Ghostbuster's is awesome!!! ...And that's not too far off from what's happening in Raptorsland!Mess wrote:
P.S. I'm not going to lock up this thread (one of the other mods may choose to do so), I'm curious to see where this thread goes. But how 'bout we cut out all the talk of self love.
I'll take a shot and play both sides of the argument.
What Banks does well:
- Plays very good defense
- Makes open shots - highest EFG% of any of our PGs - albeit with a tiny sample size
- Posts up smaller guards
- Takes ball to the hoop well
- Takes care of the ball
What Banks doesn't do well
- Make 3s
- Distribute the ball
Now what are the biggest problems our perimeter players (and PGs specifically) have?
Playing defense and finishing at the hoop. In theory, putting Banks out there could help alleviate those issues. Also, wouldn't he be a good complement to Hedo? Let Hedo initiate the offense instead of having the ball dominant PGs out there? It's so crazy it just might work! It'll never happen, but Banks out there for 25 mins a game instead of Jose would probably help out the Raps a lot actually. It's funny how people moan about the Raps terrible perimeter defense but shoot down the idea of actually playing our best perimeter defender. GAWD I love playing the devil's advocate.
Oh and hi, this is my first post!
Welcome to RRF 007!
Banks has become something of an underground phenomenon around here. At one point he was a good defender, then he was a great defender and now, somehow magically, he has become our "BEST" defender?
The guy plays 11 minutes a game. No disrespect guys, but if he was really the shutdown defender you make him out to be, do you REALLY BELIEVE he'd be third on the depth chart of a team that gives up the most ppg in the NBA?
I appreciate the enthusiasm, but claiming that the scouts, the coaches and the GMs who looked at Banks and saw a benchwarmer are wrong and you are right seems more than a little arrogant to me.
1. He's not as good a defender as you claim him to be.
2. He's not a great perimeter shooter so he's not going to help the Raps spread the floor.
3. About the LAST thing the Raps need is another midrange jump-shooter!
Look, I like Banks too, but you can't simply deny reality because you don't want it to be true. There is NO WAY the Raps allow their "best perimeter defender" to sit on the bench all game, every game while they give up the worst per game average in the league. It just doesn't happen.
... and TRX: I don't expect you to agree with me, but asking for a straight answer and then brushing off that answer is rude. If you didn't want to hear it, then don't ask.
Perhaps that's why people would want him and not Banks. Plus he doesn't make $5M.b) have a lot of players to develop, but none at the PG spot
Well yes. This team (GM/Coach) could care less about defense. How many major trades/signings have been motivated for offense vs defense?
Go through his list of transactions. The only one that stands out is Jermaine O'Neal. Maaaaaybe Garbajosa and Parker, but that is a bit of a stretch. BC is an offensively minded exec, Triano is a offensively minded coach. Every team puts it value somewhere. The reasoning behind Banks not playing must be that they feel that his defense isn't worth enough to make up for his lesser offense. The Raptors have chosen to put their eggs in offensive basket. It hasn't worked. I'm not saying Banks would make them the Celtic's level defensively, but it would definitely make them better.
1. Maybe he isn't as great as we think he is. He's sure better than Calderon and Jack. Anyone can see that just from watching, forget stats. He stays in front of his man, isn't posted up easily, and doesn't gamble too much.
2. Raptors were 6th in 3PFG% last year. If Banks is on the floor, Weems isn't. You have put Turk and Bargs with him to spread the floor.
3. Another good mid-range jump shooter is fine on this team. You just balance your lineup as I said before.
Maybe starting is pushing it a bit,but I haven't read anything here yet that convinces me he shouldn't be our main back up and play 20 minutes a game. If you want to send a defensive message to the team, this is how you do it, bench Calderon and play Banks. They will get the message.
"When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
-Scudworth
@ geebee: I would hope he's better than a sieve defensively. He doesn't have to be fantastic to be better than tragically bad. Honestly, I'd play him if he was just above average at this point. But you can't find out which it is until you play him either way.
Coaches, GMs, and scouts are not infallible. They prove this point over and over again every year. To look at past results and say "Starting Calderon hasn't worked too well; it's possible giving Banks his minutes would be more productive" doesn't exude arrogance to me at all.
Oh, and I wouldn't expect Banks to play a huge role on offence. Too many players needed the ball in their hands last season, from Bosh to Turkoglu to Calderon to Jack. Turkoglu would have the ball in his hands more (it'd be nice to see if that works a lot better) and Banks would be responsible for finishing on cuts to the basket and knocking down open 16-23 ft jumpers.
If "brushing off" means rebutting your points, point by point, then I guess I brushed them off.
@ Mess: It's not exactly an either/or proposition. The Raptors already have Banks and will be paying him his $4.7m regardless. If the Raptors can swap them straight up, by all means, I'm all for that.
Last edited by TRX; Tue Jul 6th, 2010 at 11:03 AM.
Yeah, maybe all he needs is regular playing time to show he's a quality backup. He's obviously been in hamstrung by ignorant coaches only playing in 22 games (with averages of 9 and 11 mpg) for each of the past 2 seasons. How dare they hold him back?
But seriously, I sort of get what you're saying. The very few times I saw him play for the Raptors I found myself saying "hm he should play more". Maybe it was because he looked like Gary Payton when you compare him to Jose.
But the coaches see him every day. Out of the 109 games he's been on the Raptors' bench, he's played in 28 of them - just a shade under 25% of them. I'm not sure how you can have that much confidence in someone after only seeing them play 1 out of every 4 games (and for 10 minutes).
Though I imagine it's not the fact that you have confidence in him, it's the fact you've lost all of it for Jose and Jack. I don't think Banks is the answer - at all - but I assume you're thinking he is the only answer we currently have.
Last edited by Mess; Tue Jul 6th, 2010 at 11:04 AM.
... Hm, pretty much.
To sum it up in one sentence, he should be a better, possibly much better, option on defence and he shouldn't really drag down the offence much if the ball is in Turkoglu's hands. No harm in trying it out.
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