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Thread: What's Worse? Losing Bosh or Colangelo?

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    Default What's Worse? Losing Bosh or Colangelo?

    Isnt Colangelo going to be talking about his own contract come this fall or something?

    Either, I think Colangelo is more important to MLSE then BOSH.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    What's the Raptors record since Colangelo took over? What's their playoff record? How many times have they made the playoffs? These are the questions you must ask yourself before making such a statement.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What's the Raptors record since Colangelo took over? What's their playoff record? How many times have they made the playoffs? These are the questions you must ask yourself before making such a statement.
    Colangelo is more valuable. Everything Colangelo has done has hinged on Bosh. He was the main piece, he had input and was sought after for approval on every major transaction this team made.

    We need to see at least another 2-3 seasons of Colangelo without Bosh to see how he reacts and what moves he makes. Besides, who the hell is going to replace Bryan? It's a lot easier to replace very good players in this league than it is to replace elite executives.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    he's locked up through 2012
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What's the Raptors record since Colangelo took over? What's their playoff record? How many times have they made the playoffs? These are the questions you must ask yourself before making such a statement.
    YOu may wish to revised the questions: What was the Raptors Record prior to BC? How many times have the former GMs of Raptors taken their clubs ot the Playoffs? What resources did the prior GMs have and what results did they get from those resources? Compare APPLE TO APPLE not APPLE TO ORANGES. Then you will get a real result for BC.

    I think he's done great with what he had. He re-tooled the team right from when he took over. Made Bold moves. Parker was a great signing... other were not. No GM is perfect.. but BC is among the most competitive well connected GM in the league.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What's the Raptors record since Colangelo took over? What's their playoff record? How many times have they made the playoffs? These are the questions you must ask yourself before making such a statement.
    it's true. but, there have been rumours that mlse has had a decent sized ball and chain around bc's ankle.

    making him unable to unleash his full arsenal.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Rouge wrote: View Post
    YOu may wish to revised the questions: What was the Raptors Record prior to BC? How many times have the former GMs of Raptors taken their clubs ot the Playoffs? What resources did the prior GMs have and what results did they get from those resources? Compare APPLE TO APPLE not APPLE TO ORANGES. Then you will get a real result for BC.

    I think he's done great with what he had. He re-tooled the team right from when he took over. Made Bold moves. Parker was a great signing... other were not. No GM is perfect.. but BC is among the most competitive well connected GM in the league.
    I don't think that's fair. Colangelo was given a blank slate. He had no cap burdens. He entered this job with $20M in cap space and 1st overall draft pick. Colangelo was given a dream job. Cap space, roster space, a #1. That is perfect for a GM to build his vision from the get go. Colangelo has failed. If you want to compare him to anyone, compare him to Glen Grunwald. Glen also came into a good situation and had more success. If it were not for injuries to costly players he would have lasted longer.

    I hate to say it but if you think Colangelo done great with what he's had then you're missing some facts friend. Don't let his charisma and reputation fool you, let's judge him on his history here in Toronto and nothing else.

    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    it's true. but, there have been rumours that mlse has had a decent sized ball and chain around bc's ankle.

    making him unable to unleash his full arsenal.
    Where? Show me this report. If you go back to the press conference when he took the job one of the main things Colangelo and the Raptors brass stressed is that he was GM and President, he had full control over basketball decisions and was insured that the board would not interfere. He said he would not have taken the job otherwise, it was that important.
    Last edited by Apollo; Mon Jul 5th, 2010 at 04:33 PM.

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    BC is more valuable, his issue is his infatuation with Bargnani and endorsing Triano as coach. He brought in Jermain, TJ and Marion and when they all didn't get along with the team, he moved them out and he'd probably do the same with Jose and Hedo if he could so we know he's not afraid to admitting his makes. However Bargnani, he took him first over all and this is the one guy he is going to down with no matter what.

    I've always wondered if Triano coaching was more of a jackass Peddie and the board called as oppose to BC, but who knows.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Here's something to consider. You can find another big name manager, currently unemployed, to take over as GM but the cap prevents you from doing the same in finding a star player. I can list some big names available in the management world. I'm sure they would be interested if they were to be paid Colangelo's high price tag amount.

    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    BC is more valuable, his issue is his infatuation with Bargnani and endorsing Triano as coach. He brought in Jermain, TJ and Marion
    He gave away TWO 1st rounders trading for and trading away O'Neal.

