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Thread: Impact of Jose's exit on Bargnani

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    Default Impact of Jose's exit on Bargnani

    Anyone think BCís gonna move Jose mainly to give Bargnani the better chance to become the better player on the Raptors some still think he can be? It's kind of what Iím thinking.

    As up and down (sometimes, really down) as I was last year on Bargnani, I canít help consider two factors, as I see it: First, no matter how badly he sometimes played at times last year, there were flashes of near-brilliance for a quarter here and a half there. I remember times when he looked ready to go off for fifty or so and then ... he stopped getting the ball. Donít know what it was about, but in the earlier years (more so than last), to my eyes, Jose seemed to sometimes have an aversion to feed - or continue to feed - Bargs. And last year, there were odd times when it wasnít just Jose.

    The second thing, is that without Bosh anywhere near the building, it COULD (emphasized, only to say itís possible) set the table for Bargs to open up the throttle all the way, letting his talents - which I still believe are considerable - flow without feeling the presence of the former hands-down best player on the team quietly watching from the sidelines. And that dynamic - no Bosh - might have the similar effect on the rest of the team ... but more so, I believe, if Jose is gone.

    Not saying this is the best thing, necessarily, but we all know that Bargnani is Colangeloís boy ... and if Bargs is to get a full and complete year to show what he might have, I think BC is gonna set the table for him as best he can.

    Also, I donít count that last section of the season when Bosh was out with the injury, when judging whether or not Bargnani has it in him to step up. Because ... the whole team had already sagged in my opinion, as I suggested after that Saturday evening Golden State game when the penny dropped for me and I could see that Bosh was leaving. (You could look it up on the main board.) Then when Bosh got injured, the whole team just played as if it was already over.

    The questions about Bargnani that I would have are ... what has he done this summer to improve? With all that was coming (Bosh leaving), thereís no way that Colangelo didnít do something to ensure that heíd be working on SOMEthing to improve ... at least, I sincerely hope so. And when Carlesimo went to visit Turk, did he quietly hop over to Italy to visit Andrea? Bet he did. Whateverís gone on this summer with Bargs, itís been a bit too quiet. Iíll be anxious to see what kind of shape heís in. After all is said and done - trade-wise - I think weíre gonna need his best to compete.
    Last edited by ws511; Mon Jul 12th, 2010 at 11:41 AM.

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    Quote ws511 wrote: View Post
    Anyone think BCís gonna move Jose mainly to give Bargnani the better chance to become the better player on the Raptors some still think he can be? It's kind of what Iím thinking.

    As up and down (sometimes, really down) as I was last year on Bargnani, I canít help consider two factors, as I see it: First, no matter how badly he sometimes played at times last year, there were flashes of near-brilliance for a quarter here and a half there. I remember times when he looked ready to go off for fifty or so and then ... he stopped getting the ball. Donít know what it was about, but in the earlier years (more so than last), to my eyes, Jose seemed to sometimes have an aversion to feed - or continue to feed - Bargs. And last year, there were odd times when it wasnít just Jose.

    The second thing, is that without Bosh anywhere near the building, it COULD (emphasized, only to say itís possible) set the table for Bargs to open up the throttle all the way, letting his talents - which I still believe are considerable - flow without feeling the presence of the former hands-down best player on the team quietly watching from the sidelines. And that dynamic - no Bosh - might have the similar effect on the rest of the team ... but more so, I believe, if Jose is gone.

    Not saying this is the best thing, necessarily, but we all know that Bargnani is Colangeloís boy ... and if Bargs is to get a full and complete year to show what he might have, I think BC is gonna set the table for him as best he can.

    Also, I donít count that last section of the season when Bosh was out with the injury, when judging whether or not Bargnani has it in him to step up. Because ... the whole team had already sagged in my opinion, as I suggested after that Saturday evening Golden State game when the penny dropped for me and I could see that Bosh was leaving. (You could look it up on the main board.) Then when Bosh got injured, the whole team just played as if it was already over.

    The questions about Bargnani that I would have are ... what has he done this summer to improve? With all that was coming (Bosh leaving), thereís no way that Colangelo didnít do something to ensure that heíd be working on SOMEthing to improve ... at least, I sincerely hope so. And when Carlesimo went to visit Turk, did he quietly hop over to Italy to visit Andrea? Bet he did. Whateverís gone on this summer with Bargs, itís been a bit too quiet. Iíll be anxious to see what kind of shape heís in. After all is said and done - trade-wise - I think weíre gonna need his best to compete.
    Hard to see a connection between Jose leaving and BC's intention to make Bargs better. That's like saying we are going to trade Bargs to make Weems better...doesn't make much sense.

    He is probably thinking along the lines of trade Jose= remove 180 lbs of sh*t from our roster.

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    I think the move is more to clear out any player that is not part of BC's initiative. Jose is the last player that was here before BC and I think that may have something to do with it. The other thing is that if are actually getting Tyson Chandler out of it, this is a HUGE upgrade for us defensively.

    I think this will make Bargs better, not because Jose looked him off on offense, but because it pairs him with a guy whose talents compliment Bargs' very well in Chandler.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    I'm not getting the Jose-Bargnani link either. I'm glad that he's going to get some competition in Chandler, maybe that can drive him. He responded quite negatively to playing behind O'Neal or even splitting minutes with him, let's see how he does here...

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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    I'm not getting the Jose-Bargnani link either. I'm glad that he's going to get some competition in Chandler, maybe that can drive him. He responded quite negatively to playing behind O'Neal or even splitting minutes with him, let's see how he does here...
    I don't think he will have to worry about this. He will be moved to PF position, as some of his fans say: " His Natural Position" and Chandler will play center.

