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Thread: SIGNING: Kleiza To Raptors (Update: Pg. 23/Post #183)

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Rookie Tortacular's Avatar
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    Wait, the Raptors signed a bench guy to a long-term deal? Hold on, I'll alert the media.
    You can find me on Twitter.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    yeah, he could turn out to be a fantastic player. quick: chances he becomes an all-star - greater than or less than 1%? so it's not a guaranteed contract - YAY! - it's still another example of overreaching in a contract offer.
    How overreaching is it? How many years does D. Smith mean by "multi-year"? Does anyone know? Or is anything over 1 year too much for you?
    Last edited by Mess; Thu Jul 8th, 2010 at 10:26 AM.

  3. #43
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    Fire Alvin Williams,
    Hire, Patrick Ewing
    Sign Ewing JR to an entry level contract

    The Young Gunz will improve defensivley, he's ready for the NBA. He just has not gotten a fair chance, great team for him to grow as an NBA player, if we get daddy on board he won't leave either.

  4. #44
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    Good point Buddha those are impressive stats for the euroleague. All you Euro bashers should remember that what this team has been severely missing is a guy like Garbo who last i checked was European. They're not all soft like Bargs or Turk. With all the white guys though the Raps are looking like the old Celtics, hopefully they can win like them too. Who needs the dream team, we got the cream team! lol

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    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    How overreaching is it? How many years does D. Smith mean by "multi-year"? Does anyone know? Or is anything over 1 year too much for you?
    well, we don't know yet...i guess i may be reading too much into it, but the fact that they'll be eating into the MLE to give alabi a higher contract than his draft position would normally dictate is annoying. i know that in the grand scheme of things, his contract is pretty much irrelevant, it's just the continuation of the same kind of approach.

    BC's fans seem enamoured with the guy because he's not 'afraid' to pull whacky, complicated trades, or reach in terms of contracts for FAs, but sometimes the scariest thing is just being patient. i don't see the top GMs in the league running around every goddamn offseason trying to make big fancy trades or signing middling players to longer terms for more money on a continual basis. just doesn't seem to be an overly effective way to build a competitive, sustainable franchise.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  6. #46
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    Quote mush wrote: View Post
    good point buddha those are impressive stats for the euroleague. All you euro bashers should remember that what this team has been severely missing is a guy like garbo who last i checked was european. They're not all soft like bargs or turk. With all the white guys though the raps are looking like the old celtics, hopefully they can win like them too. Who needs the dream team, we got the cream team! Lol
    whiteout!!!
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  7. #47
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    Why can't the "Euro" observation be made without it being considered racist?

    I see bloggers commenting on African-American players not wanting to play in Canada that go by without comment but the minute you bring up the fact that the Raptors love European players it's an issue.

    There is a definite priority of signing European players on this team which shouldn't be a problem if they are good players. San Antonio has done it well with Parker, Ginobili, etc.

    The difference is with that team those players are nimble and can defend. We go for slow footed players that can shoot and very little else. Klezia has a decent offensive game but will not help on the defensive end and is an average rebounder.

    Colangelo is a joke.

  8. #48
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    I didn't know their was so many "smart" GM's in RR. Obviously all the nay-sayers are feeling a little tender after Bosh skipped to the Heat, but life goes on. We have like 5 Raptors right now who have proven they can play in the league. Turk, Jack, Bargs, Jose, Weems. I really don't want my Raps to tank a season based on the fact that they just don't have talent to win. I'm not sure if you've noticed but their isn't a parade of Americans making their way to Toronto lately. Kleiza is coming of an awesome season, with a great team, he'll be able to step up and help this club in a big way. I just don't understand why you wouldn't want him..

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Rookie TM Williamson's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    quick: chances he becomes an all-star - greater than or less than 1%? so it's not a guaranteed contract - YAY! - it's still another example of overreaching in a contract offer.
    It's not about him becoming an all-star, it's about him becoming a contributor.

    If we sign him on for one year at the minimum, and he comes in and contributes next year, then he's in line for a significant raise next summer. Wes Matthews is supposedly going to get something like $4 million next season, after playing this year on a minimum contract.

