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Should the Raptors Pursue a S&T with Miami?

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  • #16
    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You are dancing around the reality as I understand it.

    Bosh has already accepted the Miami offer and it doesn't include a S&T. That is my understanding.

    Not everyone is as greedy as you make them out
    You think Bosh is less greedy than the average player? I would find that to be a shocking revelation.

    I think everyone is still playing poker, but all the cards are on the table. Riley has the wining hand, but in order to make everyone happy he has to give back some money so that they will come play again.

    He has been trying to unload Beasely and clearly doesn't want or need him with Bosh, it strategically makes sense for all parties involved so it really doesn't make sense why it won't happen.

    I assume BC is trying to get the raps pick back, but Riley wants to stubbornly hold onto it as a trophy of war.

    If BC can get the pick back he should also reserve the right to swap picks in any of the next 5 years.

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    • #17
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      Maybe. Colangelo is reported to be playing hard ball with the S&T scenarios. Bosh wants that extra $30M, everyone knows it and for that reason Bosh has to be leaning towards wanting the Heat to find something that makes Colangelo happy. Any way we spin it we're still talking about $30M on the table in a S&T scenario for Bosh and he's the guy who decides where he's going.
      I hope you are right because it will look pretty bad when an NBA player essentially gives up 30 million dollars to not to play in your city in favour of another.

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      • #18
        Well, there was a rumor that the reason why Bosh, LeBron and Wade couldn't land in Miami was because Bosh wasn't willing to give up max money like the other two because he doesn't make the same kind of endorsement money as them on the side. If that's true then who knows...

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        • #19
          mo-sales wrote: View Post
          He has been trying to unload Beasely and clearly doesn't want or need him with Bosh, it strategically makes sense for all parties involved so it really doesn't make sense why it won't happen..
          Did you ever think that maybe Riley is better off trading Beasley on his own just to fill out the remaining holes in his roster?!

          If Riley some how convinced Bosh to leave 30 Million dollars on the table then he deserves GM of the year award before the seasons starts.

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          • #20
            Exactly! I just can't really see Bosh leaving the $30 million. I hope Colangelo stays strong throughout this process. Just have to wait and see.

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            • #21
              I just dont think its a good idea for either team...I really don't see Lebron following Rupaul..I mean CB4 and Wade into Miami. If Riley sees this too, why would he trade his few assets in order to get a bigger contract for his new asset? Nah he is definitely going to go after surronding his new core with perimeter scoring and solid defensive players. As for Toronto, I dont see anything that would make me happy with a S&T, im happy with the core we have here and im set for watching it grow for the next however long it takes. If free agency is said and done tomorrow, should be a good season if Lebron signs with the Knicks...We get to watch 3 Batmans (Lebron, Wade, Kobe) with 3 Robins (Amare, Bosh, Gasol) way better then if the 3 idiots paired up in Miami to try and dominate IMO.

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              • #22
                geebee wrote: View Post
                Hi Tim,

                If the Heat are still pursuing LeBron then I can see why they'd be happy if we took Beasley, but I don't see what would compel them to take anything back in the trade. I would submit that offering to take Beasley is the only thing that would make Riley consider a S&T at all. Why would he take back pieces if he's trying to get rid of one?

                I agree with Buddhafan. Riley has Bosh. He really doesn't need anything else of us.
                As I said in the post, Beasley is a bad fit for the Heat. He's not a role player, which is what the Heat need. His best attribute is scoring, which they already have enough of. The Heat may very well would rather have Calderon, or best case scenario, Turkoglu, than Beasley, since they would fit in better as a role players.

                The whole point is that the Heat don't want Beasley, and may agree to take back longer, bigger contracts of players who would fit in better in order to get rid of him.

                f91ultra wrote: View Post
                We need Beasley in the S&T, if not, then we'll be under the cap and lose our MLE (Kleiza?).

                Though if we're truly rebuilding then that doesn't matter really..
                Simply put, if the Raptors are under the cap less than what the MLE is worth, they can still use the MLE. If they are under the cap more than the MLE, then obviously it doesn't matter.

                Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                You are dancing around the reality as I understand it.

                Bosh has already accepted the Miami offer and it doesn't include a S&T. That is my understanding.

                Not everyone is as greedy as you make them out
                Bosh has verbally agreed to a deal. He hasn't signed anything, and if the Raptors can make it worth everyone's while, then he's not going to turn down all that extra money, is he?

                Besides, I haven't seen a player turn down more money in a long, long time. Wasn't it Bosh who refused to take less money so that he, Lebron and Wade could team up?
                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                • #23
                  Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                  If Bosh has already agreed to a deal that apparently is a straight sign what incentive does Miami have for offering to change it to a S&T?

                  I see no reason that the Heat would give up anything if Bosh isn't asking them to. It is clear that Bosh has cut all ties with Canada so I really don't understand the reason behind the poll.

                  Clarification would be appreciated.
                  1) To move's Beasley's salary in order to sign either Lebron or other players.
                  2) To convince Bosh to take a lower starting salary - but with 10% increases AND six years (instead of five). I *believe* (I need to confirm with Larry Coon) that this works. It therefore gives Miami more flexibility now, but also gives Bosh more certainty/money - but to do this it has to be a S&T.