    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    we know he's not afraid to admitting his makes.
    Who cares? When you make as many mistakes as he does it's pretty obvious where the problem is originating. Some things go without saying.
    Last edited by Apollo; Mon Jul 5th, 2010 at 04:39 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Apollo;25793]I don't think that's fair. Colangelo was given a blank slate. He had no cap burdens. He entered this job with $20M in cap space and 1st overall draft pick. Colangelo was given a dream job. Cap space, roster space, a #1. That is perfect for a GM to build his vision from the get go. Colangelo has failed. If you want to compare him to anyone, compare him to Glen Grunwald. Glen also came into a good situation and had more success. If it were not for injuries to costly players he would have lasted longer.
    QUOTE]

    You use Glen as an example and then place a excuse beside him to gett him off the hook i.e. "If it were not for injuries to costly players he would have lasted longer"
    P.s. Glen is now with the Knicks doing some lower mgmt tasks. Let me put it this way.
    Knicks have a worst history playoff drought then us at present.

    BC is worth more to the Raptors at this stage then BOSH -

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post

    Who cares? When you make as many mistakes as he does it's pretty obvious where the problem is originating. Some things go without saying.

    You wanna see mistakes: SEE KNICK,

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't think that's fair. Colangelo was given a blank slate. He had no cap burdens. He entered this job with $20M in cap space and 1st overall draft pick. Colangelo was given a dream job. Cap space, roster space, a #1. That is perfect for a GM to build his vision from the get go. Colangelo has failed. If you want to compare him to anyone, compare him to Glen Grunwald. Glen also came into a good situation and had more success. If it were not for injuries to costly players he would have lasted longer.
    While I don't think Colangelo has done a great job, by any means, I think the situation he came on board with looks A LOT better on paper than it did at the time. He had the 1st pick in the draft in a very weak draft with only 1 All-Star in the top twenty picks and the second best player was drafted 21st. He actually had, I believe $12 million in cap space (not $20 million) during a summer where there was very little to choose from, and really the ONLY free agent I had any real interest in spending money on was Nene, and he was a restricted free agent who had an injury history that made Chris Bosh look like AC Green.

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    to me i dont really care if we lose both of them. since their arrival weve made the playoffs twice and havent made it passed the first round anyway.......i say we turn a new leaf and say arevaderchi to both of them and dont let the door hit them in the ass on the way out..........maybe we should look into jerry colangelo he seems to know what the hell hes doing

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    Something else to consider that if BC leaves, who will replace him? Most likely the board will take back some influence and someone like Leo or Jack would be given the job.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    While I don't think Colangelo has done a great job, by any means, I think the situation he came on board with looks A LOT better on paper than it did at the time. He had the 1st pick in the draft in a very weak draft with only 1 All-Star in the top twenty picks and the second best player was drafted 21st. He actually had, I believe $12 million in cap space (not $20 million) during a summer where there was very little to choose from, and really the ONLY free agent I had any real interest in spending money on was Nene, and he was a restricted free agent who had an injury history that made Chris Bosh look like AC Green.
    The draft was weak but he had the #1 pick and there were a bunch of nice player coming out. I'm not dissing the pick overall, I'm just stating the fact that he entered into a good situation because someone else in here said otherwise.

    As for the cap:
    They entered the summer of 2006 at $35,954,855 and the cap that year was $53,135,000. That's $17.18M in cap space. So I was off a little but that's a lot closer to $20M than $12M.

    Source:
    http://web.archive.org - "HoopsHype.com" NBA.com


    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    Something else to consider that if BC leaves, who will replace him? Most likely the board will take back some influence and someone like Leo or Jack would be given the job.
    Do you think there is a fraction of a chance for that to happen? There are a bunch of good options out there, not including television personalities with zero experience. Kevin Pritchard just hit the market. I'm not a huge fan but he's done a lot more in recent years than Bryan.
    Last edited by Apollo; Mon Jul 5th, 2010 at 05:08 PM.

