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Thread: How Many Wins Does Triano Need To Keep His Job?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor Cowboy wrote: View Post
    There is NO way Jay keeps his contract after this year. Colangelo is only a couple years removed from his last coaching mistake. Let's hope he doesn't do the same. The only way I see keeping Triano is if he wins us a championship. Other than that, he's just not good enough and anything else I'd consider a grand fluke.

    The only reason Jay is even still coaching is because they're still paying Smith's contract for this year. As soon as that is up, and they have money to afford a real head coach, that's what they're going to do.
    Like most fans you give way too much weight to the coach's impact on a team. Other than a maybe a handful of superior coaches, non of which are likely to be available next season to sign with the Raptors, the coach's game is a rotation game. They rotate from one team to another until they retire and in most cases its voluntary.

    Yes there are some really bad coaches who don't hang around the NBA as coaches for too long but Triano is not one of them. He has already shown that he has the ability to develop young talent, a quality that many coaches do not have. Why, because it takes time and guts to put young inexperienced guys out there even if they have a very good or better upside. It is a lot easier to go with the experienced pro who has stop growing even though the upside of the younger guy is superior to the level that the experienced pro has maxed out at.

    Generally speaking coaches on the average make a greater difference at the grade school, high school and college level levels than they do at the pro level.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Fri Jul 16th, 2010 at 03:19 PM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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  2. #22
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    My only point was if the owner of the team overshadows management and they're dumb like MLSE, you might be in trouble. I do believe Colangelo insisted MLSE stay out of the way, but what can he do but quit or tolerate them if they've changed their mind. Anyway, it's mostly irrelevant, because I don't think Triano is incompetent. I always seem to gravitate to playing devil's advocate, lol

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Like most fans you give way too much weight to the coach's impact on a team. Other than a maybe a handful of superior coaches, non of which are likely to be available next season to sign with the Raptors, the coach's game is a rotation game. They rotate from one team to another until they retire and in most cases its voluntary.

    Yes there are some really bad coaches who don't hang around the NBA as coaches for too long but Triano is not one of them. He has already shown that he has the ability to develop young talent, a quality that many coaches do not have. Why, because it takes time and guts to put young inexperienced guys out there even if they have a very good or better upside. It is a lot easier to go with the experienced pro who has stop growing even though the upside of the younger guy is superior to the level that the experienced pro has maxed out at.

    Generally speaking coaches on the average make a greater difference at the grade school, high school and college level levels than they do at the pro level.
    George Karl said that having a good coach is like having a good 4th or 5th option on your starting lineup.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    George Karl said that having a good coach is like having a good 4th or 5th option on your starting lineup.
    That is what I said. Where we differ is that it appears that you think that "good coaches" grow off of trees, whereas I say they are rare like jewels and yes I agree with Karl like I posted. However, I also said that it is highly unlikely one of those "good coaches" will be available for the Raptors to sign.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    None the less, I'm sure there is a theoretical point at which the pressure would be SO jhigh that JT could get replaced. For example Toronto goes 0-30. I'm in a agreement with most of you that Jay is likely to be judged on the development of the young players, but a very long losing streak ,might create unbelievable pressure on Colangelo to do something.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    That is what I said. Where we differ is that it appears that you think that "good coaches" grow off of trees, whereas I say they are rare like jewels and yes I agree with Karl like I posted. However, I also said that it is highly unlikely one of those "good coaches" will be available for the Raptors to sign.
    Nah man I was agreeing with you. A good coach is nice to have but I think they're overrated and I think that's exactly what Karl was saying.
    They're just easier to replace when something goes wrong.

  7. #27
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    My only point was if the owner of the team overshadows management and they're dumb like MLSE, you might be in trouble. I do believe Colangelo insisted MLSE stay out of the way, but what can he do but quit or tolerate them if they've changed their mind. Anyway, it's mostly irrelevant, because I don't think Triano is incompetent. I always seem to gravitate to playing devil's advocate, lol
    My point is that Colangelo would have had an agreement when he came on board, and/or that he would leave if MLSE started making demands.

    Sure, MLSE COULD demand that Colangelo have hired Triano, but the pluses would have far, far, far outweighed the minuses. Having a Canadian coach doesn't affect their bottom line in the least (which everyone says is all that matters) since no one goes to a basketball game to watch the coach. They would have risked hiring a bad coach AND alienating the most respected and decorated GM they've ever had. It doesn't make sense no matter how much you look at it.

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    Quote rev20002 wrote: View Post
    I think your in denial of how evil MLSE really is.
    Could you elaborate on the "evil" please?

    MLSE is in the business to turn a profit. And all indications are they do in most if not all of their various entities. If you want to call that "evil" and not expound then I suppose there is not much to discuss....other than maybe having a debate on capitalism vs. ?? MLSE in turn is largely owned (thru share structure) by the Teachers Pension Fund. Your application of the term "evil" should then naturally also be extended to it.

