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Expectations on the Bosh-less Raptors

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  • #31
    tbihis wrote: View Post
    Kinda expected a little bit of support from the Admin of a home team's fan forum. But oh well, we all have our bad days i guess.
    Gee, why don't you really tell me what you think.

    In all seriousness though, would you rather if I were phony? I have faith in the team long term but I'm a Raptors fan of 15 years. This isn't the first time I've been here, tbjhis. Next season probably won't be pretty considering how they couldn't even get to the playoffs with Bosh.

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    • #32
      tbihis wrote: View Post
      Kinda expected a little bit of support from the Admin of a home team's fan forum. But oh well, we all have our bad days i guess.
      You want blind optimism or outright lying? It's not about lack of support, it's looking at the situation realistically. And realistically, the Raptors are not going to be very good next year if Bosh leaves. I'm supportive of the team, as is Apollo, but we're certainly not delusional. Look at the team. If they weren't your favourite team, would you think they would be anything but a lottery team?
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • #33
        Tim W. wrote: View Post
        You want blind optimism or outright lying? It's not about lack of support, it's looking at the situation realistically. And realistically, the Raptors are not going to be very good next year if Bosh leaves. I'm supportive of the team, as is Apollo, but we're certainly not delusional. Look at the team. If they weren't your favourite team, would you think they would be anything but a lottery team?
        Yes. Why? Because the Raptors play in the east. The East has 15 teams, so the Raptors have to be better than 7 teams to make the playoffs. As of right now we are better than the Knicks, Nets, Sixers, Pacers, Wizards, and Pistons. The Bucks and Bobcats are not significantly better than our roster with Bosh gone (and if LeBron, Bosh, Wade don't sign with them, neither are the Bulls).

        Its too early to just come out and say whether we will be a lottery team or not. Too much depends on the Free Agency and for the most part not for us.

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        • #34
          daveyboy wrote: View Post
          Yes. Why? Because the Raptors play in the east. The East has 15 teams, so the Raptors have to be better than 7 teams to make the playoffs. As of right now we are better than the Knicks, Nets, Sixers, Pacers, Wizards, and Pistons. The Bucks and Bobcats are not significantly better than our roster with Bosh gone (and if LeBron, Bosh, Wade don't sign with them, neither are the Bulls).

          Its too early to just come out and say whether we will be a lottery team or not. Too much depends on the Free Agency and for the most part not for us.
          Without Bosh, the Raptors are better than the Knicks, Nets, WIzards and Pistons. Both the Sixers and Pacers are now more talented than the Raptors. And if LeBron leaves Cleveland and goes somewhere other than the Nets or Knicks, that adds one more team. That's five teams. Of course, if the Nets get a couple of good free agents, then they'll probably leapfrog over the Raptors, so it's back to four. The Bucks and Bobcats were better than the Raptors when they had Bosh. They are certainly better than them without Bosh.

          I was called a homer by predicting the Raptors would win 45 games last year. I was overly optimistic, but they were at that rate at the All-Star break. It's not like I'm some bitter, pessimistic fan. If nothing else, I'm usually pretty realistic. It really is to make confident predictions, but if the summer goes the way I think it will, without any big surprises, and Colangelo does what he should do, which is build for the future and not take any big veterans that are going to take time away from the development of the younger players, then the Raptors will be lucky to win 30 games, and more likely will be closer to 20.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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          • #35
            Apollo wrote: View Post
            Gee, why don't you really tell me what you think.

            In all seriousness though, would you rather if I were phony? I have faith in the team long term but I'm a Raptors fan of 15 years. This isn't the first time I've been here, tbihis. Next season probably won't be pretty considering how they couldn't even get to the playoffs with Bosh.
            you really want to know what i think??? hahaha id rather not, we have to keep this site family-oriented!

            Like i said, you might all say that we have to be realistic and say that this team is pretty much going to the dumps, but the least we can do is boost this team, think of the positives.

            I think Bargs is gonna be big this year, he needs to make this his breakout year or he will be labeled as a bust. I think the development of DD and Weems will start this year and the era of the young gunz will be ushered in. This season will be Ed Davis' training ground and will be his take off for next season's starting role.

            I still believe that Turk will stay and be a major piece next season. Hopefully he'll get more control of the ball. I think Turk is what will differentiate us from last season's nets. Although they had legit scorers in Harris and Lopez, they didnt have a veteran presence like Turk who will take care of the ball come crunch time.

            See, this is the shit that we should all be talking about, not posting fucking pics of toilets and how this team is a lottery bound team.

