Proposal - Bulls/Grizzlies/Raptors

[f91ultra]

Bulls outgoing: Deng, Gibson, 1st rd pick(s)
Bulls incoming: Bosh

Grizzlies outgoing: Gay (S&T), Thabeet
Grizzlies incoming: Calderon, Deng, Gibson, 1st rd pick(s)

Toronto outgoing: Calderon, Bosh (S&T)
Toronto incoming: Gay, Thabeet

Chicago: No need to explain why they would do this trade...

Memphis: They were close to contending last year, and the main reason they fell short was mostly due to a thin thin bench. They have a decent backup wing in Sam Young, but that's about it last year. They drafted henry & other 2's so their depth on wing is set, but still need a proper big man and pg in their rotation to contend. Deng is a poor man's version of Gay (almost identical PER last year) with a shorter contract (assuming Gay signs a 5 or 6 yr extension), while calderon and gibson would give them a much needed boost in their second unit. For those who thinks that they dont' want this much salary back; this team is in a win now mode and need immediate upgrades to build upon the success of last year or risk falling back into the old grizzlies.

Their lineup:

Conley/Calderon/Vasquez
Mayo/Henry/ Vasquez
Deng/Young/
Randolph/Gibson/Carroll & Arthur
Gasol/Haddadi/Carroll & Arthur

Gay: The fact that memphis drafted Henry seems like a message that his time is up. Why not start anew in an (big) new city where he will have a shot as a #1?

Raptors: Admittedly this leaves us a little short at the pg position, but that can be easily rectified elsewhere. If nothing else we could continue to let Turk lead our second unit then Our lineup would become:

Jack/MLE signing?/Banks
Derozan/Weems/Bellineli
Gay/Turkoglu/Bellineli
Johnson/Davis/Evans
Bargnani/Thabeet/Alabi

whoever we sign with our MLE would preferably be a good shooter to space the floor. Maybe steve blake or luke ridnour?

[f91ultra]

As a note, if the grizzlies want to keep thabeet then I would substitute him with haddadi and one of carroll or arthur and let us keep the 1st rd pick(s).

[Quixotic]

Deng is a poor man's version of Gay

I'm just going to make a little note here. If Memphis wasn't willing to give Gay the 5-year $50 mil extension he wanted, why would they then do a S&T for a poor man's Gay, who earns over $51+ mil remaining over the next four years? Doesn't make sense and solidifying their 2nd unit with Gibson and Calderon while taking on Calderon's big contract and giving up their #2 pick after only one year doesn't justify it. Nor does the late 1st round pick they'd be getting from the Bulls, since usually teams prefer not to give 2nd round talent guaranteed contracts.

[Tim W.]

Why would Memphis trade away Gay for an older, more injury prone one that makes nearly as much, and then tack on extra salary in Calderon? If they're trying to save money, this is not the trade they will want to do. If they're not, then they'll just re-sign Gay.

[Tim W.]

I'm just going to make a little note here. If Memphis wasn't willing to give Gay the 5-year $50 mil extension he wanted, why would they then do a S&T for a poor man's Gay, who earns over $51+ mil remaining over the next four years? Doesn't make sense and solidifying their 2nd unit with Gibson and Calderon while taking on Calderon's big contract and giving up their #2 pick after only one year doesn't justify it. Nor does the late 1st round pick they'd be getting from the Bulls, since usually teams prefer not to give 2nd round talent guaranteed contracts.

Wow. This is getting a little eerie. This time you beat me to it.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!!!

[Quixotic]

Yes, I noticed. I win.

[f91ultra]

I'm just going to make a little note here. If Memphis wasn't willing to give Gay the 5-year $50 mil extension he wanted, why would they then do a S&T for a poor man's Gay, who earns over $51+ mil remaining over the next four years?

Why would Gay only deserve 10 mil/a year considering how much Iguodala got and how there are so many cap space teams starved for a star wing? he'll get the max offer from one of those teams (starting salary would be 12.5 mil i believe w/ raises in subsequent years). In addition, He would command a 5 or 6 year contract while Deng's is essentially for 3 years before becoming an expiring. Also Deng isn't THAT much worse than Gay production wise (Their PERs last yr was almost a wash). Also if it was up to me it's not so much that they're too cheap to pay Gay, but rather if they do pay Gay that's as far as they can go and it's not far enough in the western conference.

Doesn't make sense and solidifying their 2nd unit with Gibson and Calderon while taking on Calderon's big contract and giving up their #2 pick after only one year doesn't justify it. Nor does the late 1st round pick they'd be getting from the Bulls, since usually teams prefer not to give 2nd round talent guaranteed contracts.

It depends on what they feel about Thabeet's development, hence I added the provision that they can keep Thabeet and give us the firsts instead. Memphis needs to win/add quality pieces now, they're not like the thunders where all their pieces are in rookie wages still. If they resign Gay they'll be over the soft cap and have limited means to get quality pieces. Calderon's contract is big, but matches deng's perfectly in terms of length (his is actually 1 year shorter than deng's). Essentially this gives them a 3 yr window to compete with this lineup. If it doesn't work they can blow it up then as opposed to being stuck with Gay for 5 or more years.

Why would Memphis trade away Gay for an older, more injury prone one that makes nearly as much, and then tack on extra salary in Calderon? If they're trying to save money, this is not the trade they will want to do. If they're not, then they'll just re-sign Gay.

This trade is based on the premise that they want to win and not just to save money. Resigning Gay doesn't really make them that much better than last year, and would definitely not be enough in the stacked west. This trade gives them a 3 year window to contend, and the only reason i don't think they would do this trade is if they believe Gay is a franchise star. If that's the case then why would they draft henry when davis is still on the board, with them needing quality bigs/potential replacement for randolph?

