Jose vs. Jack

[Selects87]

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media...08_153325_9412

E Smith on the fan 590 had this interview with Jose Calderon yesterday. After listening to this I have become to worry about the leadership roles on this team. It was suggested that Jack may be the new captain on this team but Jose said he may have to talk to me first because I have been here longer. I believe it reiterates the fact that Jose needs to be dealt. He believes he is a team leader and as much as I like Jose he isn't a starting PG in the NBA.

[geebee]

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media...08_153325_9412

E Smith on the fan 590 had this interview with Jose Calderon yesterday. After listening to this I have become to worry about the leadership roles on this team. It was suggested that Jack may be the new captain on this team but Jose said he may have to talk to me first because I have been here longer. I believe it reiterates the fact that Jose needs to be dealt. He believes he is a team leader and as much as I like Jose he isn't a starting PG in the NBA.

Although his comment sounded like it was at least partially in jest, I think it's interesting that HE brought up the subject of who the captain should be. Eric picked up on it and asked the question, but it was Jose who obviously had it on his mind.

I've never been a fan of Jose. Yeah, he's a playmaker and he usually seems to be a positive guy, but he's always had this passive/aggressive thing going on. He says all the right things most of the time, but sometimes you hear things like this that make you wonder if he isn't a little angry that he's not respected more by his peers.

A big ego is a troublesome quality in a backup PG, especially when he has the defensive weaknesses that Jose does.

[KakashiPrince]

We need jose... without jose ...amir does not worth 7mill

Jose was joking about captain.

[rev20002]

I like Jack better and Jose makes double. I'd love it if we could use this trade excemption and Jose as a possible way to bring Al Jefferson and Monta Ellis to Toronto

[Tim W.]

I've never been a fan of Jose. Yeah, he's a playmaker and he usually seems to be a positive guy, but he's always had this passive/aggressive thing going on. He says all the right things most of the time, but sometimes you hear things like this that make you wonder if he isn't a little angry that he's not respected more by his peers.

A big ego is a troublesome quality in a backup PG, especially when he has the defensive weaknesses that Jose does.

Reading something into nothing is also a troublesome quality. Calderon has never been anything but a team guy who always did what was asked of him without complaint. He's performed just as well as a starter as he has coming off the bench, and never hung his head or resisted any role he's been asked to do.

Calderon is overpaid and isn't a good defender, but he's the best PG for this team because he knows how to run and offense and makes those around him better. I like Jack, but the offense often stumbled when he was on the floor, and he's more of a combo guard, so someone better to have coming off the bench. Plus, his contract makes him easier to trade if you want to get something of value back. By trading Calderon, you'd be sacrificing in order to do it because of his contract. Because teams would rather have Jack and his contract, he'll bring more back in a trade.

[Tim W.]

I like Jack better and Jose makes double. I'd love it if we could use this trade excemption and Jose as a possible way to bring Al Jefferson and Monta Ellis to Toronto

The second part of your comment pretty much nullifies the first part. I'm sorry, but no one should want Jefferson or Ellis to come to the Raptors unless you don't care about winning all that much.

I'm just sick of guys talking about Jefferson and Ellis because they are vastly overrated, don't play defense and simply don't fit in on the Raptors.

[Ambidextrious]

Everyone who seriously thinks that JC is the best fit for this team is out right crazy and lying to themselves. Were trying to fix our defence, not our offence. Jose is a bad thorn in the foot of the raptors. Sure he can get the ball to where its needed but when it comes to the other side of the court. He can't hold his own. Which to me is very alarming. Jack is a better overall player no doubt. He shot better from the three, he also had a better FT % Other than that their numbers are identical points wise. So why would you want to keep a player who doesn't show his worth in value? A player who is incapable of being selfless (bringing up the captain issue) Who here really deep down can say they'd rather have Jose over Jarret because Jose is a better player? Not me thats for sure. Get rid of him.

[Brasky]

Toronto cannot go ahead with Calderon as its starting point guard, or even as a big minute backup. If Colangelo really intends on changing the team culture and making defense and effort the focus, Jose and his bloated contract have to be the first to go. We'll lose his low impact high efficiency offense, but the defensive gain will more than make up for it.

And considering he never really was much of a playmaker to begin with, it remains to be seen how much of Jose's efficiency drops without a premier big man to play off of.

[geebee]

Reading something into nothing is also a troublesome quality. Calderon has never been anything but a team guy who always did what was asked of him without complaint. He's performed just as well as a starter as he has coming off the bench, and never hung his head or resisted any role he's been asked to do.

Calderon is overpaid and isn't a good defender, but he's the best PG for this team because he knows how to run and offense and makes those around him better. I like Jack, but the offense often stumbled when he was on the floor, and he's more of a combo guard, so someone better to have coming off the bench. Plus, his contract makes him easier to trade if you want to get something of value back. By trading Calderon, you'd be sacrificing in order to do it because of his contract. Because teams would rather have Jack and his contract, he'll bring more back in a trade.

I appreciate your point, but this isn't really about Jose or Jack. This is about Jose or Turk and who distributes the ball. Jack is cheaper, he can play two positions and he seems to get along with the other young players on team. Keeping him is a no-brainer.

