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Thread: Should the Raptors Pursue a S&T with Miami?

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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Default Should the Raptors Pursue a S&T with Miami?

    The new poll on the site asks this question:

    http://raptorsrepublic.com/

    I say, yes. Michael Beasley is a talent we can either use or ship in a trade. Mario Chalmers is a backup PG which we need once we ship out Jose Calderon.

    With Bosh gone, Amir re-signed, and our cap-holds released, we have about $2M of salary-cap space which doesn't mean a thing so to say that the cap space released by Bosh walking away is going to come to use is unrealistic.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    If Bosh has already agreed to a deal that apparently is a straight sign what incentive does Miami have for offering to change it to a S&T?

    I see no reason that the Heat would give up anything if Bosh isn't asking them to. It is clear that Bosh has cut all ties with Canada so I really don't understand the reason behind the poll.

    Clarification would be appreciated.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    If Bosh has already agreed to a deal that apparently is a straight sign what incentive does Miami have for offering to change it to a S&T?

    I see no reason that the Heat would give up anything if Bosh isn't asking them to. It is clear that Bosh has cut all ties with Canada so I really don't understand the reason behind the poll.

    Clarification would be appreciated.
    Bosh is certainly not going to refuse to accept the extra money and year on his contract. The idea is to make it worth Miami's while, too. Yes, I am self promoting here, but instead of typing out my argument again and again, I wrote it on my blog once...
    http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...anything-back/

    The idea is that if the Raptors agree to take Beasley back, it gives the Raptors a little leverage and gives the Heat incentive to do a deal.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bosh is certainly not going to refuse to accept the extra money and year on his contract. The idea is to make it worth Miami's while, too. Yes, I am self promoting here, but instead of typing out my argument again and again, I wrote it on my blog once...
    http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...anything-back/

    The idea is that if the Raptors agree to take Beasley back, it gives the Raptors a little leverage and gives the Heat incentive to do a deal.
    Hi Tim,

    If the Heat are still pursuing LeBron then I can see why they'd be happy if we took Beasley, but I don't see what would compel them to take anything back in the trade. I would submit that offering to take Beasley is the only thing that would make Riley consider a S&T at all. Why would he take back pieces if he's trying to get rid of one?

    I agree with Buddhafan. Riley has Bosh. He really doesn't need anything else of us.

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    Quote geebee wrote: View Post
    Hi Tim,

    If the Heat are still pursuing LeBron then I can see why they'd be happy if we took Beasley, but I don't see what would compel them to take anything back in the trade. I would submit that offering to take Beasley is the only thing that would make Riley consider a S&T at all. Why would he take back pieces if he's trying to get rid of one?

    I agree with Buddhafan. Riley has Bosh. He really doesn't need anything else of us.
    As I said in the post, Beasley is a bad fit for the Heat. He's not a role player, which is what the Heat need. His best attribute is scoring, which they already have enough of. The Heat may very well would rather have Calderon, or best case scenario, Turkoglu, than Beasley, since they would fit in better as a role players.

    The whole point is that the Heat don't want Beasley, and may agree to take back longer, bigger contracts of players who would fit in better in order to get rid of him.

    Quote f91ultra wrote: View Post
    We need Beasley in the S&T, if not, then we'll be under the cap and lose our MLE (Kleiza?).

    Though if we're truly rebuilding then that doesn't matter really..
    Simply put, if the Raptors are under the cap less than what the MLE is worth, they can still use the MLE. If they are under the cap more than the MLE, then obviously it doesn't matter.

    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You are dancing around the reality as I understand it.

    Bosh has already accepted the Miami offer and it doesn't include a S&T. That is my understanding.

    Not everyone is as greedy as you make them out
    Bosh has verbally agreed to a deal. He hasn't signed anything, and if the Raptors can make it worth everyone's while, then he's not going to turn down all that extra money, is he?

    Besides, I haven't seen a player turn down more money in a long, long time. Wasn't it Bosh who refused to take less money so that he, Lebron and Wade could team up?

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    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bosh has verbally agreed to a deal. He hasn't signed anything, and if the Raptors can make it worth everyone's while, then he's not going to turn down all that extra money, is he?

    Besides, I haven't seen a player turn down more money in a long, long time. Wasn't it Bosh who refused to take less money so that he, Lebron and Wade could team up?
    Exactly, on ESPN they didn't even say how many years they were signing for, let alone the dollar amount - only that they'll both be playing for Miami next year. I know they said that winning is everything and they're both not concerned about the money - but we'll see what happens when it comes time to put their names on the dotted line.

    I didn't hear anything from Bosh about wanting to be a centerpiece and not an addition this afternoon. Maybe Riley won't be hearing anything about him taking less money tomorrow.

    I think it was partly a move to step up their pitch to Lebron - since NY made the first move and got Amare.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bosh is certainly not going to refuse to accept the extra money and year on his contract. The idea is to make it worth Miami's while, too. Yes, I am self promoting here, but instead of typing out my argument again and again, I wrote it on my blog once...
    http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...anything-back/

    The idea is that if the Raptors agree to take Beasley back, it gives the Raptors a little leverage and gives the Heat incentive to do a deal.
    You are dancing around the reality as I understand it.

    Bosh has already accepted the Miami offer and it doesn't include a S&T. That is my understanding.

    Not everyone is as greedy as you make them out
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You are dancing around the reality as I understand it.

    Bosh has already accepted the Miami offer and it doesn't include a S&T. That is my understanding.

    Not everyone is as greedy as you make them out
    You think Bosh is less greedy than the average player? I would find that to be a shocking revelation.

