DeRozan Key To Bargnani's Offensive Consistency? ...And Production?

[Apollo]

The whole thread for me has been about offense.

Defense, that's for another 8 page thread.

[Frankthetank]

Raptors win 38 games next year. Actually the raptors 2009 version is way more talented then the 2010 raptors version. This years raps team has talent that compliments each other as last years team was unbalanced. Should this team over achieve we could see a 8 seed.

[Apollo]

Oh no, we were making progress here for a second Franthetank. We're officially off the rails again. hahaha

[Frankthetank]

Raps sign Barnes
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5393637

[Frankthetank]

Attention deficit disorder in the house lol

[Tim W.]

"You can't simply pick and choose the stats that seem to support your argument and ignore the rest.

Are you sure we're the one's whose minds are already made up? Because it seems to me that you are purposely ignoring evidence that disproves your theory. "
I actually gave you more proof then in you've given. The fact is that were more right then you and apollo are. Scoring isn't the problem here its defense and i've said that over and over. The real question is will Toronto become a better defensive team without Bosh.

You mentioned four teams, and said that was proof that Bargnani can score against anyone. I brought up six teams that he performed poorly against, and I only made it up to `n's. I'm not sure how that's more proof.

As for whether they will be a better defensive team, I have no idea. Bosh is a pretty good defender so the fact that Bosh is not on the team won't have a positive affect on the defense. If Bargnani is still on the team, they certainly won't be a good defensive team, but they certainly seem to be trying to shore up the defense, so it's a good bet it will be better. They got rid of Turkoglu and attempted to trade Calderon, and drafted two bigs who have the potential to be excellent defenders.

As Apollo said, though, this whole thread is about offense, not defense. Defensively, Bargnani is poor. If you're going to try and argue in Bargnani's favour, it's best not to bring up defense.

These are the people apollo said can guard Bargni:
"Thank you.

Chandler, Horford, Noah, Perkins, Dalembert, Nene, Brook Lopez. All backed up by stats if need be."
So their we go these guys can't really guard bargni. I think the best ones for guarding Bargni are Noah and Nene because they're fast enough to keep bargni in front of them. These are two of the best defensive big men in the league.

You don't need to be really quick against Bargnani, just above average athletically, because he can't take anyone off the dribble, anyway. As long as the center is able to move his feet, he can guard Bargnani.

IT looks like your right on one point. Bosh certainly averages more turnovers a game Bosh 2.4 turnovers a game compared to Bargnis 1.5 turnovers a game.

He's right on the other points, too, but since you focused on turnovers, how many turnovers per possession did each player have? Or turnovers per assist, as Apollo mentioned? Simply talking about turnovers doesn't tell you anything without knowing what kind of roll a player played on the team. Dirk turned the ball over over more than Dampier. What does that tell you?

Its not that one is actually better then the other. Its that they don't compliment each other on the defensive end. Plain and simple. Both are outstanding offensive players and I would give the edge to Bosh on the offensive end. It was in the defensive end that I was most anti bosh. His lack of blocks for a 6:11 guy really bothered me. Especially since he average 1.4 blocks in his first year. Who the hell gets worse at blocking shots from 19 to 26?

As I said, the whole thread is about offense, and Bosh is a much better offensive player than Bargnani. Bargnani is a better shooter from 3 point range, but that's about it. On defense, Bosh is also superior. Blocks tell you absolutely nothing about how good a defender is, just as steals don't. Karl Malone made the All-Defensive first team twice without averaging more than a block and a half a game, and actually averaged less than a block a game over the course of his career. Dennis ROdman was one of the best defensive PFs to ever play the game and never even averaged one block per game over his entire career. Shawn Bradley averaged 2.5 bpg over the course of his career, including leading the league one year and being in the top 5 7 years, but never once made one All-Defensive team.

[Raptor4Ever]

Attention deficit disorder in the house lol

LOOOL, Awsome

[Raptor4Ever]

"The deal, which is scheduled to be finalized on Tuesday, will pay Barnes nearly $10 million over the next two seasons, according to sources close to the process."

Damn, 5 million per season .WOW, Is he worth that kind of money ? He was making 1.8 last year !

[Priest]

"The deal, which is scheduled to be finalized on Tuesday, will pay Barnes nearly $10 million over the next two seasons, according to sources close to the process."

Damn, 5 million per season .WOW, Is he worth that kind of money ? He was making 1.8 last year !

There were other teams interested in his services, including the Lakers, Boston and to a lesser extent the Cavs. To entice a free agent away from the first two teams is money which LA and Boston have little left of. The cavs probably offered something and the Raptors had to beat it hence the 2 year 9-10 million deal. luckily its only for 2 years so not really a bad contract at all.

[Multipaul]

As far as I can see Bosh has a much more superior FG%, he gets to the line far more often, makes more assists, grabs more rebounds on both sides of the court, has a neutral A/T(Bargnani's is negative), averages more blocks, averages more steals, averages less fouls, has a PER that makes Bargnani's look pathetic, has a much higher TS%, has a much better offensive rating and a better defensive rating. Please explain your statement.

Chris Bosh Stats
Andrea Bargnani Stats

Mathletics. It is all there in the numbers boys!

BargsWorldOrder

[Apollo]

If you don't mind me asking, did you used to work for Enron?

[Tim W.]

Mathletics. It is all there in the numbers boys!

BargsWorldOrder

You used this last time, and not once did you actually back up your argument. In just about every respect, Bosh is a superior player to Bargnani. Sorry.

[Multipaul]

You used this last time, and not once did you actually back up your argument. In just about every respect, Bosh is a superior player to Bargnani. Sorry.

Bargs is our leading shot blocker.
Done.
Win.

[Tim W.]

Bargs is our leading shot blocker.
Done.
Win.

So the Raptors should trade Bargnani for Dalembert?

[Multipaul]

So the Raptors should trade Bargnani for Dalembert?

Are you high?

[Apollo]

I think he's continuing you thought path. Maybe Theo Ratliff is the key?

[Tim W.]

Are you high?

Sorry. Obviously you do. I think Sacramento would go for that. I figured out a deal that I think you'll be happy with...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=2cemf6b

I'd rather not give up Belinelli, too, but to get the deal that you believe would make the Raptors winners, I think I'd do it.

[hateslosing]

How come these threads always degenerate into Bosh vs. Bargs? The initial premise was that DeRozen may be a guy that can help take the pressure of Bargs by scoring or something to that effect. I don't think I've read one comment on that subject in the last 3-4 pages.

DeRozen> Bosh and Bargs