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Toronto Trying To Land Amare

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  • #16
    they compared them on the score after amare claiming he was better than bosh and amare topped every category other than rebounding by like 1 and something esle that was pretty close. i say amare is better than bosh.
    What year was this? Compare their most recent seasons.

    Anyway, if Bosh never took us anywhere, Amare is not going to do any better at all. Stupid idea.
    Two beer away from being two beers away.

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    • #17
      LBF wrote: View Post
      they compared them on the score after amare claiming he was better than bosh and amare topped every category other than rebounding by like 1 and something esle that was pretty close. i say amare is better than bosh.
      They are at about the same level offensively, although Bosh is a better passer, which tells you something about Amare's passing. Bosh was a better rebounder this season. Defensively, Bosh is much better. Amare is simply a poor defender with poor defensive instincts. And Amare is 2 and a half years older than Bosh.

      The biggest issue, however, is that Amare has never played without Nash. Nash is renowned for making player look better than they are. How will Amare do when he doesn't have Nash setting him up? Bosh has never had anyone like Nash. He has to mostly create for himself, which Amare simply doesn't have to do most of the time.

      I'm not sure how you can say that Amare is better other than the fact that you've watched Bosh for 7 years and are now possibly sick of him. It doesn't take away what Bosh is, though. And that's a better player than Amare.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • #18
        Bendit wrote: View Post
        Fully concur with first sentence.

        But rare is the time (I cant think of one) that one can move/trade a max. player (I assume an AS would be such) once accumulated as a considered asset. You do max deals because you believe in the player to keep as a cornerstone. The best assets to possess during a rebuild are draft choices, trade exceptions and low cost/young players that you can flip for proven and more expensive players.
        As long as Amare stays healthy many teams would want him at max money. That said, I'm not Colangelo but I know he drafted Amare and must feel comfortable with the big man leading the team.

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        • #19
          so, basically amare is in the mix for half the nba teams

          looks promising...

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          • #20
            Apollo wrote: View Post
            As long as Amare stays healthy many teams would want him at max money. That said, I'm not Colangelo but I know he drafted Amare and must feel comfortable with the big man leading the team.
            This isn't about what other teams would pay Amare, but what the Raptors should be doing. If the team didn't even make the playoffs with Bosh, what exactly are they going to do if they replace Bosh with Amare? Sure, they might improve a few games and maybe even make the playoffs, but that's about it. Again, it's this complete fear some Raptor fans have of regression, even if that's best for the future of the team. Amare would be a way to keep the team's head above water and nothing more. I agree with Bendit. If you're going to rebuild, signing a guy for the max probably isn't the best way to start.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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            • #21
              Tim, that's all fine and well if the team was going to stay as is but the team isn't staying as is and so what didn't work last year is being cast aside now or it sounds like Colangelo is attempting to do that.

              The fact that it sounds like the Raptors aren't moving Hedo and now chasing Amare sounds like they're not doing a rebuild, just a retooling.

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              • #22
                Apollo wrote: View Post
                A rebuild is about acquiring assets. I feel Amare's defense is as good as Chris' and I never have had a problem with Chris' defense. Chris wasn't the liability on defense for the Raptors and neither was Amare for the Suns
                I never really had a problem with Chris' defense either. If we go by 82games.com's statistics, we see that the Raptors gave up fewer points with Bosh on the floor, so the main problem obviously wasn't him. The Suns, on the other hand, gave up more points with Amare on the floor. What's interesting is (supposedly) Amare's contribution to the team's offense was outweighed by his negative effect on the team's defense.

                http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR13.HTM (Chris)
                versus
                http://www.82games.com/0910/09PHO11.HTM (Amare)

                Actually, Bosh pretty much wins across the board when compared to Amare. Better rebounder, better defender, better passer, less turnover prone -- the only thing Amare beats Bosh at is eFG%. However, Amare's already higher assisted rate (61%) goes up even more (68%) in clutch situations; Bosh's lower assisted rate (50%) actually goes down (42%) in clutch situations. So how much of Amare was Amare and how much was Nash? I'd be willing to wager Amare would have had a harder time in Toronto this past season if he and Bosh had been swapped.

