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Thread: SIGNING: Kleiza To Raptors (Update: Pg. 23/Post #183)

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    Default SIGNING: Kleiza To Raptors (Update: Pg. 23/Post #183)

    The Raptors have signed Nuggets restricted free agent forward Linas Kleiza to a four-year, $20 million offer sheet, according to Marc J. Spears of Yahoo! Sports.

    Kleiza terminated contract with Greece's Olympiacos Wednesday, but Denver will have seven days to match Toronto's offer.
    Source - Click here


    No wonder why Bosh left Raptors, the Euro madness continues. I can imagine when BC told CB4 his plans: We will sign Kleiza, please came back, we will be a contender! CB4: Huh? Is he better than Wade or LeBron? BC: Duhhh ... He is Euro!!!

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    Can we please stop with the fucking racism? No, I'm not European, but this is getting ridiculous. Just because a player is Euro does NOT mean any of the following:

    - He is unathletic
    - He is only good at zone defense and shooting
    - He is bad at defense
    - He is soft
    - He is not good enough for the NBA

    The value of this signing will be on whether or not Kleiza can contribute on the defensive end and the glass. If not, it is a poor signing.

    The timing is also odd. With the dust settling on major free agents, is it really a good idea to tie up our mid-level exception for 7 days?

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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    Can we please stop with the fucking racism? No, I'm not European, but this is getting ridiculous. Just because a player is Euro does NOT mean any of the following:

    - He is unathletic
    - He is only good at zone defense and shooting
    - He is bad at defense
    - He is soft
    - He is not good enough for the NBA

    The value of this signing will be on whether or not Kleiza can contribute on the defensive end and the glass. If not, it is a poor signing.

    The timing is also odd. With the dust settling on major free agents, is it really a good idea to tie up our mid-level exception for 7 days?
    I disagree. It has been proven that the European model does not work. Call it racism or whatever you want, but it is reality. I bet at this point these are the only players the Raptors can sign. Just a horrible team.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    I disagree. It has been proven that the European model does not work. Call it racism or whatever you want, but it is reality. I bet at this point these are the only players the Raptors can sign. Just a horrible team.
    The Spurs have used overseas players for as long as I remember and none of Duncan, Parker or Ginolbli are American born players and when was the last time they were not among the best teams in the league? A decade and a half ago?
    Pau and Mark Gasol are arguably two of the best power forwards in the game and Dirk was the best in the game a few years back.
    European players are not bad, and I would even argue that our team was made much better a few years back by the presence of guys like Garbojosa and Rasho. Using Europeans has it's problems but it is not any less likely to succeed than using american payers.

    I don't mind this signing if it goes through, not a terrible contract and he will be a good back up if we are keeping Hedo and could be a (weak) starter if we don't. I wonder what happens with Marco if we get this guy though since we'll have 5 swing men under contract.
    Last edited by hateslosing; Thu Jul 8th, 2010 at 09:33 AM. Reason: poor wording
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    The Spurs have used overseas players for as long as I remember and none of Duncan, Parker or Ginolbli are American born players and when was the last time they were not among the best teams in the league? A decade and a half ago?
    Pau and Mark Gasol are arguably two of the best power forwards in the game and Dirk was the best in the game a few years back.
    European players are not bad, and I would even argue that our team was made much better a few years back by the presence of guys like Garbojosa and Rasho. Using Europeans has it's problems but it is not any less likely to succeed than using american payers.

    I don't mind this signing if it goes through, not a terrible contract and he will be a good back up if we are keeping Hedo and could be a (weak) starter if we don't. I wonder what happens with Marco if we get this guy though since we'll have 5 swing men under contract.
    I didn't say European players were bad. I said you can't use the "European Model", which means you can't have a team with half to more then half the roster being Europeans. The strategy has failed for the last three years.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Jive's Avatar
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    The Denver Nuggets have seven days to match the contract – which is four years and $20 million. No indication what they might do but they’re fighting tax issues, let him go once and it would be no surprise if they didn’t let him walk.

    Who is he? A 6-8 small forward who played for Olympiakos in Greece last year after averaging 9.9 points a game with the Nuggets in 2008-09.