[f91ultra]

Also for the record, I don't mind keeping Calderon and giving them Jack instead. Just thought Grizzlies would prefer Calderon over Jack to boost their second unit with money not being a factor. In fact that would probably make our line up more balanced/potent on offense.

[Quixotic]

Why would Gay only deserve 10 mil/a year considering how much Iguodala got and how there are so many cap space teams starved for a star wing?

It's not a matter of what he deserves or what he'll get now. That was what he asked for, and that was what Memphis refused to offer. Thus, my point still stands.

Also I don't think they feel that Gay is the star they want leading their franchise. Why else would they draft henry when davis is still on the board, with them needing quality bigs/potential replacement for randolph?

So Gay isn't the star they want leading their franchise, but Henry, a one-and-done shooting guard who has yet to prove a thing in the NBA obviously is? You ask a question that can't be answered. Why did Minnesota draft Johnson, only to acquire Webster and 2 more SFs through the draft? Why did Utah pick Hayward when Henry was still on the board? Why did Golden State pick Udoh when Davis and Monroe were still on the board The draft isn't perfectly logical, not to mention Henry ideally would play the 2 (he is a bit undersized for the 3) and Gay plays the 3 on Memphis.

[f91ultra]

It's not a matter of what he deserves or what he'll get now. That was what he asked for, and that was what Memphis refused to offer. Thus, my point still stands.

my point is that Memphis probably refused because they're not comfortable with Gay being their franchise star, and with the added cost now, it's even more prohibitive.

So Gay isn't the star they want leading their franchise, but Henry, a one-and-done shooting guard who has yet to prove a thing in the NBA obviously is? You ask a question that can't be answered. Why did Minnesota draft Johnson, only to acquire Webster and 2 more SFs through the draft? Why did Utah pick Hayward when Henry was still on the board? Why did Golden State pick Udoh when Davis and Monroe were still on the board The draft isn't perfectly logical, not to mention Henry ideally would play the 2 (he is a bit undersized for the 3) and Gay plays the 3 on Memphis.

Fair enough, but my question is do you think they can win by just resigning Gay? and if not, can they do better than this trade to help them win now?

[Quixotic]

my point is that Memphis probably refused because they're not comfortable with Gay being their franchise star, and with the added cost now, it's even more prohibitive.

I see what you're saying, but you have to admit, just between Gay and Deng, even if they decided they weren't comfortable with Gay being their franchise star, this move basically says they are comfortable with Deng being their franchise star, or at least being paid more than the person they were uncomfortable with was asking. Plus, if they watched Deng at all in Chicago, they'd know he's a good player but hardly the impact player Chicago was hoping for when they awarded him that contract.

Fair enough, but my question is do you think they can win by just resigning Gay? and if not, can they do better than this trade to help them win now?

Honestly, I don't think it matters either way. They did do better than expected, but they'd be pretty silly to think a few moves of this caliber would put them into true contention in a very strong Western conference (even Houston will be better this coming year than they were last). Calderon and Gibson (if we call Gay and Deng a wash, which I don't believe they are) aren't enough to make up the gap; at best, they might miss the playoffs next year by 6 games instead of 8. That's not enough reason to add the salaries of Deng and Calderon (and Jack would help them even less IMO). The best thing they could have done was extend Gay back when it was $5-years, $50 mil (considering it would have been something like $8 mil, $9 mil, $10 mil, $11 mil, $12 mil, it wouldn't have been that bad) and continue to build their young core, or S&T him for other young parts or draft picks without adding poor salary obligations. It would be a very bad mistake if they thought last season was a good reason to add bad contracts now.

[f91ultra]

I see what you're saying, but you have to admit, just between Gay and Deng, even if they decided they weren't comfortable with Gay being their franchise star, this move basically says they are comfortable with Deng being their franchise star, or at least being paid more than the person they were uncomfortable with was asking. Plus, if they watched Deng at all in Chicago, they'd know he's a good player but hardly the impact player Chicago was hoping for when they awarded him that contract.

Well, the idea of this trade is that Deng wouldn't be a franchise player (he's gone for sure by 4th year as an expiring), but an almost equally useful replacement and to let mayo/randolph shine.

Honestly, I don't think it matters either way. They did do better than expected, but they'd be pretty silly to think a few moves of this caliber would put them into true contention in a very strong Western conference (even Houston will be better this coming year than they were last). Calderon and Gibson (if we call Gay and Deng a wash, which I don't believe they are) aren't enough to make up the gap; at best, they might miss the playoffs next year by 6 games instead of 8. That's not enough reason to add the salaries of Deng and Calderon (and Jack would help them even less IMO). The best thing they could have done was extend Gay back when it was $5-years, $50 mil (considering it would have been something like $8 mil, $9 mil, $10 mil, $11 mil, $12 mil, it wouldn't have been that bad) and continue to build their young core, or S&T him for other young parts or draft picks without adding poor salary obligations. It would be a very bad mistake if they thought last season was a good reason to add bad contracts now.

Well, if we're just talking about making the playoffs, I don't think Suns and possibly Spurs will make it back (their time is up). If Boozer leaves Utah then they may not be that hard to leapfrog either. I agree with you that they should've extended Gay to a contract like Barg's (i.e. 2nd or 3rd option worth), but whats done is done and this trade is essentially an All-In gamble for them. Might as well really, that's how the NBA goes, you restock, try and build a contender with whatever means possible, if you fail, try again.