    To me, this indicates that they are going to give Alabi a chance to contribute next season, and hope that he outplays whatever deal they're about to sign him to. That would make him a bargain in any year after year one. It's a bit of a gamble, but if this guy really is the "steal of the draft", it could definitely end up paying off.

  10. #50
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    Great more long term payroll for a role player.

    Boy, do I feel good about the future of this franchise.
    Last edited by Dave; Thu Jul 8th, 2010 at 10:45 AM.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Rookie sunndog's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    uh, that's just dumb. linas was born & raised in lithuania. what makes him 'less' euro is his style of play & the fact he went to college in states.

    childress has been in europe for what, a season (or is it two now)? how is that the 'same' as actually being european?
    He may have been born in Lithuania but he played his highschool basketball in Maryland and his college ball at Mizzou. So his formative basketball years were played in the US. Stop hating on Euros.
    BC's philsophy with Euros was two-fold IMO. First he felt that Euros were less likely to leave Toronto than American players who are closer to home south of the border. Secondly, the European style of spreading the floor is something that created mismatches in international play for the Americans and it allows for a faster paced more open style of basketball

    Beyond that, Kleiza doesn't fit the Euro-generalizations at all. He's a strong player. He's well built, he's not afraid to take it to the rim if necessary and he has a solid jumper. He's not a defensive stopper, but he can certainly guard his position and i'm sure practicing with Melo, definitely helped his defense.
    At 4 mil/year, this is a steal for Colangelo. Beyond Childress I think Kleiza may have been the best available option at SF, better than Outlaw.
    Great move by BC in the right direction. Kudos to him for addressing the depth of our weakest position, helping to strengthen the team defense and providing more depth off the bench all in one move.

  12. #52
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    I'm just happy to have someone who plays defense

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Rookie sunndog's Avatar
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    one more thing....

    Kleiza's also a great signing because he's a complementary fit. He's not the type of player who needs the ball in his hands constantly in order to be effective. One of his biggest strengths was his spot up shooting which IMO was a huge weakness for the Raps last year. Kleiza will stretch the floor for the Raps and provide a perimeter threat, something that was sorely missing last year.

  14. #54
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    For those who are into labels like "Euro"....

    Kleiza played high school and college in the US. He was the Gatorade High School Player of the Year in 2003 playing for a high school in Rockville, Maryland and an award winning player with the University of Missouri (averaged 30/9 in the Big 12 tournament as a sophomore) before joining the NBA as a 1st round draft pick of the Denver Nuggets.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    I disagree. It has been proven that the European model does not work. Call it racism or whatever you want, but it is reality. I bet at this point these are the only players the Raptors can sign. Just a horrible team.
    Yeah, you're right because the Spurs have had no success using international players in their system.

  16. #56
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    Horrible signing for the price.

    Looking at advanced (NBA) stats he shoots a poor percentage from 3 though he takes a very large percentage of his shots from beyond the arc, contributes nothing in terms of assists, steals or blocks, his PER has never cracked 15 (ie average), and his defensive metrics such as defensive win share and defensive rating are poor.

    From what I remember of his time on the Nuggets he can't keep quicker guys in front of him, he has questionable shot selection and complete tunnel vision when attacking the rim (though to his credit he does drive and finish well). Pairing him with DeRozan or Weems at the 2 will result in far too much redundancy and a stagnant offense, and we won't have Bosh to bail out the offense any longer when the wings can't create.

    Frankly I'd like the signing at 3 mil a year or so, but I can't understand why you'd shell out that kind of money right now for the guy. If they ever hope to contend in any way, going forward the Raps are going to HAVE to acquire a franchise player over the next few years in one of two ways: draft or trade (free agency is a bit of a long shot). Adding another burdensome long term contract for a guy who will sort of help you win now, but now much, and who really doesn't have much trade value unless he fits another team's need perfectly, helps in neither way.

    To me, this is a perfect indication that BC's focus is still stuck somewhere between rebuilding and trying to put a competitive product on the floor right away, and frankly it's worrisome. Then again, if BC turns around and deals Hedo then I'd give it a thumbs up.