    He’s a role player, does nothing spectacularly well but does add some depth to a spot where the Raptors need it.

    The money seems about right, it takes almost all of Toronto’s mid-level exception out of play. The rest of the mid-level exception will go to Solomon Alabi, the second-round draft pick who’s going to get a bump from the minimum salary and a deal that’s multi-year but not fully guaranteed, I’m hearing.
    Little info on the signing and the player from Doug, he is also reporting that we are also trying to lock up Soloman for a longer term.

    Source: Doug Smith

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    I didn't say European players were bad. I said you can't use the "European Model", which means you can't have a team with half to more then half the roster being Europeans. The strategy has failed for the last three years.
    Considering Jose is likely gone and I wouldn't be surprised if Marco is packaged up somewhere in a deal too, that'll leave us with Bargs, Hedo and possibly Linas. Hardly half the roster. I think some of you are blowing the Euro/international thing way out of proportion because like some have mentioned, its the player, not where they are from.

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    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    I didn't say European players were bad. I said you can't use the "European Model", which means you can't have a team with half to more then half the roster being Europeans. The strategy has failed for the last three years.
    WRONG! This argument is totally and completely flawed. By the same argument I could say that you can't with an all American roster because of a team like Philadelphia, that didn't have a European player in the rotation.

    And in the last three years, the Raptors had the worst record when they had the fewest Europeans on the roster. In fact, in the 8 years since the Raptors last made the playoffs with Vince Carter, their best record was when they had the most Europeans in the rotation.

    The problem is not with the fact that the Raptors have Europeans on the roster it's WHO come of those Europeans are. If the Raptors had more Europeans like Garbajosa or Kleiza, gritty players who don't mind getting their hands dirty, and less Bargnani and Turkoglu, then the Raptors wouldn't have a problem.

    Ignorant fans need to get over this twisted belief that Europeans are the problem. Lack of talent, defense and rebounding are the problem. The two are not related as the more successful teams have proven. There are plenty of Europeans out there that are talented, play defense and rebound. It just so happens those are not the players that are on the Raptors, for the most part.

    As for Kleiza, the majority of people who are bashing the signing have MAYBE seen him play a few times and that's it. Some, maybe never. I would have loved to get Travis Outlaw, but New Jersey paid a lot more for him than the Raptors paid for Kleiza, and it's a good bet that Outlaw would never have chosen Toronto over New Jersey. They have more money, a guaranteed starting spot, and will be a New York team in 2 years.

    Many this thread is getting out of control.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    not sure what to think. i'm fighting the urge to say 'typical BC signing' (er, attempted signing), but that's what it seems like...a guy he's liked for a while - check; euro - check; minimum 4 yrs - check; at least $5M (avg) per year - check.

    not sure if denver is going to match, though they don't have much behind melo at the 3, even though they're probably reluctant to add long-term contracts (given that they'll be trying to re-sign melo), it wouldn't surprise me if they did. could be a case of them relying on feedback from melo as to whether it's worth it. of course, they may figure that they don't need to commit that term & $$ to a backup who they didn't like enough to keep from going to europe in the first place.

    if this falls through though, does BC target childress next?
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    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    I disagree. It has been proven that the European model does not work. Call it racism or whatever you want, but it is reality. I bet at this point these are the only players the Raptors can sign. Just a horrible team.
    Yeah, you're right because the Spurs have had no success using international players in their system.

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    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    I disagree. It has been proven that the European model does not work. Call it racism or whatever you want, but it is reality. I bet at this point these are the only players the Raptors can sign. Just a horrible team.
    Wow, 9 pages, so I apologize if someone already responded to this.

    It's not racism; it's just plain ignorance.

    Sure, he was born outside of the US, but Kleiza played high school ball in AMERICA and college ball in AMERICA. What about that screams European model to you, aside from where he was born or his skin color?