            In the words of the ever resilient Doug Smith, "I digress".

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            • #36
              tbihis wrote: View Post
              Like i said, you might all say that we have to be realistic and say that this team is pretty much going to the dumps, but the least we can do is boost this team, think of the positives.
              Never said there weren't positives. A guy asks us what we feel the outcome will be this coming season. I told him what I thought of the outcome with positives in mind.

              tbihis wrote: View Post
              I think Bargs is gonna be big this year, he needs to make this his breakout year or he will be labeled as a bust.
              All stats point towards him fading when it's all on him to deliver. He regressed every time Bosh was inactive. There are stats which clearly prove this. I am hoping he can overcome his dependence on CB4. And for the record if he plateaus I still feel that he's not a bust. Busts typically wash out or cannot play important roles on a team.

              tbihis wrote: View Post
              I think the development of DD and Weems will start this year and the era of the young gunz will be ushered in.
              Weems is a good young role player, DeRozan needs to come back with a much improved handle if he wants to make a large impact this season.

              tbihis wrote: View Post
              I still believe that Turk will stay and be a major piece next season. Hopefully he'll get more control of the ball. I think Turk is what will differentiate us from last season's nets.
              I believe he's gone and they will be lucky to get back 60 cents on the dollar from a talent standpoint.

              tbihis wrote: View Post
              See, this is the shit that we should all be talking about, not posting fucking pics of toilets and how this team is a lottery bound team.
              There can be no light without darkness young grasshopper.
              Last edited by Apollo; Wed Jun 30, 2010, 07:52 PM. Reason: Changed attention

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              • #37
                I highly doubt that that will be the final roster to start to season, I think this team will be a lot better than people think once colangelo gets the roster situated, you ppl act like we were big winner with Bosh, have you ever thought that Bosh was the problem w/20 jumpshots per games?? If Calderon And Turk come back then yeah this team will probably be 30-35 win team but I doubt that both of them will.

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                • #38
                  I understand not everybody is a fan of Bosh, but be serious. This is a guy who averaged 24 ppg and 10.8 rpg this past season. You can insult him all you want, but he was FAR AND AWAY the best player the Raptors had, and to suggest that the Raps will be the same or BETTER with a roster that's missing their best scorer and best rebounder, then you're dreaming in technicolor.

                  The ONLY way the Raps will be even able to come CLOSE to making the playoffs this season is if the team is rebuilt with a specific playing strategy in mind and they happen to manage to round up excellent pieces to make that strategy work.

                  All we have right now is a bunch of puzzle pieces that don't fit together, so don't get your hopes up.

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                  • #39
                    Apollo wrote: View Post
                    Never said there weren't positives. A guy asks us what we feel the outcome will be this coming season. I told him what I thought of the outcome with positives in mind.



                    All stats point towards him fading when it's all on him to deliver. He regressed every time Bosh was inactive. There are stats which clearly prove this. I am hoping he can overcome his dependence on CB4. And for the record if he plateaus I still feel that he's not a bust. Busts typically wash out or cannot play important roles on a team.



                    Weems is a good young role player, DeRozan needs to come back with a much improved handle if he wants to make a large impact this season.



                    I believe he's gone and they will be lucky to get back 60 cents on the dollar from a talent standpoint.



                    There can be no light without darkness young grasshopper.
                    i really admire you Apollo for not throwing dirt my way as any other ordinary post-er would do, you are indeed administrator material!

                    sorry dudes, but im really a hardcore raps fan and i always want my team to be on top. i guess you are all right, sadly, if this is what our team is going to be, then we should probably be ready for a less than mediocre season but im still going to be hopeful no matter what.

                    bargs was thrown in the fire so to speak when bosh went down. i think it would be unfair to judge his "take over the game" mentality in those couple of games. he was basically bred to be bosh's sidekick, all plays were done for bosh and then suddenly you turn the tides on bargs and want to make him the top guy. im sure if bosh goes and bargs goes through set plays made for him, he'd be better than how we saw him when bosh went down. even kobe when thrown into the fire so to speak after shaq left couldnt even take the lakers to the playoffs. i think bargs can handle being the #1 guy, he just needs to warm up to the idea.

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                    • #40
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      Without Bosh, the Raptors are better than the Knicks, Nets, WIzards and Pistons. Both the Sixers and Pacers are now more talented than the Raptors. And if LeBron leaves Cleveland and goes somewhere other than the Nets or Knicks, that adds one more team. That's five teams. Of course, if the Nets get a couple of good free agents, then they'll probably leapfrog over the Raptors, so it's back to four. The Bucks and Bobcats were better than the Raptors when they had Bosh. They are certainly better than them without Bosh.
                      Are the Sixers and Pacers "more talented" than the Raptors? Doubtful. Are they "more talented" particularly if the rumour about Beasley is true? Very doubtful. And of course the Nets could be better if they get a couple of good free agents. Imagine that. The Raptors could be fantastic if they traded for Kobe Bryant too. I try not to live in fantasy land until it happens.

