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Thread: Toronto Trying To Land Amare

  1. #21
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Tim, that's all fine and well if the team was going to stay as is but the team isn't staying as is and so what didn't work last year is being cast aside now or it sounds like Colangelo is attempting to do that.

    The fact that it sounds like the Raptors aren't moving Hedo and now chasing Amare sounds like they're not doing a rebuild, just a retooling.

  2. #22
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    A rebuild is about acquiring assets. I feel Amare's defense is as good as Chris' and I never have had a problem with Chris' defense. Chris wasn't the liability on defense for the Raptors and neither was Amare for the Suns
    I never really had a problem with Chris' defense either. If we go by 82games.com's statistics, we see that the Raptors gave up fewer points with Bosh on the floor, so the main problem obviously wasn't him. The Suns, on the other hand, gave up more points with Amare on the floor. What's interesting is (supposedly) Amare's contribution to the team's offense was outweighed by his negative effect on the team's defense.

    http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR13.HTM (Chris)
    versus
    http://www.82games.com/0910/09PHO11.HTM (Amare)

    Actually, Bosh pretty much wins across the board when compared to Amare. Better rebounder, better defender, better passer, less turnover prone -- the only thing Amare beats Bosh at is eFG%. However, Amare's already higher assisted rate (61%) goes up even more (68%) in clutch situations; Bosh's lower assisted rate (50%) actually goes down (42%) in clutch situations. So how much of Amare was Amare and how much was Nash? I'd be willing to wager Amare would have had a harder time in Toronto this past season if he and Bosh had been swapped.

    Let's say for now though that the two players are the same even though I believe Bosh to be better (Bosh is also cheaper and younger). This is where I disagree with you, Apollo. If we were to acquire Amare, at best we could expect a marginal improvement due to improvement in other areas. We would still not be a serious contender. Eventually Amare's contribution will decrease, and all we will be left with is an even bigger contract than Bosh's, the few young pieces we have and a bunch of middling draft picks. Sounds more like a retool as it is simply a sidestep. Amare will be as much a liability (contract-wise) as he is an asset. If we want to rebuild, we should go for affordable, controllable young assets through the draft. No high-priced half measures.

  3. #23
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Tim, that's all fine and well if the team was going to stay as is but the team isn't staying as is and so what didn't work last year is being cast aside now or it sounds like Colangelo is attempting to do that.

    The fact that it sounds like the Raptors aren't moving Hedo and now chasing Amare sounds like they're not doing a rebuild, just a retooling.
    That would be very disappointing. Unless a miracle happens, the Raptors won't be any better than a mediocre team next year. And what didn't work this past year is playing with a starting five that wasn't above average defensively. This is merely shuffling around similar pieces hoping they come together differently.

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    I'll add that this contradicts an earlier rumour that said BC wasn't interested in Amare.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    That would be very disappointing. Unless a miracle happens, the Raptors won't be any better than a mediocre team next year. And what didn't work this past year is playing with a starting five that wasn't above average defensively. This is merely shuffling around similar pieces hoping they come together differently.
    Exactly. And Amar'e isn't exactly known to be a stellar locker room presence. We already have a questionable presence in Hedo. Do we need to surround the Young Guns with more primadonnas?

    The time to acquire "assets" is over. O'Neal, Marion, Hedo, even going back to Olajuwon, our marquee FAs have been horrible flops. It's time to BUILD A TEAM.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    That would be very disappointing. Unless a miracle happens, the Raptors won't be any better than a mediocre team next year. And what didn't work this past year is playing with a starting five that wasn't above average defensively. This is merely shuffling around similar pieces hoping they come together differently.
    Amare + Jack or Calderon < Amare + Nash.

    Of course, if BC can turn our 5 into an absolute defensive stalwart, then we'll talk.

  7. #27
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    what this all comes down to.. is that Amare is also a free agent..

    That mean's he'd have to WANT to come to Toronto, which would contradict all of his earlier statements about just wanting to win

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    no wya going in for amare.......doenst make any sence for the raps part no matter what we do we this offseason we are still relatively going nowhere for the next 2 or three years

  9. #29
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    To me it comes down to one single question because we all know his qualitites and the things he can't do: Can he be such a dominant force without Steve Nash? I don't think so and if his offensive impact decreases, so will his standing in the locker room which would make it a really difficult situation. Maybe Stat will never win a ring in Phoenix but will he ever find a team which is this perfect for him? Can't imagine it. In my opinion he will suck without Steve.

    Amare said, that he wants to win so he's not coming to Toronto.