    And all because a certain basketball coach was hired? Or is it because they want to sabotage the team and profits which flow from a successful team?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    BC is a solid GM there is not another GM in the league that will do a better job here in toronto.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Yes there are some really bad coaches who don't hang around the NBA as coaches for too long but Triano is not one of them. He has already shown that he has the ability to develop young talent, a quality that many coaches do not have. Why, because it takes time and guts to put young inexperienced guys out there even if they have a very good or better upside.
    Because under Jay's watch we've seen amazing progress for who ?

    plz dont tell me sonny weems hahaah

    also your little quote from a high school player is annoying and takes up so much space... it makes everyone hav to scroll more for no reason. who quotes a "high school" player ?? ur quoting a 17 year old... delete that shit

  12. #32
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”

    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

    a high school champion is not well known, and if he is well known why dont you just say his name ??

  13. #33
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    Because under Jay's watch we've seen amazing progress for who ?

    plz dont tell me sonny weems hahaah
    Not sure why you can't say Weems, who HAS shown great progress, as has Amir Johnson. And Bargnani has done much better under Triano.

  14. #34
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Not sure why you can't say Weems, who HAS shown great progress, as has Amir Johnson. And Bargnani has done much better under Triano.
    tim... the statement made b4 was that it is justified to say that jay triano has the ability to develop young players based on the progress sony weems has made...

    now nobody said sonny weems hasnt made progress, but i dont think giving a player more playing time means he has made significant progress when the only reason that player is getting more minutes is b/c antoine wright is hurt n hedo is sick...

    same with amir johnson... he got more playing time...but b/c bosh was hurt and a 15 game stretch doesnt prove anything...

    if bargs started getting 10 rbds a game than yea you can say jay triano has the ability to develop young talent...

    but so far with a new roster every season he hasnt had enough time to prove that he can...

    plz read carefully, and dont take things out of context...

    there is a difference between sonny weems has made progree this year... and jay triano has the ability to develop young talent...

    coaches that have developed young talent :

    phil jackson - andrew bynum
    larry brown - see taysaun prince, chauney billups
    lawrence frank -
    nate mcmillan - all the young trail blazers

    ok this takes more than 20 games to develop a young player....

    do u see the difference or do u need more clarification ?

  15. #35
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    Since the season was more than 20 games long, and since Weems made great progress over the course of the season, as did Amir, I think it's safe to say that Triano develops young talent well. Triano has been lauded for his development of young players so it's not simply a observational argument. You don't agree he has, that's fine, but you don't have anything to back up your argument. I do.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Since the season was more than 20 games long, and since Weems made great progress over the course of the season, as did Amir, I think it's safe to say that Triano develops young talent well. Triano has been lauded for his development of young players so it's not simply a observational argument. You don't agree he has, that's fine, but you don't have anything to back up your argument. I do.
    you talk about how great the progress of sonny, andrea, and amir was this past season... yea ? did u watch the 3rd last game of the season against the bulls ?

    you can't say jay triano has the ability to develop young talent until the young talent starts playing consistently... losing to the warriors in march and then AGAIN in april when you desperately need a win shows inconsistency.... any player can have a good game...its when the group becomes consistent that you can say the coach has an ability to develop...

    does that make any sense to u ?

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    also tim the game against the bulls at the end of the season, here are the stats of your "progress players"

    sonny weems:
    9-22 FG 40.9% 18pts 5 rbds 2ast

    amir johnson
    10 pts 2rbs

    andrea bargnani
    18 pts 5 rbs in 39 mins

    does this really justify the argument that jay triano has already proven he can develop young talent ?

    or were certain players putting up better numbers due to the increased playing time as a result of bosh and wright going down, and hedo's poor performance ?

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    After last season Jay Mr No Accountability Triano should be yesterday's news but since he's just a puppet coach for his hidden hand Svengali GM- BC, with no real authority just a Canadian (1st Canadian NBA HC nice story) figure head. After saying that he- liked the effort, in a late season blowout loss to Chicago while battling for a playoff spot this guy needs to go on a permanent vacation from being the HC of the Rap's. Since he took over for Sam the Rap's have gone no where fast under Jay's leadership- a very loose usage of the word- leadership.

    No wonder JJ & Wright wonder aloud after Barg's never was corrected for his missteps in film sessions, treated with kid gloves by both Jay & BC.

    A new- GM Pritchard & head coach- Mike Brown, would do wonders for the Rap's & BC's funky vision that you couldn't see clearly with the Hubble Telescope.

    Barg's and potential 5 years later....lol

  19. #39
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    Tim hav u heard of Scott Skiles ?

    Did u see how he got Jennings, Bogut, Ilyasova, and even Delfino to play in the second half of the season ? Is that equivalent to what Jay Triano did with Bargnani, Amir, and Weems ?

    Yea let me kno if u need some illustrations or charts ok buddy ?
    Last edited by vinnie_paz; Sat Jul 17th, 2010 at 04:55 PM.

  20. #40
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    Why do you keep asking me questions and what do you have against spelling the word "you" and why are you basing your conclusions on one game and why do you keep attempting to be condescending and why are you suddenly flooding the RR Forum with your incessant arguments and why are you calling me buddy?

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