                Let's say for now though that the two players are the same even though I believe Bosh to be better (Bosh is also cheaper and younger). This is where I disagree with you, Apollo. If we were to acquire Amare, at best we could expect a marginal improvement due to improvement in other areas. We would still not be a serious contender. Eventually Amare's contribution will decrease, and all we will be left with is an even bigger contract than Bosh's, the few young pieces we have and a bunch of middling draft picks. Sounds more like a retool as it is simply a sidestep. Amare will be as much a liability (contract-wise) as he is an asset. If we want to rebuild, we should go for affordable, controllable young assets through the draft. No high-priced half measures.

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                • #23
                  Apollo wrote: View Post
                  Tim, that's all fine and well if the team was going to stay as is but the team isn't staying as is and so what didn't work last year is being cast aside now or it sounds like Colangelo is attempting to do that.

                  The fact that it sounds like the Raptors aren't moving Hedo and now chasing Amare sounds like they're not doing a rebuild, just a retooling.
                  That would be very disappointing. Unless a miracle happens, the Raptors won't be any better than a mediocre team next year. And what didn't work this past year is playing with a starting five that wasn't above average defensively. This is merely shuffling around similar pieces hoping they come together differently.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                  • #24
                    I'll add that this contradicts an earlier rumour that said BC wasn't interested in Amare.
                    Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                    • #25
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      That would be very disappointing. Unless a miracle happens, the Raptors won't be any better than a mediocre team next year. And what didn't work this past year is playing with a starting five that wasn't above average defensively. This is merely shuffling around similar pieces hoping they come together differently.
                      Exactly. And Amar'e isn't exactly known to be a stellar locker room presence. We already have a questionable presence in Hedo. Do we need to surround the Young Guns with more primadonnas?

                      The time to acquire "assets" is over. O'Neal, Marion, Hedo, even going back to Olajuwon, our marquee FAs have been horrible flops. It's time to BUILD A TEAM.

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                      • #26
                        Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        That would be very disappointing. Unless a miracle happens, the Raptors won't be any better than a mediocre team next year. And what didn't work this past year is playing with a starting five that wasn't above average defensively. This is merely shuffling around similar pieces hoping they come together differently.
                        Amare + Jack or Calderon < Amare + Nash.

                        Of course, if BC can turn our 5 into an absolute defensive stalwart, then we'll talk.

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                        • #27
                          what this all comes down to.. is that Amare is also a free agent..

                          That mean's he'd have to WANT to come to Toronto, which would contradict all of his earlier statements about just wanting to win

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                          • #28
                            no wya going in for amare.......doenst make any sence for the raps part no matter what we do we this offseason we are still relatively going nowhere for the next 2 or three years

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                            • #29
                              To me it comes down to one single question because we all know his qualitites and the things he can't do: Can he be such a dominant force without Steve Nash? I don't think so and if his offensive impact decreases, so will his standing in the locker room which would make it a really difficult situation. Maybe Stat will never win a ring in Phoenix but will he ever find a team which is this perfect for him? Can't imagine it. In my opinion he will suck without Steve.

                              Amare said, that he wants to win so he's not coming to Toronto.

                              Stoudemires Defense? It really sucks, CB4 is way ahead of him in this category. Even in the playoffs it looked like he wasn't willing, as if he not even tried. Look at the games in LA how he defended the Pick and Rolls and Lamar Odoms drive to the hoop.
                              Last edited by jjiio; Thu Jul 1, 2010, 09:16 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Makes no sense with Johnson resigning - how would Johnson & Davis both get enough playing time to develop, when they both play behind Amare?

                                I wonder if Dirk were to leave Dallas, would the 3-way deal land Amare in Dallas and other pieces (players/picks) from both Houston & Dallas in Toronto??? That could be great for Toronto...

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