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Thread: Raptors Ink Amir Johnson To A Five-year, $34 Million Deal

  1. #61
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    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    The wrong with this statement is coming from your "original" post, our NBA genius. Calling "Speculative BS" vs "it can be argued" for same argument (overpaying Amir) is creating a hard contrast and being good example for your lovely words "change in position" at least in Turkish!.
    Context is important here. If you are going to argue this point, please post the rest of your speculative BS, and also note what followed "it can be argued". Again, I know English is not your native language, so perhaps arguing semantics here is a waste of time.

    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    Its bolded cuz it will show you how quickly a "Spaculative BS" can turn a fact (in a week) and how you turned "You were also wrong in your initial point that the Raptors will have to use their MLE on Amir Johnson" to "we just used our MLE on Amir" in a week also. This time "Facts" changed your "position" huh.
    Again, context is important here, because it did NOT turn from one to the other. I simply forgot weeks later how many Larry Bird years Amir had already acquired with the Pistons before the trade, which you can feel free to blast me for because I indeed was a moron there (and you can still feel free to change your attack to that and I will gladly accept it), but as always it's great that you snip off like 80-90% of the sentence before "we just used our MLE on Amir" because it was a "either A is true or else B just happened" statement. And no matter how moronic I was a night ago, B still didn't happen and you are still wrong. =P

    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    Sure , if ya want. Here is the your major factor you want me to post:

    "Not over 40M $, its 31.800.000 $ (last year on his contract has player option and CBA rules exclude option year at trade kicker). That makes his kicker about 4.700.000 $ ( if it is %15 on his contract, rumors say its max and %15) . If he waives some of his kicker, say %30 ( he cant waive all of it , sorry but its another CBA rules; max 1/3 i guess)"

    Above sentences was written to some one who was debating hedos kicker is $6M over the remaining 4 years (actually pathetic part of whole those things --> he is not being a "idiot" in our NBA genius eyes while he was way away of the value but when some one from other continental who try to show him its not as simple math as he implied is being an "idiot". [...] Look English is not my mother tongue, yea right but i know if some one start with "say" and finish with "i guess" in his sentence he most probably is not being sure about what the precise figure and trying not to impose misleading information.
    I didn't call the OP an idiot because not knowing that option years don't count toward the trade kicker is hardly a crime. If you had simply explained that, it would have been fine and you would have been the "genius". But instead, you paraded yourself being right over and over again in each of your posts, and then MADE UP a rule to support your argument. And you are silly if you think the problem was with the "say 30% [...] max 1/3 I guess" which is clearly an estimate and would be fine except it's not 10% or 20% or 30% or 40% or ANY percentage. I don't know how you still don't realize it was your "he cant waive all of it , sorry but its another CBA rules" that I was calling you out on. Sorry, but it's NOT another CBA rule. The actual rule is the traded player CAN waive as much of the trade kicker as necessary to make the trade work under the 125% +/- $100k trade salary matching rule. As in 100% if that's what it takes, or 0% if you don't need to waive it at all. Two completely different rules. One pulled out from your butt, and the other from the CBA.

    Quote Vellassco wrote: View Post
    At least he should not deserve to be calling idiot for his bona fide effort.
    Fine, you're not an idiot. You were simply being an ass to the original poster to whom you responded in that thread. If you can dish it, please be able to take it as well. So sorry that someone put you in your place. I consider this to be over since you said you were done.
    Last edited by Quixotic; Fri Jul 2nd, 2010 at 11:14 PM. Reason: removed extra "again"

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Rookie Realist's Avatar
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    Looks like Bargs is a steal, and everyone was bitching about that extension. Big men get paid, simple as that.

  3. #63
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    Quote Realist wrote: View Post
    Looks like Bargs is a steal, and everyone was bitching about that extension. Big men get paid, simple as that.
    Yeah, it's how it has always been. From Dampier to Yogi Stewart of Raptors lore to that useless guy the Knicks paid $5-6 mil to sit on the bench for multiple seasons (so useless I don't remember his name), and now the likes of Amir, Gooden, Frye, Darko, et cetera. Of course, Bargnani's fit is a different question altogether, but his deal is certainly FMV or potentially better.

