-9 rebs a game, especially if Johnson grabs 6-11, and Davis grabs 6-9 (depending on minutes, if either ends up playing as a Raptor next season).

    How many teams have two guys grabbing 10+ rebs per game?

    There are only so many rebounds to grab in the first place! We had a major rebounding weakness at the starting SG and SF positions last season, and generally underwhelming rebounding from our PG position (with a few exceptions from Jack).
    It's about money

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    Do I still think Bargnani needs to be a better rebounder? Yes. Do I think It'll happen this year? Yes. There is no reason to assume that he wouldn't continue to develop, maybe this year he adds 1+ rebs to his averages while Amir or Davis do the dirty work boxing out the competition.
    It's about money

  3. #23
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    Quote Brain Colangelo wrote: View Post
    I like Rudy Gay but the team wil still stink next year without Bosh unless we have someone to feed him the ball and make him better than he is. Turk? If so, I'm not sure how we defend teams with big bigs and quick wings.

    C - Amir/Alabi
    PF - Gay/Davis
    SF - Turk/Weems
    SG - DeRozan/Belinelli
    PG - Jack/Banks (I assume Calderon's gone in a trade to get Gay)

    Our bigger bigs would be somewhat interchangeable and we'd also have whatever comes back for Bosh. This will never happen. Why am I writing about it?
    I think Rudy Gay is more of a shooting guard than a power forward. A 3/2 rather than 3/4.

    I haven't liked what I have seen from Gay at the four for the Grizzlies in the past. His team normally gets killed defensively + on the boards while at that position. That was one of the big improvements from the Zach Randolph trade, that Memphis no longer had to play Gay there.

  4. #24
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    Quote philwill wrote: View Post
    But you say that as if trading him would net a player without their own significant shortcomings, who is a significant upgrade, and doesn't disturb the benefits that a player like Bargnani brings to the table (3PT, Decent Post D -- which has only gotten better).

    It obviously takes the majority of big men longer to develop, and Bargnani is still young and hasn't ever had the opportunity to get more touches. Bosh barely ever passes (a major weakness), is a black hole on offense, could never establish a solid pick and roll offense with Bargnani or Turk (both very good passers), and is also a terrible help defender. If you were to play Amir and Bargnani, I think you'll be surprised at the increases in production from both. I don't particularly care if Bargnani only grabs 7-9 rebs a game, especially if Johnson grabs 6-11, and Davis grabs 6-9 (depending on minutes, if either ends up playing as a Raptor next season).

    How many teams have two guys grabbing 10+ rebs per game?

    There are only so many rebounds to grab in the first place! We had a major rebounding weakness at the starting SG and SF positions last season, and generally underwhelming rebounding from our PG position (with a few exceptions from Jack).
    Okay, let's start with your assertion that Bargnani is a good passer. Wrong. Bargnani once in a while makes a nice pass, but that's a world of difference from being a good passer. He is in fact a poor passer. It pains me to see people claim that he is a good passer. He averaged 1.2 apg despite being the second option on the team.

    And your claim that you don't care whether Bargnani only grabs 7-9 rebounds a game is like me claiming I don't care whether I date Meagan Fox or Scarlett Johansson. That's great, but at this point, I'm not dating either, am I. Bargnani isn't grabbing 7,8 or 9 rebounds. He's grabbing 6. And while most teams don't have two players that average 10+ rebounds a game, every single playoff team had at least two starting frontcourt players that averaged, at the very least, 7+ rebounds per 35 mpg.

    The Raptors had the worst rebounding weakness at center, then SF, then PG. SG was actually good as DeRozan and Weems are good rebounders. And you're generally not going to win or lose on the rebounding of your PG. It's his job to run the offense and handle the ball handling duties. It's the frontcourts job to rebound the ball. If your frontcourt doesn't rebound well, it's going to hurt you.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Okay, let's start with your assertion that Bargnani is a good passer. Wrong. Bargnani once in a while makes a nice pass, but that's a world of difference from being a good passer. He is in fact a poor passer. It pains me to see people claim that he is a good passer. He averaged 1.2 apg despite being the second option on the team.