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    Colangelo is just what we, and MLSE, asked for. We don't want to troll the bottom ofthe league rebuilding so we try to take a shot each year. In the process, the Leafs and Raps finish just out of the playoffs most years. In the last 7 years, they are 2 for 14 tries. So, we get BC trying to please Bosh the way that Grunweld did Carter, and both were unsuccessful.
    What BC is good at is finding a way to get something interesting done. Hedo was interesting, at the time. This year, he might get a huge trade exception for Bosh and reload with a bunch of new faces, though without any stars. He finds himself room to stay in the game. You have to admit, the GM moves have been more interesting than the team in the time that BC has been here. Don't count him out yet! With a trade exception, he can overpay for a few more guys. If he manages to get Noah out of the Bulls, we'll think of it as a great success. I'd personally like him to take Noah and Deng. He'll find a way to dump Hedo down the line. Maybe by agreeing to take Deng, he'll get Noah and the Bulls will just sign Haywood or someone else. That will let the Bulls grab Bosh and James as well as Haywood. We get Noah, Deng, and we are considerably better. Deng is going to come back healthy this year and be an 18 and 8 player. I'd even move Jack with Bosh if that helped, though the Bulls won't want the salary. I am a Jose fan, so I am in denial about Jack being a better overall player.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The draft was weak but he had the #1 pick and there were a bunch of nice player coming out. I'm not dissing the pick overall, I'm just stating the fact that he entered into a good situation because someone else in here said otherwise.

    As for the cap:
    They entered the summer of 2006 at $35,954,855 and the cap that year was $53,135,000. That's $17.18M in cap space. So I was off a little but that's a lot closer to $20M than $12M.

    Source:
    http://web.archive.org - "HoopsHype.com" NBA.com
    The Hoopshype link is not entirely accurate. First of all, it doesn't take into consideration the cap hold the 1st overall pick has. And Pap Sow's salary isn't on there. I'm pretty sure it was at the most $12 million, because I remember that Anthony Parker and Garbajosa's salaries pretty much ate it all up, and they were signed for about $4.5 million each, I recall correctly.

    As for the draft, not all #1 picks are the same, and I think you know it. If they had gotten the #1 pick 2 or 3 years before, then the franchise would certainly not be in the straits they are in right now. You say there were a number of nice players coming out, but realistically, how many choices were there? Of the top ten players drafted, HALF didn't even have their option picked up, meaning they're not even worth what their rookie contract is paying them. That is certainly not the sign of a strong draft.

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    [QUOTE=EaseMyPain;25822]Colangelo is just Don't count him out yet! With a trade exception, he can overpay for a few more guys. If he manages to get Noah out of the Bulls, we'll think of it as a great success. I'd personally like him to take Noah and Deng. He'll find a way to dump Hedo down the line. Maybe by agreeing to take Deng, he'll get Noah and the Bulls will just sign Haywood or someone else.

    wow !!

    maybe we can trade jose for cp3 and 5 1st round draft picks ??
    then trade bargs for dwight

    dude lay off the bud !

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Kevin Pritchard just hit the market. I'm not a huge fan but he's done a lot more in recent years than Bryan.
    I'd be shocked if the Raptors hired Pritchard. It's not exactly a case of them thinking they can do a better job managing his ego than his previous owner. If he wants to be a senior analyst/scout, sure, but I'd be shocked if any team hired him as GM this off-season.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was at the most $12 million, because I remember that Anthony Parker and Garbajosa's salaries pretty much ate it all up, and they were signed for about $4.5 million each, I recall correctly.
    If we count Bargnani's cap hold, and there's absolutely no reason not to if we're talking about cap space here, it pretty much puts us at the $12 mil figure. The only way we had $17 mil cap space that off-season is if after drafting Bargnani, we decided not to sign him, which is simply absurd.

    The situation BC came into certainly was not a bad one, and should definitely be classified as a good situation. At the same time, it wasn't as slam dunk as having the #1 draft pick in almost any other year. Certainly, he should be criticized for not bringing about the success he was tasked with, but it wasn't like he overlooked Durant and then busted on the FA market.

    That off-season was a pretty good one, and to always fall back on the strength (or lack thereof) of our division is a huge cop-out. While other teams in our division had a combined -10 win shift (almost all of it was NJ), we had a +20 win shift, so we were still beating teams outside of our division. The point remains that even if we got a few free wins that season, we were still winning a lot of games that we would have lost the season prior. If anything, the problem was our quick reversal in the standings. The high expectations combined with Garbajosa's absence turned the team into a mediocre one intent on quick fixes.

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