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Thread: Should the Raptors Pursue a S&T with Miami?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie Priest's Avatar
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    I just dont think its a good idea for either team...I really don't see Lebron following Rupaul..I mean CB4 and Wade into Miami. If Riley sees this too, why would he trade his few assets in order to get a bigger contract for his new asset? Nah he is definitely going to go after surronding his new core with perimeter scoring and solid defensive players. As for Toronto, I dont see anything that would make me happy with a S&T, im happy with the core we have here and im set for watching it grow for the next however long it takes. If free agency is said and done tomorrow, should be a good season if Lebron signs with the Knicks...We get to watch 3 Batmans (Lebron, Wade, Kobe) with 3 Robins (Amare, Bosh, Gasol) way better then if the 3 idiots paired up in Miami to try and dominate IMO.

  2. #22
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    Quote geebee wrote: View Post
    Hi Tim,

    If the Heat are still pursuing LeBron then I can see why they'd be happy if we took Beasley, but I don't see what would compel them to take anything back in the trade. I would submit that offering to take Beasley is the only thing that would make Riley consider a S&T at all. Why would he take back pieces if he's trying to get rid of one?

    I agree with Buddhafan. Riley has Bosh. He really doesn't need anything else of us.
    As I said in the post, Beasley is a bad fit for the Heat. He's not a role player, which is what the Heat need. His best attribute is scoring, which they already have enough of. The Heat may very well would rather have Calderon, or best case scenario, Turkoglu, than Beasley, since they would fit in better as a role players.

    The whole point is that the Heat don't want Beasley, and may agree to take back longer, bigger contracts of players who would fit in better in order to get rid of him.

    Quote f91ultra wrote: View Post
    We need Beasley in the S&T, if not, then we'll be under the cap and lose our MLE (Kleiza?).

    Though if we're truly rebuilding then that doesn't matter really..
    Simply put, if the Raptors are under the cap less than what the MLE is worth, they can still use the MLE. If they are under the cap more than the MLE, then obviously it doesn't matter.

    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You are dancing around the reality as I understand it.

    Bosh has already accepted the Miami offer and it doesn't include a S&T. That is my understanding.

    Not everyone is as greedy as you make them out
    Bosh has verbally agreed to a deal. He hasn't signed anything, and if the Raptors can make it worth everyone's while, then he's not going to turn down all that extra money, is he?

    Besides, I haven't seen a player turn down more money in a long, long time. Wasn't it Bosh who refused to take less money so that he, Lebron and Wade could team up?

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Rookie Liston's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    If Bosh has already agreed to a deal that apparently is a straight sign what incentive does Miami have for offering to change it to a S&T?

    I see no reason that the Heat would give up anything if Bosh isn't asking them to. It is clear that Bosh has cut all ties with Canada so I really don't understand the reason behind the poll.

    Clarification would be appreciated.
    1) To move's Beasley's salary in order to sign either Lebron or other players.
    2) To convince Bosh to take a lower starting salary - but with 10% increases AND six years (instead of five). I *believe* (I need to confirm with Larry Coon) that this works. It therefore gives Miami more flexibility now, but also gives Bosh more certainty/money - but to do this it has to be a S&T.

    Miami could achieve both objectives and simply give us back our protected 1st round pick. Plus we would have a large TPE. This is a likely scenario and both teams would be getting something.
    (There are also potentially bigger deal such as what Bucher proposed - but are likley to complicated at this stage)

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    No,we have already said there is nothing in miami we want. honestly, when i think about it what is bosh's legecy here in toronto? a couple of playoff appeareance? where he got man handled by howard. Really we have gained nothing by him being here so if we gain nothing by him leaving does it really hurt the raptors! Here in toronto we don't respect "superstars"and their egos,let alone helping these "superstars" fill their egos, we respect hard work and loyality. If your making millions of dollars we expect that your grabing your lunch pail and putting in work, everyday, with some overtime!, matter of fact you shouldn't even be punching out . What I am really trying to say is, when I hear things like solomon alabi has been in the gym steady since he got here, it makes me think thats the type of big, matter a fact player I want here and if chris bosh is unhappy playing here in toronto, thats fine we don't want you here, peace! see ya! I hope you find what your looking for somewhere else!