    Stoudemires Defense? It really sucks, CB4 is way ahead of him in this category. Even in the playoffs it looked like he wasn't willing, as if he not even tried. Look at the games in LA how he defended the Pick and Rolls and Lamar Odoms drive to the hoop.
    Last edited by jjiio; Thu Jul 1st, 2010 at 09:16 PM.

  10. #30
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    Makes no sense with Johnson resigning - how would Johnson & Davis both get enough playing time to develop, when they both play behind Amare?

    I wonder if Dirk were to leave Dallas, would the 3-way deal land Amare in Dallas and other pieces (players/picks) from both Houston & Dallas in Toronto??? That could be great for Toronto...

  11. #31
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    Default Raptors Reach Out To Amar'e

    Raptors Reach Out To Amar'e

    Jul 01, 2010 7:57 PM EST

    Amar'e Stoudemire will meet with the Knicks on Monday, followed by the Bulls on Tuesday.

    The Raptors have also expressed interest in Stoudemire.

    Bryan Colangelo is the former GM of the Suns.

    Via John Gambadoro/KTAR (via Twitter)
    http://bit.ly/bfcNzT

    If Bosh Walks the Raptos wouldn't be low enough under the cap to sign Amar'e straight up however maybe a Bargnani for Amar'e deal on a S&T?
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  12. #32
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    It would have to be more than just Bargnani, since Amare's max contract will be $17+ mil, Bargnani is only due $8 mil this season and we would only be about $3 mil under the cap (not including Dorsey). Either we make room or make the salaries match 125% +100k.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter blaze89's Avatar
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    dont really see why we need to be wasting more cap space on a player thats basically the same, didnt we win only one playoff round with bosh? i can just imagine what we are thinking with amare.
    also we are basically in "re-building" mode anyway so why just do it the proper way like OKC through the draft? not like were gonna be a contending team in the next couple of years anyway even with amare

  14. #34
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    Oh I definitely agree with you Blaze, but I fear BC is trying to retool again rather than just rebuild from prospects up. We've never really had a true rebuild aside from maybe BC's first year, but that rebuild was short-lived because 1) the pieces added were either on the decline or had injury problems, and 2) we surprised ourselves (47-35) and decided to go all in without a full hand.

  15. #35
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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    It would have to be more than just Bargnani, since Amare's max contract will be $17+ mil, Bargnani is only due $8 mil this season and we would only be about $3 mil under the cap (not including Dorsey). Either we make room or make the salaries match 125% +100k.
    The Raptors could throw in Evans to balance it close enough to work. $13 million vs $16.9 million new max contract 56.1 X 30%

    13 x 1.25 = 16.3 + .1 = $16.4 plus $500K cash or Bargnani + Banks + Belinelli. Though I would prefer not give up Belinelli.
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  16. #36
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    Default not a chance

    i wouldn't make this deal even if i had a gun to my head. If we give up bargs for amar'e i will lose all faith in BC. Amare is very athletic yes but he will not have Nash along side him in toronto and we all know how much better Nash makes guys. If Bargs realizes he needs to get tougher and starts to rebound he could be an elite player in this league without a doubt. He has all the talent in the world and could be in a completely different league than amare.

  17. #37
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    Maybe BC is just doing Amare a favour, feigning interest to drive up his offers....

    sigh....I give up....

  18. #38
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    The Raptors could throw in Evans to balance it close enough to work. $13 million vs $16.9 million new max contract 56.1 X 30%

    13 x 1.25 = 16.3 + .1 = $16.4 plus $500K cash or Bargnani + Banks + Belinelli. Though I would prefer not give up Belinelli.
    Generally agree but just wanted to point out/nitpick two things:

    1) The first-year base salary for Amare's new max contract will be more than $16.9. Assuming the BRI (not cap) calculation leaves the max salary at anything less than $17.2 mil, Amare's first-year salary will be $17.2 mil (105% of his previous salary, $16,378,325)

    2) You can't make up the difference between salaries with cash, so it would likely have to involve Bargnani + Banks/Evans + one other.

  19. #39
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    Quote blaze89 wrote: View Post
    dont really see why we need to be wasting more cap space on a player thats basically the same, didnt we win only one playoff round with bosh? i can just imagine what we are thinking with amare.
    also we are basically in "re-building" mode anyway so why just do it the proper way like OKC through the draft? not like were gonna be a contending team in the next couple of years anyway even with amare
    i don`t think BC understands that we are in a `rebuilding`mode which is scary. bc thinks we are not far off. way to go to make us avoid getting harrison barnes or brendan knight and being mediocre.

  20. #40
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    Phoenix was interested in Amir (or so they say), so If they'll talk trade, they'll want at least Amir back.

    I'm not sure I'll bite on that (certainly not for max money), but what do I know, I'm no GM. Any of you guys willing to part with Amir for STAT? On what terms?

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