So your choice really is to unload Turk or unload Calderon and see what either one of them gets us. My personal opinion is that we've seen what Calderon can do, so now let's see what Turk can do.

If you unload Calderon, the point goes through Turk. If you unload Jack, then you MUST unload Turk as well because keeping him without letting him run the point is.... well.... pointless.

Trade one instead of two and let the young guys develop. Bye bye Jose.

[malefax]

God am I sick of this debate. It's like the TJ/Jose thing flipped a switch in Raptor fans that they have to endlessly, uselessly debate who should be pointguard.

FWIW, my view is still the same: Jack is a backup. he is not a real creator. The offense is stagnant when he is running things. The Rapors worst lineups involved Jack. The difference between jack's defense and Calderon's defense is quite small if you look at the stats.Turkoglu and Calderon can play together fine, as is obvious if you actually look at the success of the lineups. Jack's contract is more tradeable. For all these reasons, I expect Jack to go if anyone goes, and that is fine with me.

[Arsenalist]

Toronto cannot go ahead with Calderon as its starting point guard, or even as a big minute backup. If Colangelo really intends on changing the team culture and making defense and effort the focus, Jose and his bloated contract have to be the first to go. We'll lose his low impact high efficiency offense, but the defensive gain will more than make up for it.

And considering he never really was much of a playmaker to begin with, it remains to be seen how much of Jose's efficiency drops without a premier big man to play off of.

Hmmm....not sure if I agree that Jose can't play as the primary backup. Seemed to work pretty well in 2006-07, but since then his health has taken a hit. Still believe a healthy Calderon can lead the second unit well.

[karim_nasir]

God am I sick of this debate. It's like the TJ/Jose thing flipped a switch in Raptor fans that they have to endlessly, uselessly debate who should be pointguard.

FWIW, my view is still the same: Jack is a backup. he is not a real creator. The offense is stagnant when he is running things. The Rapors worst lineups involved Jack. The difference between jack's defense and Calderon's defense is quite small if you look at the stats.Turkoglu and Calderon can play together fine, as is obvious if you actually look at the success of the lineups. Jack's contract is more tradeable. For all these reasons, I expect Jack to go if anyone goes, and that is fine with me.

its funny you say that b/c last season when the raps started their turn around and started winning games (mid december) thats exactly when jose went out and jack took over...

here's a game log:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...Xpan6ccL1BPaB4

raps went on two 5 game winning streaks with jose wearing a suit or coming off the bench and jack starting

[Ambidextrious]

God am I sick of this debate. It's like the TJ/Jose thing flipped a switch in Raptor fans that they have to endlessly, uselessly debate who should be pointguard.

FWIW, my view is still the same: Jack is a backup. he is not a real creator. The offense is stagnant when he is running things. The Rapors worst lineups involved Jack. The difference between jack's defense and Calderon's defense is quite small if you look at the stats.Turkoglu and Calderon can play together fine, as is obvious if you actually look at the success of the lineups. Jack's contract is more tradeable. For all these reasons, I expect Jack to go if anyone goes, and that is fine with me.

Im questioning if you ever look at the stats. Or even watch the raptors at all. If you knew anything I'd suspect it to be a minimal amount. Sometimes I feel that people sign up for this site, trying to sabotage and brainwash people into thinking the wost case scenario is the best. Just because Jarret has a contract the lesser contract, does NOT mean he should be the one to get traded. Last time i checked having bargain contracts can take you a long way. BC should do what it takes to move Jose or Hedo. I'd have so much respect for him if he could. I dont think BC is the type of guy to take the easy way out (trading the smaller contract) I expect at least a few teams would be interested in one of the two.

[Arsenalist]

its funny you say that b/c last season when the raps started their turn around and started winning games (mid december) thats exactly when jose went out and jack took over...

here's a game log:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...Xpan6ccL1BPaB4

raps went on two 5 game winning streaks with jose wearing a suit or coming off the bench and jack starting

I don't care about this debate either way, but it needs to be pointed that the five game winning streak was:

NJN, NOR, DET, DET, CHA

Four of those games were at home and I only see one playoff team there. Strength of schedule had as much to do with that as starting PG. I did the recap for these games so I remember.

The four impressive wins in our "good times" stretch was vSAS, @ORL, DAL, LAL. But, we also lost to MIL and IND around the same time. This is sandwiched around losses to Boston and wins against crap like New York. My Point? We can beat the bad teams no matter who is starting at PG, and can't consistently beat the good ones no matter:

Record vs teams under .500: 14-33
Record vs teams over .500: 26-9

[rev20002]

The second part of your comment pretty much nullifies the first part. I'm sorry, but no one should want Jefferson or Ellis to come to the Raptors unless you don't care about winning all that much.

I'm just sick of guys talking about Jefferson and Ellis because they are vastly overrated, don't play defense and simply don't fit in on the Raptors.

I realize Ellis doesn't play defense either, but he's alot better than Jose on the offense end and can create his own shot. As for Al Jefferson, Amir Johnson is not the replacement for Chris Bosh