    And your claim that you don't care whether Bargnani only grabs 7-9 rebounds a game is like me claiming I don't care whether I date Meagan Fox or Scarlett Johansson. That's great, but at this point, I'm not dating either, am I. Bargnani isn't grabbing 7,8 or 9 rebounds. He's grabbing 6. And while most teams don't have two players that average 10+ rebounds a game, every single playoff team had at least two starting frontcourt players that averaged, at the very least, 7+ rebounds per 35 mpg.

    The Raptors had the worst rebounding weakness at center, then SF, then PG. SG was actually good as DeRozan and Weems are good rebounders. And you're generally not going to win or lose on the rebounding of your PG. It's his job to run the offense and handle the ball handling duties. It's the frontcourts job to rebound the ball. If your frontcourt doesn't rebound well, it's going to hurt you.


    He's a good passer, but since the Raps use him as a spot shooter all the time he doesn't get the chance to pass thats why his assits numbers are so low . Now if the Raps can post him up a lot more next year i think u will see his numbers increase if thats how u measure a"passer".
    Last edited by rdiaz101; Mon Jun 28th, 2010 at 08:30 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    He's a good passer, but since the Raps use him as a spot shooter all the time he doesn't get the chance to pass thats why his ast numbers are so low . Now if the Raps can post him up a lot more next year i think u will see his numbers increase if thats how umeasure a"passer".
    No, he's not a good passer. He doesn't pass well when he's posting up, either, and he's awful at passing out of double teams. And the Raptors didn't use him as a spot shooter as much as that's where he floated to. Coaches were constantly getting frustrated with the fact that he would float out to the 3 point line.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    No, he's not a good passer. He doesn't pass well when he's posting up, either, and he's awful at passing out of double teams. And the Raptors didn't use him as a spot shooter as much as that's where he floated to. Coaches were constantly getting frustrated with the fact that he would float out to the 3 point line.
    Yeah maybe out of the double team he was a little weak but i think when he drives, he usually finds the open man but he doesnt do it too much, which i think is why his numbers were as great. Also when they ran the PnR with him he made some great passes they just didnt run it too often for him.
    "Hello, Hello !.....You Play to Win the GAME!!"

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  8. #28
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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    Yeah maybe out of the double team he was a little weak but i think when he drives, he usually finds the open man but he doesnt do it too much, which i think is why his numbers were as great. Also when they ran the PnR with him he made some great passes they just didnt run it too often for him.
    This is exactly my point. You remember him throwing some nice passes. That doesn't mean he's a good passer, just as him making some nice blocks once in a while doesn't make him a good help defender.

    And Bargnani didn't drive very often because he can't create for himself. And they didn't run the pick and roll for him much because he doesn't set picks very well. The fact is that the way Bargnani does play, he isn't a good passer. It doesn't matter whether he's a good passer after he crosses over his defender, because he's not going to do that very often, is he?

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    This is exactly my point. You remember him throwing some nice passes. That doesn't mean he's a good passer, just as him making some nice blocks once in a while doesn't make him a good help defender.

    And Bargnani didn't drive very often because he can't create for himself. And they didn't run the pick and roll for him much because he doesn't set picks very well. The fact is that the way Bargnani does play, he isn't a good passer. It doesn't matter whether he's a good passer after he crosses over his defender, because he's not going to do that very often, is he?

    The way he has been playing which is a spot up shooter no he cant really show his ability but, i think he has good vision and great hands and u cant really argue against that because he does have those qualities, now i think if he can ever develop a post up game(please god let him!!) you will be able to see it imo.

    Like we all always argue he shows flashes and the potential is there. So now that Bosh will be gone it's his time to shine. Another thing is guys that play close to the basket like Davis and Amir(if we resign him) will also help because they FINISH around the basket, so if he comes back with a post up game and can atract the DT down low u will see his assists numbers go up.
    "Hello, Hello !.....You Play to Win the GAME!!"

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