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Thread: We’re Now Flirting With The Tax While Fielding A 20-Win Team

  1. #21
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    I think Arsenalist is saying that the Raptors as is right now, is a 20-wins team. But the reality is, we are going to see more moves from BC who is trying to compete again, so 30 wins is not difficult to achieve. Anyway, I prefer to read Arsenalist posts and blogs instead of BuddaFan's so called predictions

  2. #22
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    As much as I'd like a vacation from writing, the last thing I'd want is Buddahfan to stop posting for a year, so on the basis of that alone I won't accept this. Not to mention that the roster of 2010-11 isn't set yet so any prediction of win total would be based on half the facts.

    If you want to have a prediction contest, let's wait till before the season starts and wager some money on it, instead of posting privileges.

  3. #23
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Buddahfan,

    I like your heart but don't you think you're being a little extreme here? Why not other terms that doesn't potentially cause us to lose one of our greatest resources for an entire year? I mean seriously, things can change and trades can happen. When the Bobcats landed Jackson, for example, they turned it around. This isn't me representing anyone but myself by the way. Just my personal opinion. I hope he doesn't agree to it.



    I don't think he should have to retract anything or agree to anything like this. If anyone had a slight shadow of a doubt they would not agree to that. Hell, if I had no doubt I wouldn't agree to that. Things change and a bet like this does not account for that.
    quit being such a sap let's have something interesting go on in the forums instead of trying to shoot down everything.

    i think you guys should up the anti and you should have your ip adress completely banned for a year if you're wrong so you can't even read anything.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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  4. #24
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    As much as I'd like a vacation from writing, the last thing I'd want is Buddahfan to stop posting for a year, so on the basis of that alone I won't accept this. Not to mention that the roster of 2010-11 isn't set yet so any prediction of win total would be based on half the facts.

    If you want to have a prediction contest, let's wait till before the season starts and wager some money on it, instead of posting privileges.
    you know i don't see how you can be a good poster what makes you a good poster really a good writer maybe but good poster?

    i'm not sure there is such a thing.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  5. #25
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    Hahaha, this is pretty awesome.

    Buddha, a little aggressive in your bets, but I like it.

    Even if there was no basis for the raptors being a better team next year, you would think some of the writers would conjure up some optimistic material to carry fans through the dark days of summer.

    I'm actually in the same boat as Buddha, I think the raptors will be better next year and make the playoffs and not simply because Bosh is gone. His efficient offense will be missed badly, but as a franchise guy he was lacking in every other single consideration and I think the rest of the team can fill some of the glaring voids that were created by his style of play.

    The 20 wins just seems like a cop out prediction designed to slam BC. The lack of S&T was disheartening, but every single player on the squad other than Jose (who will likely be shipped out) is in all likelihood going to make a more positive contribution than last year.

    How do people look at last year's team that won 40 games and think it is even remotely close to what the team will look like next year?

    Sonny and Amir weren't getting any burn, Turk played like a beached whale, Derozan was the greenest rookie since Tmac, the organization was still under the misguided notion that Jose was a starter oh and Triano had 9 new guys and a mandate to play a certain lineup regardless of its viability.

    Lebron's wake of destruction leveled 4 teams and only Chicago might come out unscathed. If the raps can't get the 8th seed in the dilapidated East, everyone should be fired.

  6. #26
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    Lebron's wake of destruction leveled 4 teams and only Chicago might come out unscathed. If the raps can't get the 8th seed in the dilapidated East, everyone should be fired.
    This is exactly the problem though; the 8th seed in the playoffs is only useful if it's a learning experience for a young team looking to build on that experience as it works it's way toward a title. Hardly describes the Raptors. It's just short term gain at the expense of long term development if you end up playing your 'veterans' at the expense of your younger players. And if you DO play your younger players so that they can develop, hoping for an 8th seed is probably pretty optimistic.

  7. #27
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    quit being such a sap let's have something interesting go on in the forums instead of trying to shoot down everything.

    i think you guys should up the anti and you should have your ip adress completely banned for a year if you're wrong so you can't even read anything.
    Bahahahaha, if you're so tough then why don't you step in and make a bet against Baddahfan? Go ahead, make his day.
    Last edited by Apollo; Fri Jul 9th, 2010 at 01:26 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    The team defense in 2010-11 will improve immensely with very little fall off from the overall team offense.

    Bosh's offense can be compensated for by others on the team especially when you consider that when he played for the Raptors he had this horrible habit of holding the ball for maybe 10 seconds or so way to often. The Raptors offense without him and his bad knee along with his holding the ball for so long will speed up. As a result the Raptors will be able to compensate on offense for his departure without losing much if any overall offensive effectiveness.

    In the meantime with Johnson getting more minutes and the addition of Davis and Carlesimo as an assistant coach as well as a year of familiarity with each other the defense will improve over last season.

    So overall I see the Raptors going from a team that gave up over 105 ppg and scored just under 105 ppg for a negative ppg spread to a team that will have a positive ppg spread of between 2 and 4 ppg.

    That is how I see it. Of course we won't know if I am correct or Arse and others who are forecasting an abysmal 2010-11 for the Raptors are correct until sometime after the all-star break next season.
    I have to agree with what Lark Benson wrote (is it me, or does that sound like the protagonist in a Clive Cussler novel?)

    I think it extremely unlikely that the Raptors score the same next year, especially if Calderon is traded. For all of Bosh's weaknesses, including holding the ball, he is the ONLY player on the Raptors who could manufacture points. A team can't simply run more and expect to score more. The Raptors ran as much as possible, and the times when Bosh held the ball, the team was playing half court. Who is going to score when the team is in the half court?