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    Quote Realist wrote: View Post
    Looks like Bargs is a steal, and everyone was bitching about that extension. Big men get paid, simple as that.
    I wouldn't call him a steal. His contract is actually better than I originally thought He's making $8 million next season, which is fair. With Bargnani you're obviously paying for his offense. With Johnson, you're paying for defense, rebounding and hustle. Apparently around here, people don't think that's not worth paying a lot for. I disagree.

  5. #65
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't call him a steal. His contract is actually better than I originally thought He's making $8 million next season, which is fair. With Bargnani you're obviously paying for his offense. With Johnson, you're paying for defense, rebounding and hustle. Apparently around here, people don't think that's not worth paying a lot for. I disagree.
    I'm a big proponent of defense so I won't go into whether Amir's qualities are more valuable than Bargnani's qualities, but the biggest stickler for me is that Amir hasn't really shown the ability to play the kind of minutes Bargnani can. Good defensive players are very valuable, but you have to decide how much one of those is worth if he only averages 10 mpg, 15 mpg, 20 mpg, 25 mpg, etc. I think for Amir to justify his contract, he better be able to average 25+ mpg over an entire season (not just 4-6 games) at some point in his contract (the earlier the better) without much of a downgrade in his play. He is overpriced to me if he continues at ~15-20 mpg. He is FMV if he he manages ~25 mpg. And if he can average 30-35+, then he is a definite steal.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Sunday, July 4, 2010
    Some Synergy Sports Info

    A little more on Amir
    By ryan.wolstat
    Last Updated: July 3, 2010 2:30pm

    In his current minutes, Synergy Sports reveals Johnson is the 4th most effective player in the entire NBA at finishing pick and roll opportunities. He also ranks fourth in converting post-up opportunities and is one of the most productive finishers in transition.
    Link to comp article on my block linked below

    http://nba-25-15.blogspot.com/2010/0...gy-sports.html
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  7. #67
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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    I'm a big proponent of defense so I won't go into whether Amir's qualities are more valuable than Bargnani's qualities, but the biggest stickler for me is that Amir hasn't really shown the ability to play the kind of minutes Bargnani can. Good defensive players are very valuable, but you have to decide how much one of those is worth if he only averages 10 mpg, 15 mpg, 20 mpg, 25 mpg, etc. I think for Amir to justify his contract, he better be able to average 25+ mpg over an entire season (not just 4-6 games) at some point in his contract (the earlier the better) without much of a downgrade in his play. He is overpriced to me if he continues at ~15-20 mpg. He is FMV if he he manages ~25 mpg. And if he can average 30-35+, then he is a definite steal.
    You're quite right. Most of us that believe that this is a fair, if somewhat bloated, contract also believe that he will be able to adjust his game to play extended minutes. I'd like to see him average close to 30 mpg next season.

  8. #68
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You're quite right. Most of us that believe that this is a fair, if somewhat bloated, contract also believe that he will be able to adjust his game to play extended minutes. I'd like to see him average close to 30 mpg next season.
    30 would be great and obviously it would mean he would be starting. I still have some serious reservations that he can average 30 mpg over an entire season.

    Would he have to average 30 to start?

    My biggest concern are Q1, Q3 and Q4. Those are generally the 3 most important quarters of a game at least as I recall that is what the stats show. In fact I think NBA stats show that a team that wins Q3 has a statistically significant chance of winning the game.

    So to me to really contribute as a starter he has to be on the court sufficient minutes in Q1, Q3 and Q4. Seven minutes per quarter to me would be the minimum in those three quarters.

    Lets break it down

    Q1 - 7 - first seven minutes
    Q2 - 4 - last four minutes
    Q3 - 7 - first seven minutes
    Q4 - 7 - last seven minutes
    -----------------------------------
    Total 25 mpg
    --------------------

    To the extent he could increase to 32 mpg it could look like this

    Q1 - 9 - first nine minutes
    Q2 - 5 - last five minutes
    Q3 - 9 - first nine minutes
    Q4 - 9 - last nine minutes
    -----------------------------------
    Total 32 mpg
    ==================
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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