    Toronto is one of the best cities in north america and this is a no nonsense city and country, if you play for us you better check the ego at the door and only bring your heart with you! Otherwise dont even put on the jersy.As they say its about the name on the front of the jersy, not the one on the back.

    my rant for the day

  5. #25
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    There must be some kind of deal in place between Bosh, Waade and Riley.
    I have ugly feeling that the deal is:

    "If Bron is coming, we'll do S/T with TO, otherwise they can go and f**k themselves,
    we need assets to compete."

  6. #26
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    Quote Priest wrote: View Post
    I just dont think its a good idea for either team...I really don't see Lebron following Rupaul..I mean CB4 and Wade into Miami. If Riley sees this too, why would he trade his few assets in order to get a bigger contract for his new asset? Nah he is definitely going to go after surronding his new core with perimeter scoring and solid defensive players. As for Toronto, I dont see anything that would make me happy with a S&T, im happy with the core we have here and im set for watching it grow for the next however long it takes. If free agency is said and done tomorrow, should be a good season if Lebron signs with the Knicks...We get to watch 3 Batmans (Lebron, Wade, Kobe) with 3 Robins (Amare, Bosh, Gasol) way better then if the 3 idiots paired up in Miami to try and dominate IMO.
    You don't think, at the very least, the trade exception and the Raptors draft pick back would make you happy with a sign and trade. And at the most, ridding the Raptors of Turkoglu, as well as getting a nice, defensive backup PG, and possibly two draft picks, the Raptors, and another one maybe in the 20's next year?

    It's not as if the Raptors are being asked to take back anything they don't want. There is absolutely not advantage to not doing a sign and trade for the Raptors.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bosh has verbally agreed to a deal. He hasn't signed anything, and if the Raptors can make it worth everyone's while, then he's not going to turn down all that extra money, is he?

    Besides, I haven't seen a player turn down more money in a long, long time. Wasn't it Bosh who refused to take less money so that he, Lebron and Wade could team up?
    Exactly, on ESPN they didn't even say how many years they were signing for, let alone the dollar amount - only that they'll both be playing for Miami next year. I know they said that winning is everything and they're both not concerned about the money - but we'll see what happens when it comes time to put their names on the dotted line.

    I didn't hear anything from Bosh about wanting to be a centerpiece and not an addition this afternoon. Maybe Riley won't be hearing anything about him taking less money tomorrow.

    I think it was partly a move to step up their pitch to Lebron - since NY made the first move and got Amare.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Rookie Priest's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You don't think, at the very least, the trade exception and the Raptors draft pick back would make you happy with a sign and trade. And at the most, ridding the Raptors of Turkoglu, as well as getting a nice, defensive backup PG, and possibly two draft picks, the Raptors, and another one maybe in the 20's next year?

    It's not as if the Raptors are being asked to take back anything they don't want. There is absolutely not advantage to not doing a sign and trade for the Raptors.
    There are definitely advantages if an S&T happens particularly with the picks and exceptions but...If Bosh has been convinced to sign straight up for less so Riley can build a better team then no S&T is happening. I guess what i tried to say is its not the end of the world to me, personally I like the Raptors right now because its a team with so much potential, why bother adding Chalmers or Beasley when we can work out some potentially better deals with other teams later on in the offseason. Not everything has to be done in the first 2 weeks of free agency. Correct me if im wrong but isnt our pick lottery protected anyways this year? And if we keep Hedo and he manages to up his trade value right until the deadline by playing better we could grab a late first rounder from a team that is playoff bound and would love his presence. OK maybe a 2nd rounder but who knows, all i know is that Miami is probably going to use their assets for other things now

  9. #29
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    Honestly, I think we need to really build Turkoglu's trade value, then ship him. That should be Toronto's priority. By the time this team is ready to compete, he'll be virtually done and he's doing two things to the team right now. He's taking up a lot of cap room and he's unhappy without doing a lot of the on the ball creating. One hurts the team's roster flexibility, the other hurts the Raptors' ability to develop a playmaker to do most of the ball handling when he's gone/retired.