    I think everyone is still playing poker, but all the cards are on the table. Riley has the wining hand, but in order to make everyone happy he has to give back some money so that they will come play again.

    He has been trying to unload Beasely and clearly doesn't want or need him with Bosh, it strategically makes sense for all parties involved so it really doesn't make sense why it won't happen.

    I assume BC is trying to get the raps pick back, but Riley wants to stubbornly hold onto it as a trophy of war.

    If BC can get the pick back he should also reserve the right to swap picks in any of the next 5 years.

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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    He has been trying to unload Beasely and clearly doesn't want or need him with Bosh, it strategically makes sense for all parties involved so it really doesn't make sense why it won't happen..
    Did you ever think that maybe Riley is better off trading Beasley on his own just to fill out the remaining holes in his roster?!

    If Riley some how convinced Bosh to leave 30 Million dollars on the table then he deserves GM of the year award before the seasons starts.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    If Bosh has already agreed to a deal that apparently is a straight sign what incentive does Miami have for offering to change it to a S&T?

    I see no reason that the Heat would give up anything if Bosh isn't asking them to. It is clear that Bosh has cut all ties with Canada so I really don't understand the reason behind the poll.

    Clarification would be appreciated.
    1) To move's Beasley's salary in order to sign either Lebron or other players.
    2) To convince Bosh to take a lower starting salary - but with 10% increases AND six years (instead of five). I *believe* (I need to confirm with Larry Coon) that this works. It therefore gives Miami more flexibility now, but also gives Bosh more certainty/money - but to do this it has to be a S&T.

    Miami could achieve both objectives and simply give us back our protected 1st round pick. Plus we would have a large TPE. This is a likely scenario and both teams would be getting something.
    (There are also potentially bigger deal such as what Bucher proposed - but are likley to complicated at this stage)

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    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    1) To move's Beasley's salary in order to sign either Lebron or other players.
    2) To convince Bosh to take a lower starting salary - but with 10% increases AND six years (instead of five).

    Miami could achieve both objectives and simply give us back our protected 1st round pick. Plus we would have a large TPE. This is a likely scenario and both teams would be getting something.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH i dont know what'z funnier, convincing a player to take less money or just giving away a 1st round draft pick....

    miami has nothing to gain when they already got bosh for nothing... if i was riley i would just not pick up my phone for the next 5 hours.. sign bosh and wade at 12:01a and done.

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    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    Yes indeed!

    We need to accumulate as much young talent and trade assets (TPE) as possible in order to give ourselves as many future options and possibilities to successfully rebuild this franchise.

    As it stands, we are approx. $2M from the salary cap which doesn't leave us with any money to sign any of the dozens of quality free agents that are presently available.

    I will be absolutely shocked if BC doesn't agree to a s&t deal for, at the very least, Beasley & a $12+M TPE.

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    Yeah, we need the S&T. Either a first rounder and Beasley and TPE, or just a conditional that has no chance of ever happening, plus the TPE. Failing to get at least a TPE would, in my opinion be a major failing on the part of Colangelo.

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    Raptors Republic Starter blaze89's Avatar
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    hell yes what about the rick buecher reporting? we need at the least to acquire a couple 1st rd picks and someone like chalmers i dont really care if we get beasley or not but hell yes we need to get something in return

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    I say yes. If they can get picks, a TPE and Beasley then that's pretty good. Even Beasley's biggest opponents must realize that he only has a year left on contract. That's low risk in my books and the Heat probably jump all over it to create more cap for other guys.

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    As far as I can tell Riley gave Bosh a reach around and told him not to go for a sign and trade and so Bosh told the Raptors to screw off.

    Either that or Colangelo is sticking it to Riley out of spite for raping him the second time. Colangelo will have alot of questions to answer to if he didn't wish to acquire anything back.

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    Absolutely, a S & T is necessary.
    I am not interested in 2-3 years of painfully watching the Raptors rebuild again!!!!!
    Take back Beasley, Chalmers , draft picks & Large TPE. Give them Calderon to seal the deal.
    Lets get Al Jefferson or Okafor & Collison and we will be OK.

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    Default Possible sneaky move by Pat Riley....

    I believe Riley and Wade wanted Bosh to say to the media that he's going to the Heat so they can corner Colengelo. Bosh gets his max deal and Riley benefits from forcing us to take his pieces. Just my 2 cents.

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    We need Beasley in the S&T, if not, then we'll be under the cap and lose our MLE (Kleiza?).

    Though if we're truly rebuilding then that doesn't matter really..
    Last edited by f91ultra; Wed Jul 7th, 2010 at 07:34 PM.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote f91ultra wrote: View Post
    We need Beasley in the S&T, if not, then we'll be under the cap and lose our MLE (Kleiza?).

    Though if we're truly rebuilding then that doesn't matter really..
    That's only correct if they renounce their exceptions.

    20. How do exceptions count against the cap? Does being under the cap always mean that a team has room to sign free agents? Do teams ever lose their exceptions?

    If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 29, 30, 31, 32). A team can't act like they're under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

    So being under the cap does not necessarily mean a team has room to sign free agents. For example, assume the cap is $49.5 million, and a team has $43 million committed to salaries. They also have a Mid-Level exception for $5 million and a Traded Player exception for $5.5 million. Even though their salaries put them $6.5 million under the cap, their exceptions are added to their salaries, putting them at $53.5 million, or $4 million over the cap. So they actually have no cap room to sign free agents, and instead must use their exceptions.

    Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room. So in the example above, if the team renounced their Traded Player and Mid-Level exceptions, then the $10.5 million is taken off their team salary, which then totals $43 million, leaving them with $6.5 million of cap room which can then be used to sign free agent(s).
    Source: Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ

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