  17. #57
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    Considering the alternatives bandied about were of the Gomes/Brewer/Outlaw type, I think this is decent. The guy is a good player, plain and simple. The Raps now have good players up and down their roster. Look at the chart for a second:

    Jack/Calderon
    Derozan/Weems
    Turkoglu/Kleiza
    Davis/Johnson
    Bargnani/Alabi

    Out of those 10 players, Weems seems to be the weakest. Not counting of course, Davis and Alabi - who are rookies, but who are rookies who will one day be awesome players. But Weems is actually becoming a good player, so I use the term weakest with all due respect. The point i'm trying to make is that we're 2 deep at every spot with real players. This actually hasn't happened for the Raps in quite a while.

    Barring a catastrophe, we'll be getting a huge TPE from the Bosh trade to Miami. That's 16 million give or take that we can use to get ourselves a real scorer and shot creator. We also can improve through the draft in the coming years, and we'll have some cap space in the future after Evans/Banks/Belli come off the books. Moving Bosh out, and giving more playing time to Johnson, and the addition of Davis and Alabi I think will do wonders for our overall defense, so that's not as big a concern for me. I'm not saying it's perfect, but, it's already much improved.

    Decry BC if you might, but he's given the Raps some depth, talent, youth and potential. We're not there yet, but it's not as bleak as some are saying. There are worse platforms from which to rebuild. Or retool. Whatever floats your boat.

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    Why can't the "Euro" observation be made without it being considered racist?

    I see bloggers commenting on African-American players not wanting to play in Canada that go by without comment but the minute you bring up the fact that the Raptors love European players it's an issue.
    I've seen people say American players won't come to Canada, but I don't think I've ever read that about African-Americans specifically - and even if they're such a high % of american-born players anyway that you think it goes without saying, anyone who does make that distinction will definitely get chewed out for it (or should anyway).

    But judging americans and europeans as a whole is just stereotypical. We don't need more Don Cherry's when it comes to thinking about Europeans.

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    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    The point i'm trying to make is that we're 2 deep at every spot with real players. This actually hasn't happened for the Raps in quite a while.

    Decry BC if you might, but he's given the Raps some depth, talent, youth and potential. We're not there yet, but it's not as bleak as some are saying. There are worse platforms from which to rebuild. Or retool. Whatever floats your boat.
    A mediocre team full of long term contracts given to players lacking in upside, is actually just about the worst platform from which to rebuild or retool. A Raptors team that finds itself competing for a deep playoff run in say, 3-4 years could now only happen in these ways:

    1. Drastic improvement from some combination of Bargs, DeRozan and Davis (and I mean drastic, because none of these guys really project to more than 2nd or 3rd banana)
    2. Lottery luck (since there's no chance we'll be bad enough to finish bottom 5 over the next 3-4 years)
    3. Trading away our solid young assets for an established star to put around the rest of our bad long term contracts

    This appeal to you?

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    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote TM Williamson wrote: View Post
    No, signing any mediocre player to a big contract affects the flexibility of future development. Whether they are European, North American, South American, Asian, African, or Australian is irrelevant.

    Kleiza played college ball in the states, and his style of play isn't really the stereotypical "Euro" game.

    I'm not implying that you're necessarily prejudiced or anything, but to have the attitude of "don't sign any European players simply because they're European, and we've had dissappointing results from European players in the past" is somewhat ignorant. You've got to sign the players who are the best fit for your team, regardless of their origin. So, in that regard, if we were signing a Belinelli type or a Bargnani type, I would agree with you (although I would probably use some variation of the word "soft" rather than "Euro") But we aren't...that isn't Kleiza's style of play.

    And to anyone that thinks this is a bad signing, consider this:

    Kleiza got offered $5 million. He plays a position where we are short on talent, and in his last NBA season, averaged 22 minutes per game on a conference finals team.

    Amir Johnson signed for almost $7 million. He plays the position where we are arguably deepest (although I recognize that isn't saying much), and in his last NBA season, averaged 18 minutes per game on a team that didn't make the playoffs.

    So all in all, I would say we're getting pretty good value for a proven contributor.

    I like Kleiza, but having him and Turk is redundant. I'd rather see Kleiza than Turk to be honest, especially if Linas is cheaper.

    Under the current situation (assuming Turk stays), we do not need another forward, either 3 or 4. We need a CENTER, a true 7 footer that will play D and rebound and anchor the defense allowing Bargs to shift to his natural position. Brendan Haywood is available; however, he'll be a bit more expensive.

    Source: http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...nts/index.html

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