    This Bosh S&T thing isn't really that big a deal because with Bosh verbally agreeing to go to Miami, Toronto has lost what little leverage it had. The return will be poor no matter what. Bosh isn't going to hold out on Miami for the sixth year, I wouldn't think. If he's shrewd enough to announce this to the world, then privately pressure Miami to get the sign-and-trade or it flops... then so be it. We sit back. Either way, we let them come to us or not come at all.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Rookie Priest's Avatar
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    Apparently on my twitter feed there is a RUMOUR from ESPN radio in florida that an S&T is in place for tomorrow where Toronto lands Beasley and 2 1st rd Draft picks...im still looking for a website but that isnt so bad i guess if its true

  11. #31
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    Quote Priest wrote: View Post
    why bother adding Chalmers or Beasley when we can work out some potentially better deals with other teams later on in the offseason. Not everything has to be done in the first 2 weeks of free agency. Correct me if im wrong but isnt our pick lottery protected anyways this year? And if we keep Hedo and he manages to up his trade value right until the deadline by playing better we could grab a late first rounder from a team that is playoff bound and would love his presence. OK maybe a 2nd rounder but who knows, all i know is that Miami is probably going to use their assets for other things now
    If the Raptors do nothing else and don't do a sign and trade, they will be barely under the cap, certainly not enough to take back salary. With a trade exception, the Raptors would be able to help teams looking for cap relief, or perhaps package a smaller contract for a bigger one. The point is they have more flexibility with a trade exception.

    And if Toronto can give the Heat something they can use, like TUrkoglu or Calderon, they they very well might bite.

  12. #32
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote Priest wrote: View Post
    Apparently on my twitter feed there is a RUMOUR from ESPN radio in florida that an S&T is in place for tomorrow where Toronto lands Beasley and 2 1st rd Draft picks...im still looking for a website but that isnt so bad i guess if its true
    Michael Grange just had this to say via Twitter:

    And now some pretty solid confirmation from a pretty solid source: S and T for Beasley NOT in play right now.

  13. #33
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    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    1) To move's Beasley's salary in order to sign either Lebron or other players.
    2) To convince Bosh to take a lower starting salary - but with 10% increases AND six years (instead of five).

    Miami could achieve both objectives and simply give us back our protected 1st round pick. Plus we would have a large TPE. This is a likely scenario and both teams would be getting something.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH i dont know what'z funnier, convincing a player to take less money or just giving away a 1st round draft pick....

    miami has nothing to gain when they already got bosh for nothing... if i was riley i would just not pick up my phone for the next 5 hours.. sign bosh and wade at 12:01a and done.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    And if Toronto can give the Heat something they can use, like TUrkoglu or Calderon, they they very well might bite.
    why would ANY TEAM want to take jose or hedo's contract off our hands?

    what would make miami want to to pay jose $30 million over the next 3 years or hedo $40 million over the next 4 years ?

    who would want to pay that when they already have 2 max players ?

    aint nobody gona bite on nothing

  15. #35
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    And if Toronto can give the Heat something they can use, like TUrkoglu or Calderon, they they very well might bite.
    I still don't see the logic in stating that the Heat would want to give up one large contract (Beasley) only to replace it with another (Turkoglu).

    Miami wants to get rid of Beasley's contract and trade away Chalmers and a pick so that they can maximize their flexibility in building a team around Wade and Bosh. There's no way they're going to pick up Raptors castoffs, and there's REALLY no way they're going to offer Toronto back their pick.

    They wanted Bosh. They've got Bosh. What possible incentive could we offer them to take Calderon or Turk? It doesn't make any sense. The ONLY thing I could see Miami agreeing to is to give us Beasley and a trade exception. Beyond that is simply wishful thinking.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Rookie sunndog's Avatar
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    "Bosh's agent, Henry Thomas, reached out to Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo earlier Wednesday, after Bosh announced his decision, and now Riley and Colangelo are discussing a potential sign-and-trade, a league source told Broussard."

