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Thread: Raptors Need to Consider Beasley

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    Raptors Republic Rookie chiddyy33's Avatar
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    Default Raptors Need to Consider Beasley

    Raps need to get on beasley
    i honestly think he isa great player with lots of potential and has just taken a bad rap in the last season or so
    either way it seems as if miami wants to/will dish him off for anything they can get there hands on.....

    turk
    cald
    or
    bosh
    cald

    for
    beasley
    chalmers
    and picks


    this needs to happen
    our best option

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Realist's Avatar
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    He's immensely talented, has tremendous upside, but we all know BC hates guys who score low on the character and chemistry scale. Beasley couldn't have been given away to 28 other teams this passed off-season, that has to tell you something we the fans don't know, that everyone in the leagues inner circles know.

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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Talent-wise, he's a good player, but somehow everybody seems to hate him.

    I can't understand how a guy who just finished his second year putting up pretty good numbers gets to have such a bad rap. I wouldn't have an issue with Beasley coming here, he's got some personal character issues but it's not like he's a disruptive player who's looking to cause shit.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    There has been some reporting/speculation that Beasley actually has a medical condition (bipolar disorder) which lends to severe mood swings. I dont think this mixes very well when he is also known to enjoy a few hits of the weed. He was hospitalized prior to the past season and the reasons were not officially released. Pity (and kind of dicey for trade purposes) if true.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Here are some Heat numbers from last season for Beasley. From this it seems pretty clear that the Heat were a better team with him off the court then they were with him on the court especially on defense. Even on the offense the Heat were better with Beasley off the court then they were with him on the court.


    Stat------------------------------ON Court--------OFF Court-------Net
    ================================================== ==========
    Minutes----------------------------2326---------------1648--------58.00%
    Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.------107.3--------------109.4--------(2.2)
    Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.------107.3--------------102.4---------5.0
    Net Points per 100 Possessions--(0.1)-----------------7.0--------(7.1)
    Effective FG%-------------------49.60%-------------49.50%-------0.10%
    Effective FG% Allowed---------49.30%-------------46.10%-------3.20%

    http://www.82games.com/0910/09MIA11.HTM
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    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    The thing I remember from watching a few Heat games is that he was always benched in the 4th quarter. I know that's not rare for a 2nd year player but the announcers always seemed to bring it up.

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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Ah yes, the on/off stats. Since when did they become the Bible of player evaluation? According to on/offs, the Heat fared better when Udonis Haslem was off the court on both offense and defense. The FG% on both sides bear that out too, try telling that to Pat Riley. J.J. Hickson's on/offs are brutal, but he still was a big part of the Cavs second unit all season.

    I'm not dismissing the stat, but putting it out there as final proof of Beasley's suckiness doesn't sound right. The guy obviously has talent, there's no denying that.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Ah yes, the on/off stats. Since when did they become the Bible of player evaluation? According to on/offs, the Heat fared better when Udonis Haslem was off the court on both offense and defense. The FG% on both sides bear that out too, try telling that to Pat Riley. J.J. Hickson's on/offs are brutal, but he still was a big part of the Cavs second unit all season.

    I'm not dismissing the stat, but putting it out there as final proof of Beasley's suckiness doesn't sound right. The guy obviously has talent, there's no denying that.
    We just totally disagree on how to value basketball players. Fair enough and maybe we should leave it at that. People either like to use advanced stats in valuing athletes or they don't like to use them. The two types are world's apart. You can't have a intelligent discussion or debate between a person who relies extensively on advanced stats and in combination with what he sees on the court and a person who relies on simple stats and what he sees on the court. The reason is simple. They two advocates are looking for different things when they watch a game.

    As to who is correct there is no way to prove that unless both parties agree on a way to determine that, which in the case of the those that rely on advanced stats as opposed to those that rely on simple stats is impossible.

    So the whole discussion becomes a total waste of time and energy on both parties parts.

    Are you going to Amir's signing party on Friday?
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Tue Jul 6th, 2010 at 11:47 PM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Is he above average defensively? No? Then I don't see why he should be on the Raptors.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Is he above average defensively? No? Then I don't see why he should be on the Raptors.
    Do we even have an average defender on this roster? Maybe Sonny? Bargs isn't too bad either, despite what the fan base leads you to believe.

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    Quote Realist wrote: View Post
    Do we even have an average defender on this roster? Maybe Sonny? Bargs isn't too bad either, despite what the fan base leads you to believe.
    Sonny and Amir are good defenders. Belinelli, despite his inconsistency, is actually a pretty good defender. Jack is at least average. Davis and Alabi hopefully will be good defenders. Bargnani certainly is NOT a good defender. He's a pretty good post defender, when motivated, but he struggles against face up players, doesn't box out, and is an absolutely, positively horrible team defender. I'm sorry, but there''s simply no debating this. Even Colangelo admitted this.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    i think we are in to see a change from bc now that bosh is leaving he's saying now i'm going to build this team my way and stop trying to build around this guy.

    i'm interested to say the least.
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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    We just totally disagree on how to value basketball players. Fair enough and maybe we should leave it at that. People either like to use advanced stats in valuing athletes or they don't like to use them. The two types are world's apart. You can't have a intelligent discussion or debate between a person who relies extensively on advanced stats and in combination with what he sees on the court and a person who relies on simple stats and what he sees on the court. The reason is simple. They two advocates are looking for different things when they watch a game.