                  Miami could achieve both objectives and simply give us back our protected 1st round pick. Plus we would have a large TPE. This is a likely scenario and both teams would be getting something.
                  (There are also potentially bigger deal such as what Bucher proposed - but are likley to complicated at this stage)
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                  • #24
                    No,we have already said there is nothing in miami we want. honestly, when i think about it what is bosh's legecy here in toronto? a couple of playoff appeareance? where he got man handled by howard. Really we have gained nothing by him being here so if we gain nothing by him leaving does it really hurt the raptors! Here in toronto we don't respect "superstars"and their egos,let alone helping these "superstars" fill their egos, we respect hard work and loyality. If your making millions of dollars we expect that your grabing your lunch pail and putting in work, everyday, with some overtime!, matter of fact you shouldn't even be punching out . What I am really trying to say is, when I hear things like solomon alabi has been in the gym steady since he got here, it makes me think thats the type of big, matter a fact player I want here and if chris bosh is unhappy playing here in toronto, thats fine we don't want you here, peace! see ya! I hope you find what your looking for somewhere else!

                    Toronto is one of the best cities in north america and this is a no nonsense city and country, if you play for us you better check the ego at the door and only bring your heart with you! Otherwise dont even put on the jersy.As they say its about the name on the front of the jersy, not the one on the back.

                    my rant for the day

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                    • #25
                      There must be some kind of deal in place between Bosh, Waade and Riley.
                      I have ugly feeling that the deal is:

                      "If Bron is coming, we'll do S/T with TO, otherwise they can go and f**k themselves,
                      we need assets to compete."

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                      • #26
                        Priest wrote: View Post
                        I just dont think its a good idea for either team...I really don't see Lebron following Rupaul..I mean CB4 and Wade into Miami. If Riley sees this too, why would he trade his few assets in order to get a bigger contract for his new asset? Nah he is definitely going to go after surronding his new core with perimeter scoring and solid defensive players. As for Toronto, I dont see anything that would make me happy with a S&T, im happy with the core we have here and im set for watching it grow for the next however long it takes. If free agency is said and done tomorrow, should be a good season if Lebron signs with the Knicks...We get to watch 3 Batmans (Lebron, Wade, Kobe) with 3 Robins (Amare, Bosh, Gasol) way better then if the 3 idiots paired up in Miami to try and dominate IMO.
                        You don't think, at the very least, the trade exception and the Raptors draft pick back would make you happy with a sign and trade. And at the most, ridding the Raptors of Turkoglu, as well as getting a nice, defensive backup PG, and possibly two draft picks, the Raptors, and another one maybe in the 20's next year?

                        It's not as if the Raptors are being asked to take back anything they don't want. There is absolutely not advantage to not doing a sign and trade for the Raptors.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                        • #27
                          Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          Bosh has verbally agreed to a deal. He hasn't signed anything, and if the Raptors can make it worth everyone's while, then he's not going to turn down all that extra money, is he?

                          Besides, I haven't seen a player turn down more money in a long, long time. Wasn't it Bosh who refused to take less money so that he, Lebron and Wade could team up?
                          Exactly, on ESPN they didn't even say how many years they were signing for, let alone the dollar amount - only that they'll both be playing for Miami next year. I know they said that winning is everything and they're both not concerned about the money - but we'll see what happens when it comes time to put their names on the dotted line.

                          I didn't hear anything from Bosh about wanting to be a centerpiece and not an addition this afternoon. Maybe Riley won't be hearing anything about him taking less money tomorrow.

                          I think it was partly a move to step up their pitch to Lebron - since NY made the first move and got Amare.
                          Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                          • #28
                            Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            You don't think, at the very least, the trade exception and the Raptors draft pick back would make you happy with a sign and trade. And at the most, ridding the Raptors of Turkoglu, as well as getting a nice, defensive backup PG, and possibly two draft picks, the Raptors, and another one maybe in the 20's next year?

                            It's not as if the Raptors are being asked to take back anything they don't want. There is absolutely not advantage to not doing a sign and trade for the Raptors.
                            There are definitely advantages if an S&T happens particularly with the picks and exceptions but...If Bosh has been convinced to sign straight up for less so Riley can build a better team then no S&T is happening. I guess what i tried to say is its not the end of the world to me, personally I like the Raptors right now because its a team with so much potential, why bother adding Chalmers or Beasley when we can work out some potentially better deals with other teams later on in the offseason. Not everything has to be done in the first 2 weeks of free agency. Correct me if im wrong but isnt our pick lottery protected anyways this year? And if we keep Hedo and he manages to up his trade value right until the deadline by playing better we could grab a late first rounder from a team that is playoff bound and would love his presence. OK maybe a 2nd rounder but who knows, all i know is that Miami is probably going to use their assets for other things now

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                            • #29
                              Honestly, I think we need to really build Turkoglu's trade value, then ship him. That should be Toronto's priority. By the time this team is ready to compete, he'll be virtually done and he's doing two things to the team right now. He's taking up a lot of cap room and he's unhappy without doing a lot of the on the ball creating. One hurts the team's roster flexibility, the other hurts the Raptors' ability to develop a playmaker to do most of the ball handling when he's gone/retired.

                              This Bosh S&T thing isn't really that big a deal because with Bosh verbally agreeing to go to Miami, Toronto has lost what little leverage it had. The return will be poor no matter what. Bosh isn't going to hold out on Miami for the sixth year, I wouldn't think. If he's shrewd enough to announce this to the world, then privately pressure Miami to get the sign-and-trade or it flops... then so be it. We sit back. Either way, we let them come to us or not come at all.

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                              • #30
                                Apparently on my twitter feed there is a RUMOUR from ESPN radio in florida that an S&T is in place for tomorrow where Toronto lands Beasley and 2 1st rd Draft picks...im still looking for a website but that isnt so bad i guess if its true

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