    -via ESPN NBA writing staff on ESPN Chicago

    Source - http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=5360911

    I only saw this for the first time tonight on hoopshype.com, and it was posted about 2 hours ago which makes me feel as though this is fairly legitimate.
    I've given a lot of thought to whether or not a sign and trade would be in the Raptors best interests. Considering where the Raptors are right now, in the middle of a serious rebuilding process, it is critical that the Raptors are able to get something back. Particularly draft picks. The Raptors have handcuffed themselves with 3 large contracts. In the event that neither Hedo, nor Jose leave Toronto the Raptors will need to build through the draft. Of particular importance is the Raptors draft pick in 2011. The Raptors should expect a difficult upcoming season and in the even that the Raptors don't make the playoffs it's absolutely vital that they have their lottery pick available to them. Beyond that everything's been said about the TPE and the Beasley situation has been discussed to death. Personally I would welcome Beasley. There's no threat beyond him having a negative effect in a young locker room with no veteran presence...(sh*t)...beyond that though there's no risk. He's still on his rookie contract and if he plays well to start the season he could very easily fall back into the good graces of league GMs. No matter how you spin it BC has to find a way to complete this S&T. Hopefully tomorrow will reveal more details.

  17. #37
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    Quote geebee wrote: View Post
    I still don't see the logic in stating that the Heat would want to give up one large contract (Beasley) only to replace it with another (Turkoglu).

    Miami wants to get rid of Beasley's contract and trade away Chalmers and a pick so that they can maximize their flexibility in building a team around Wade and Bosh. There's no way they're going to pick up Raptors castoffs, and there's REALLY no way they're going to offer Toronto back their pick.

    They wanted Bosh. They've got Bosh. What possible incentive could we offer them to take Calderon or Turk? It doesn't make any sense. The ONLY thing I could see Miami agreeing to is to give us Beasley and a trade exception. Beyond that is simply wishful thinking.
    Okay, let's break this down. Miami needs certain types of players around Wade and Bosh. Beasley is not that type of player. Miami has apparently attempted to unload Beasley and failed. Toronto can offer to take Beasley in exchange for a player who CAN play beside Bosh and Wade, like Calderon. Calderon would help the Heat far more than Beasley would. So would Turkoglu. Yes, it would mean taking on their longer contract, but the Heat are not exactly going to be saving for next season. Basically, if Toronto doesn't take Beasley, they may be stuck with him, and they'd still have to fill out their roster. If Toronto agrees to take Beasley for Calderon, for example, then they upgrade for only a couple more million and still have enough cap room to sign someone else.

    It is in Miami's best interests because they get a player who can help them now, fills a role much better than Beasley does, and still have enough left over for another player.

    Make sense?

  18. #38
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    It is in Miami's best interests because they get a player who can help them now, fills a role much better than Beasley does, and still have enough left over for another player.
    Make sense?
    Nope.

    Miami doesn't need "another" player. They need eight or nine. Giving up Beasley only to replace him with Calderon means they'd actually have LESS money to fill the remainder of the roster... and with all due respect, but if a lottery team like the Raps doesn't want Calderon, why do you think an instant contender like the Heat would want him? Everybody in the NBA has seen him play defence by now.

    And if the rumours about LeBron going to Miami are true, then they have even LESS reason to want an overpaid, backup PG with a long-term contract.

  19. #39
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    Quote geebee wrote: View Post
    Nope.

    Miami doesn't need "another" player. They need eight or nine. Giving up Beasley only to replace him with Calderon means they'd actually have LESS money to fill the remainder of the roster... and with all due respect, but if a lottery team like the Raps doesn't want Calderon, why do you think an instant contender like the Heat would want him? Everybody in the NBA has seen him play defence by now.

    And if the rumours about LeBron going to Miami are true, then they have even LESS reason to want an overpaid, backup PG with a long-term contract.
    Yes, they need eight or nine players, but at the very least, they need a few pretty good ones and then can fill out the rest of the roster with scrubs. Teams are overpaying for free agents and Miami is probably not going to be able to afford good players without overpaying. Calderon works well with Bosh, already, and can most definitely be a starter on a team with Wade and Bosh.

    I'm not saying it's a surefire plan, but it does make some sense.

  20. #40
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    Quote geebee wrote: View Post
    and with all due respect, but if a lottery team like the Raps doesn't want Calderon, why do you think an instant contender like the Heat would want him? Everybody in the NBA has seen him play defence by now.
    This is not a comment on why the Heat would want Calderon, but the whole "if a lottery team doesn't want so and so why would a contender want him" needs to be squashed. Obviously, different players fit different teams better. It's like saying Orlando should not have signed Barnes because Golden State didn't want him, or possibly the reverse, that every team should want Matt Bonner because San Antonio wanted him. There's a reason basketball is a team game.

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