    On defense, I know I sound like a broken record, but if Bargnani is still with the team, it will always struggle defensively. Bosh simply wasn't the problem, and replacing him with someone better defensively will have a very small effect on the defense.

    My big problem with your belief that the Raptors will make the playoffs is that games are generally won and lost in the last few minutes of a games. The biggest difference between a 50 win team and a 30 win team is that a 50 win team makes a couple of fewer mistakes in the last few minutes. A 60 win team makes almost none.

    You can talk all you want about offense and defense, and I'm not saying the Raptors aren't going to be competitive in games, but at the end of the game, a team with so many young players, and no one who can manufacture points, is not going to win a lot. It's just the way the NBA is. I think the Raptors are going to be a fun team to watch, and I think they've got a brighter future than many seem to think, but if the Raptors lose Bosh AND Calderon, they will have lost two of their most experienced veterans on a team without a lot of veterans.

  9. #29
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think it extremely unlikely that the Raptors score the same next year, especially if Calderon is traded. For all of Bosh's weaknesses, including holding the ball, he is the ONLY player on the Raptors who could manufacture points. A team can't simply run more and expect to score more. The Raptors ran as much as possible, and the times when Bosh held the ball, the team was playing half court. Who is going to score when the team is in the half court?
    The Raptors scored the same PPG with Bosh out of the lineup. They gave up more on defense though, a whopping extra 2PPG.

  10. #30
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    The raptors didn't really run that much last year. They had a front court of Turk, Bosh and Bargs, none of which have ever been described as mobile in transition.

    Also by improving the defense from worst to hopefully middle of the pack, it will also increase transition opportunities as it is a lot easier to run off misses than makes. Half court might be an issue, but Triano is a pretty good offensive coach I think ball movement will be stressed.

    Good point about scoring in the last two minutes, but Turk got a lot of those touches last year and pissed almost everyone away and while Bosh has a good highlight reel of game winning shots, he has historically been unable to come through like most PF's when it comes to winning time.

    Bosh is average at best defensively and has much more in common with Amare and Boozer than Duncan or KG. I think replacing him with Amir will have a significant effect on the defensive end in terms of effort, IQ and intensity and also the rotating bigs of Davis and Solomon should all help to cover for Bargs deficiencies. I also think Bargs defense will improve by simply removing Bosh in a similar fashion that Bosh's will improve by being away from Bargs.

    The raptors will have arguably the worst crunch time player of any team in the league and by that I mean I do not know who that will be. I'm sure Turk will get some looks, but I think Weems has the confidence and mid range game to handle a lot of the touches inside the last two minutes, but that is asking a lot from a guy who only has a half season of reliable minutes under his belt.

    I just don't see 8 teams in the East who will be better or who will care as much day in and day out as the raptors will. No expectations is a much better approach to a season than trying to live up to unrealistic ones.

  11. #31
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The Raptors scored the same PPG with Bosh out of the lineup. They gave up more on defense though, a whopping extra 2PPG.
    I'm not talking over the course of a handful of games against teams that are mostly horrible on defense. I'm speaking about over the course of an entire season. There's a big difference. In a handful of games, players can pick up the extra load. Over the course of a season, teams are able to adjust and counter Amir going off for 26 points.

    As for the "whopping 2 ppg" more they gave up on defense, that can mean the difference between Utah and Washington.

  12. #32
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    I just don't see 8 teams in the East who will be better or who will care as much day in and day out as the raptors will. No expectations is a much better approach to a season than trying to live up to unrealistic ones.
    Definitely:
    Miami
    Boston
    Orlando
    Atlanta
    Chicago

    Most Likely:
    Milwaukee
    Charlotte

    Possibly:
    Philadelphia
    New York
    Indiana

    I just don't see it.

  13. #33
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    Charlotte is getting worse not better, no real point guard, Capn Jack is due for a cliff dive and Wallace's last season is reminiscent of Harris's lone all star.

    Boston is going to have stay extremely healthy not to combust. They lost all thier depth in the front court and KG is all scowls and swear words at this point.

    I think Philly makes a leap, but Atlanta could be in trouble, teams don't usually handle imploding in the playoffs very well and i'm sold on Boozer like I am Toyota products.

    Milawakue will be hard pressed to recreate last years magic, I foresee a Jennings sophomore slump and Bogut can't seem to stay healthy for a season, adding Maggette doesn't insure anything positive.

    Miami is the only team that actually improved this summer, but at this point no one really knows.

  14. #34
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'm not talking over the course of a handful of games against teams that are mostly horrible on defense. I'm speaking about over the course of an entire season. There's a big difference. In a handful of games, players can pick up the extra load. Over the course of a season, teams are able to adjust and counter Amir going off for 26 points.
    Team did adjust while Bosh was out and hence Bargnani's numbers went down. The rest of the team performed. I think the offense will be fine.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    As for the "whopping 2 ppg" more they gave up on defense, that can mean the difference between Utah and Washington.
    You need to keep in mind that I wasn't being sarcastic... So, yeah.

  15. #35
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Team did adjust while Bosh was out and hence Bargnani's numbers went down. The rest of the team performed.
    No way man. I'm not believing that for a second. Bargnani shit the bed when Bosh got injured, had nothing to do with teams adjusting. The guy couldn't make a mid-range jumper to save his life and his defensive effort got worse (if that's possible).

  16. #36
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    No way man. I'm not believing that for a second. Bargnani shit the bed when Bosh got injured, had nothing to do with teams adjusting. The guy couldn't make a mid-range jumper to save his life and his defensive effort got worse (if that's possible).
    well, we'll(oh, the 2 wells in the same sentence) see this season won't we. i bet they'll make us be the first team to face Miami.
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  17. #37
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    They'll make it to at least 100PPG.

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