    That said, he's a tough player who could be a lot better rebounder than he has shown so far. His rebounding totals worsened after he expanded his perimeter game; he was a rebounding beast his first NCAA year. He's also, unfortunately, a poor defender due to his lack of lateral quickness. This leads him to play off his man to prevent drives, preferring to give up the open look instead, which doesn't sound great for a team that already needs help with both.

    That said, I'm okay with the signing if we can improve defense in other areas. I have no problem with how early we're going after him; BC has had a week now to gauge the interest of FAs in coming to Toronto. If Kleiza is the best player available who actually is willing to sign with Toronto, then the earlier the better. We tend to forget that free agency, much like trades, involves two parties (and in the case of RFAs, three). Just because we want a certain player doesn't mean he wants us.

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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    Can we please stop with the fucking racism? No, I'm not European, but this is getting ridiculous. Just because a player is Euro does NOT mean any of the following:

    - He is unathletic
    - He is only good at zone defense and shooting
    - He is bad at defense
    - He is soft
    - He is not good enough for the NBA

    The value of this signing will be on whether or not Kleiza can contribute on the defensive end and the glass. If not, it is a poor signing.

    The timing is also odd. With the dust settling on major free agents, is it really a good idea to tie up our mid-level exception for 7 days?
    Dude, calm down ... where do you see the racism? I am an European myself, so stop being an asshole. Raptors stereotype to sign big contracts to mediocre European players pretty much affects the flexibility of Raptors future development.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dr Hannibal Lecter's Avatar
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    Default Another Euro;;;

    I don't know what 2 say anymore,bad signing,everything he does turns 2 crap...Can we please just fire Bryan Colangelo.

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    Quote Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
    I don't know what 2 say anymore,bad signing,everything he does turns 2 crap...Can we please just fire Bryan Colangelo.
    I guess I'm in the minority, but how is Kleiza a bad signing. He's a physical player who isn't an amazing rebounder, but a decent one. Solid defender and has an offensive touch too. I actually wanted Colangelo to go after him years ago.

    I guess its official then. I'm the president of the Kleiza "fan club".

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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    I guess I'm in the minority, but how is Kleiza a bad signing. He's a physical player who isn't an amazing rebounder, but a decent one. Solid defender and has an offensive touch too. I actually wanted Colangelo to go after him years ago.

    I guess its official then. I'm the president of the Kleiza "fan club".
    Two years ago was a different story ... not to mention that last year, signing Kleiza instead of Hedon't would have much better options now, maybe CB4 convincing Wade to join Raptors, not the other way around .

    Anyway, if this move is not follow-up by some major trades, I don't believe this is necessary a great move AT THIS TIME. Going for Kleiza NOW, it means BC will force again "the best team on paper" and we will end up maybe with 8th seed again and a late draft pick. Probably, BC is playing his last chance to improve the team before his contract is up.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Refresh my memory but isn't he a PF? He's a decent signing but I'm not sure it's a real position of need. Does he have the skills to be a SF?
    Keep Calm & Chive On

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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    Refresh my memory but isn't he a PF? He's a decent signing but I'm not sure it's a real position of need. Does he have the skills to be a SF?
    He is listed as a guard-forward by yahoo sports.
    http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3953
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    Raptors Republic Rookie Jive's Avatar
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    Refresh my memory but isn't he a PF? He's a decent signing but I'm not sure it's a real position of need. Does he have the skills to be a SF?
    He can play both forward positions.

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    Quote Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
    I don't know what 2 say anymore,bad signing,everything he does turns 2 crap...Can we please just fire Bryan Colangelo.
    I agree. I've been on BC's side even after losing Bosh, but I really thought he had learned his lesson on his continuous obsession with the European players. This tells me that he is done in Toronto and is going to stick with what he laid out from the beginning and will just go down with it and quit/not resign/be fired at years end.

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    Quote Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
    I don't know what 2 say anymore,bad signing,everything he does turns 2 crap...Can we please just fire Bryan Colangelo.
    The Raps just lost its franchise player, are we really dillusional to think that we can convince any of the major FA to sign here if we can't even keep our own???

    Kleiza is a good player, i think he'd fit in nicely with the Raps and I think this signals a possible move of Hedo. Let's wait and see what else BC has up his sleeve...

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