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    I’ve just suspected at times that Jose didn’t really feel it for Bargs. Like I said, more so in the earlier seasons ... and maybe it’s just the way I saw it (‘though I doubt I was the only one), but I remember many times thinking that Jose was looking him off more than I thought he should. It might’ve been that he was just looking for Bosh that much more, but ... I definitely had the sense Jose and Bargs weren’t exactly ... close. So, ya ... I could see Colangelo factoring it in when he’s deciding which pg to trade.

    Late edit: I didn't realize that a trade involving Jose was actually going on until ... right now, when I checked the main board. So ... well ... there ya go.
    Last edited by ws511; Mon Jul 12th, 2010 at 12:50 PM.

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    Quote ws511 wrote: View Post
    Iíve just suspected at times that Jose didnít really feel it for Bargs. Like I said, more so in the earlier seasons ... and maybe itís just the way I saw it (Ďthough I doubt I was the only one), but I remember many times thinking that Jose was looking him off more than I thought he should. It mightíve been that he was just looking for Bosh that much more, but ... I definitely had the sense Jose and Bargs werenít exactly ... close. So, ya ... I could see Colangelo factoring it in when heís deciding which pg to trade.
    I agree with that, but lets be honest, he really was looking off everyone except CB. And when Jose was coming off the bench, he would pretty much feed Amir.

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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    I don't think he will have to worry about this. He will be moved to PF position, as some of his fans say: " His Natural Position" and Chandler will play center.
    Nah I think Chandler is backup to Bargnani here. We have 3 PFs already plus a starter contract was just handed to Amir...Maybe if Amir is in Foul trouble in a game or a mixture of injuries occur but I can see chandler as our Bench center which is still awesome.

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    ... I thought there was something different about the heading of the thread ("Impact of Jose's exit on Bargnani" - not what I wrote) ... but it didn't click until after I read the headline and then story on the main board. So ... I guess it's all sort of moot now, anyway. But maybe, one day, someone'll ask Bryan if Jose ignoring Bargs too many times had anything to do with him being the guy that was moved. (Doesn't matter - he wouldn't say.) To tell the truth, I've always liked Jose and I'm not so sure at this moment that moving him is what I would've done. (But I like Jack, too, so ... guess it had to be someone.) But the summer is starting to cook, that's for sure.

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    I definitely remember several games where Bargnani had it going and his touches seemed to disappear. But I don't know if you can blame it all on Jose.

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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    I definitely remember several games where Bargnani had it going and his touches seemed to disappear. But I don't know if you can blame it all on Jose.
    I dont see the connection either... If you are going to blame Calderon then you have to blame everyone who was on the floor when he was hot, the team as a whole looked him off quite a bit when he got it going.

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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    I definitely remember several games where Bargnani had it going and his touches seemed to disappear. But I don't know if you can blame it all on Jose.
    No, not all for sure. I’ve told of this before, but as we’re saying bye-bye to Jose ... sometime during Bargnani’s second year, the missus and I were at a game and the missus, being Italian, noticed something saying, “how come Jose doesn’t pass Bargnani the ball?” I don’t remember what I said exactly, but whatever it was, she disagreed, saying, “no ... I think it’s because Bargnani’s Italian and Spanish people don’t like Italians”. I laughed and kind of ignored it, offering other possibilities, but she pretty much stuck to her theory. Anyway, as time and seasons passed, it sometimes did seem to my eyes that Bargs was invisible to Jose, but ... who the hell knows? I did think last season once or twice that Jose looked for Bargs more than I though he had in previous years, but ... whatever. Looks like Jose’s gone and I for one, will miss him ... at least, on occasion. And so btw, will the missus. He became her second favorite player.

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    I agree. I think Noah is the only other centre who is better fit for Bargs. Andrea is now officially our starting 4 and I am on the record as saying he will not only have a higher PPG and FG percentage than Bosh this year, he is going to be a better defender than him this year.

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    Its not bargnani ... its the Young Gunz and the bench players...

    I don't really get the Jose trade. If Hedo is traded and Barbosa is added to the raptor roster (which make Jack redundant) why not trade Jack instead of Jose?

    We have a young team... which could lead to turnover prone (and our young players don't have a good ball handling skills...yet) ...and Amir will be the first player to be sad that Jose is gone.

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    The reason is that Jose would not move the ball up the floor in transition. He held it and we would too often end up walking, and then bouncing it into Bosh 18 ft from the rim.
    Triano wants to run. Kleiza can do that for you. Johnson, Derozan, Weems, & Barbosa add to that mix.
    Jose does not mix well in that group.

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    I think Bargnani's life will become easier now. Jack and Barbosa are aggressive and like to penetrate. This is going to create more open shots for him. Not to mention Diaw has a great handle and will provide mismatches that will create holes in the defense.

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    To have a last word here ... when I thought this and then wrote it (the lead post) this morning, there hadn’t yet been anything that I had seen about Jose being traded. The notion of the post was to be more along the line of saying that ‘I won’t be surprised if Jose gets traded because ...’. That the announcement of the trade apparently came not too many moments later was obviously a coincidence ... and I wasn’t actually aware of it until a fair bit later. So this is really just to say that, had I known, I wouldn’t have written this today. Or maybe, had I known, the post would’ve been substantially different. But whatever. So long, Jose. It was fun while it lasted. Hope things are good for you in Charlotte.

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