    As to who is correct there is no way to prove that unless both parties agree on a way to determine that, which in the case of the those that rely on advanced stats as opposed to those that rely on simple stats is impossible.

    So the whole discussion becomes a total waste of time and energy on both parties parts.

    Are you going to Amir's signing party on Friday?
    I value advanced stats, I just don't think they're authoritative which many find them to be. I did give two examples to support what I said, I'm sure you can give me other examples to support what you say, which really means they're to be taken with a grain of salt.

    Depending on where it is, I might swing by.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Arse:
    -------------
    I agree with you about HIckson's hands though after watching K. Brown play more than I ever wanted to Hickson's hands are not all that bad by comparison Though I am not sure what Hickson's hands have to do with Beasley. Maybe you can help me out in understanding the connection.

    As far as Haslem goes he is a slightly above average PF. I think his minutes are elevated for three reasons.

    1. He is tight with Wade so that influences his playing time etc.
    2. He is liked by the other players and coaches and from what I understand is a positive locker room influence.
    3. The Heat had no superior big to play in his stead.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Wed Jul 7th, 2010 at 07:48 AM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Arse:
    -------------
    I agree with you about HIckson's hands though after watching K. Brown play more than I ever wanted to Hickson's hands are not all that bad by comparison Though I am not sure what Hickson's hands have to do with Beasley. Maybe you can help me out in understanding the connection.

    As far as Haslem goes he is a slightly above average PF. I think his minutes are elevated for three reasons.

    1. He is tight with Wade so that influences his playing time etc.
    2. He is liked by the other players and coaches and from what I understand is a positive locker room influence.
    3. The Heat had no superior big to play in his stead.
    Who mentioned Hickson's hands? I didn't.

    And yes, Haslem is a slightly above average PF, but isn't that what Johnson is at best too? At least at this point in his career?

    Look at their head-to-head last year (PER36 and Advanced). They had very comparable seasons. Udonis did play more minutes, but so would have Amir if he had managed to stay on the court. It's not like there's a minutes bias from the coach here, simple matter of being able to stay on the court.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...y.cgi?id=IRWlt

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    If we get Beasley he may just kill himself.....

    Seriously bad bad idea...I agree he is a good player and a GREAT talent...

    but he is crazy like Delonte....Why don't want that with the young guns/rebuilding mode.....

    Beasley going through customs 41 times year will get him arrested when the dogs smell his shoes....

    Unless you can move him on day 1 you can't trade for this guy...

    He is too crazy.......

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    We all know how much of a hard ass Riley is, as soon as Beasley and Chalmers were busted smoking pot at the rookie summit they were pretty much exodus. I think Beasley is a serious talent with loads of potential, but I have to applaud BC for not wanting him, BC is turning this team around from top to bottom with class. There's no point in bringing in guys who have questions marks surrounding them when you got a solid core of rookies who could possibly be tainted. I'm looking forward to watching this core develop over the next couple years!

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    Buddha, check Durant's plus/minuses from the last year, the Thunder did better offensively and defensively when he was on the bench. Mayo's defensive numbers were brutal this past year as well as Tyreke's, but both are going to be lockdown guys in thier careers.

    Beasely has just had a epically bad adjustment from college to the NBA. He reminds of Artest without the rage, which isn't a great thing, but he needs a patient organization and the opportunity to grow and make mistakes.

    No one who defends Bargs needing another year to get it can ever slam Beasely after he's only had two. Not taking back Beasely in a S&T will be one of the biggest blunders in franchise history.

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    Curious where you saw Durant's on/off court numbers. 82games has the Thunder at scoring 112.2 and giving up 104.8 per 100 possessions when he's on the court and scoring 97.7 and giving up 107.5 when he's off. So +14.5 on offence and marginally better (-2.7 on defence) for a +17.2 net effect.

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    Haha, sorry to clarify I meant last year as in two seasons ago, still caught up in this past season. Durant is the future, I would take him over any player in the NBA bar none, but in the 08/09 season the stats showed the Thunder were somehow better with him on the bench.

    In the 08/09 season

    Offense: Pts per 100 Poss. On court 103.2, off court 103.9
    -0.7
    Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. On court 112.6, Off court 104.4
    +8.2

    I don't think these are an indictment of advanced stats or Durant, but rather a realization that players need a couple years in the league to adjust before they are making positive contributions to the team and not just putting up big numbers.

    I watch Beasely all the time and he has all the tools to be extremely successful in the NBA, but even two years in he is still has a long way to go, but as Durant showed it only takes a year for a player to make a significant leap in effectiveness.

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