                      The Bucks and Bobcats were certainly better than the Raptors the last third of last season. Coincidentally mostly played without Bosh and with Hedo and Calderon, 3 factors which in all likelihood won't be with the Raptors next season. They certainly weren't better teams before Bosh got hurt against Memphis and to imply so would be simply idiotic.

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                      • #41
                        tbihis wrote: View Post
                        bargs was thrown in the fire so to speak when bosh went down. i think it would be unfair to judge his "take over the game" mentality in those couple of games.
                        Bargnani has been in the league 4 years, and been the second option for at least a year and a half. Just how much coddling does this guy need. There are players that come straight out of one year of college and perform better when asked to become the first option. LaMarcus Aldridge, who was drafted the same year, increased his scoring when Brandon Roy went out. Same with Pau Gasol and most other second options, when the first option went out with injury. All except for Bargnani. Is Bargnani such a special case that he shouldn't be expected to carry the extra load that all the other second options do when their best player goes out?
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                        • #42
                          daveyboy wrote: View Post
                          Are the Sixers and Pacers "more talented" than the Raptors? Doubtful. Are they "more talented" particularly if the rumour about Beasley is true? Very doubtful. And of course the Nets could be better if they get a couple of good free agents. Imagine that. The Raptors could be fantastic if they traded for Kobe Bryant too. I try not to live in fantasy land until it happens.

                          The Bucks and Bobcats were certainly better than the Raptors the last third of last season. Coincidentally mostly played without Bosh and with Hedo and Calderon, 3 factors which in all likelihood won't be with the Raptors next season. They certainly weren't better teams before Bosh got hurt against Memphis and to imply so would be simply idiotic.
                          I think you're underestimating the impact the loss of Bosh will have. They had 40 wins with Bosh. Without their best player (by far), you're looking at, at most, 30 wins (and I'm being optimistic). The ONLY thing the Raptors did well last year was score, and now their top scorer is likely gone.

                          Both Indiana and Philadelphia have improved (and Indiana was wracked with injuries). They play better defense, rebound better. And both teams drafted players that should help immediately. I'd guess both teams would end up just below .500 next season. Around where the Raptors finished this season.

                          And speaking of living in fantasyland, you're the one who thinks the Raptors have a chance at the playoffs. Not me. The Nets have cap space enough for 2 max free agents and will likely end up with at least one good free agent and maybe two.

                          The Bucks and Bobcats both came on late in the season, both due to trades. The Bobcats traded for Stephen Jackson and had a very good record after that. The Bucks traded for Salmons and ended up 6 games better than the Raptors. Both teams were on the Raptors heals when Bosh got hurt because of their improved play. And that was with Bosh.

                          No matter what the Raptors get for Bosh, it will be, at most, 60 cents on the dollar. Same goes for Turkoglu. That means the team is getting worse. There's a chance that Colangelo could pull some magic out of his hat and bring in some talent, but unless that happens, you're looking at 20-30 wins next season, which is fine. The Raptors shouldn't be worried about being the 8th seed and remaining mediocre. That's not the point. They need to worry about building for the future, not trying not to suck right now.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                          • #43
                            Just in case Beasley comes back in the S&T, here's a breakdown of his game from Draftexpress.com,
                            although its from his rookie year, I think it still applies to his game today.

                            http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...l-Beasley-605/

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                            • #44
                              Tim W. wrote: View Post
                              ...No matter what the Raptors get for Bosh, it will be, at most, 60 cents on the dollar. Same goes for Turkoglu. That means the team is getting worse. ...
                              Have to disagree here - there are many moves for Turkoglu that will improve this team - if one is to believe rebounding and defense are important factors in winning basketball.

                              Turkoglu (my some measures) was a top 20 WORSE defender in the league - right there with guys like Bargnani, Lee, Beasley, Villanueva, etc.
                              Def Rbs % is horrid.
                              And Mr 4th quarter, shoots 20% from beyond the arc in crunch time. No thanks.

                              Give us a strong wing defender.
                              http://twitter.com/Liston

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                              • #45
                                I'm not sure how the Raptors will do this year.

                                But I think that next year, they'll be better than they were last year.

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