View Poll Results: Bosh or Bargnani needs to go?

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  • Yes, Bosh should go.

    1 7.69%
  • Yes, Bargnani should go.

    5 38.46%
  • No, it doesn't work but we need to make the most of what we have and hope for the best

    1 7.69%
  • No, everything is fine. Things are going to workout well with time.

    6 46.15%
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Thread: Bosh and Bargnani, what's to come?

  1. #1
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Bosh and Bargnani, what's to come?

    So it looks like Chris Bosh and company are starting to put out the fire. Since their team meeting in Washington they appear to be taking a step in the right direction. That's great, as I don't particularly enjoy seeing this soft team lose on a consistent basis, but even if it continues and they reach a couple games above .500 for the season does that prove to Colangelo, Triano and Bosh that what is on paper can be a winner? Does it prove that Bosh and Bargnani can be on the court at the same time during meaningful moments in the game and come out successful against strong opponents? I'm not so sure anymore. I mean Reggie was brought in to help remedy this obvious weakness, he hasn't played yet and so we don't know for sure how he's going to change games to the point that it means more wins... Even so, he can't be on the court at the same time with Bosh and Bargnani and so his toughness and rebounding comes at a price. Yahoo said it well today:

    The Raptors, I think, are learning that Andrea Bargnani(notes) is exactly the wrong type of player to pair with Chris Bosh(notes). Both of those guys need to be paired with an old-school banger – on both ends of the court. Together, they make the team too soft on defense and too one-dimensional on offense. Not sure how they fix it, other than to suggest that they replace Bosh – because Bosh signing elsewhere is inevitable at this point – with a more physical presence and stop pretending that Bargnani is a center.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nba/...-givego_120509

    So let's say Bosh wants to stay. Do the Raptors keep Bargnani and keep moving forward, hoping that it works? If Bargnani were to be moved I think it goes without saying that a tough interior presence would need to be coming back. If Bosh does not want to stay then I think they need to get a tough center coming back with a high skilled player.

    What do you all think? Can Bosh and Bargnani, on the court at the same time, be a winner? If not do the Raptors ignore it or do they make a move this season or wait for the summer? What do you expect in return for a guy like Bosh or a guy like Bargnani? If I'm missing something please do tell.

  2. #2
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    I definitely think they can co-exist. What is missing is a solid third piece that can make decisions with the ball. Hedo could be that guy if given the opportunity by Jay. While I am not a Jose hater, he does seem to have some stuff pre-programmed in his head as to who he looks for in the half court set.

    I think for Bargs and Bosh to work well, we need movement without the ball and we need to increase the number of passes per possession. Those things happen, you start to get the opposition out of position, they could be forced to switch and you have Bosh and Bargs being covered by a smaller defender.

  3. #3
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    What I see in your post is a focus on improving offensive efficiency and play execution. The thing is that the Raptors are one of the best offensive teams in the league but are one of the worst defensive teams in the league... They're also one of the worst rebounding teams. I will go out on a limb and suggest that many of the losses can be attributed to not playing defense and not rebounding the ball. While these two deficiencies don't land solely on the shoulders of the men in the middle they do play a huge factor in that. Offense isn't the problem in Toronto. I hear very few people in the media criticize the offense of the Raptors but there seems to be a negative consensus on the defense and rebounding.

  4. #4
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    Sure, but you are only talking about 2 men in your question. Bosh is fine defensively, Bargs is not. However, does Andrea's offensive abilities plus his recent attempts at improving his D enough to help this team become a better team in the future? Absolutely. If we had a wing player that played well on the defensive end and (heaven forbid) a half decent PG who defended, we would be steps ahead of where we are now. To say that you may need to get rid of either Bosh or Bargnani in order to fix our defensive woes is horribly short sighted.

  5. #5
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The idea with moving Bosh is that Bargnani would be adequate at the 4 and would just need a prototypical center playing along side of him. I don't doubt Bargnani is going to get better in the middle on D but will "better" be good enough? For the record, I'm not sure which play is best for the team. This thread should help.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic All-Star brothersteve's Avatar
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    You can't take a "have to go" approach to moving assets like Bosh and Bargs. Raps have to get talent back that fully compensates them for what they are giving up.

    Bosh is a 22 & 10+ 1 block player. Raps would need 2 starter/6th man level players who would more than replace the stats. ie. Deng & Noah might be close, but still short value wise. This will be very tough to do.

    Bargs isn't any easier. Raps should want 19 & 8 +1 block back & need a starting caliber center. or why bother?

    If you "have to" (and they don't) make a trade - Bargs is under contract, Bosh can walk at season's end - it isn't a tough decision as to whom you try to move. You move something you might lose for value you can keep.

    Need to find teams that need what you've got and have what the Raps need to give back.
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  7. #7
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    All good points but I'm not suggesting a scenario where the Raptors would absolutely "have to" trade Bargnani. If they wished to go that way I would expect a calm and cool approach, waiting for the right deal. If its Bosh the reality is that it may be a "have to" trade scenario. If he wants out, he wants out.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Starter Gurk's Avatar
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    Our team would be 100 times better with a true center. A one who bangs down low and has good post moves, one who goes for rebounds and can play really good D(be a presence inside). If we get that and pair him with either Bargs or Bosh. We will be a really good team

  9. #9
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Here's a question. Would making a smaller trade, bringing in a guy like Camby, be the right move? I mean Camby is at the end of the line and his asking price probably isn't as high as a few years ago. Again, then you have the tough decision of benching Bargnani during important moments near the end.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter Gurk's Avatar
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    Yeah. Hopefully it won't take much but that would mean benching Bargs. I just hope it doesn't hinder his development

  11. #11
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    We can't keep both Calderon and AB. I'm not sure which one I'd rather keep; I guess it depends on who you can get in return. If it was for the same player in return, AB would be better to keep because he has not hit his prime yet.

    And we can't let Bosh go. No way. We'll turn into Macabi Tel Aviv.

  12. #12
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Here's a question. Would making a smaller trade, bringing in a guy like Camby, be the right move? I mean Camby is at the end of the line and his asking price probably isn't as high as a few years ago. Again, then you have the tough decision of benching Bargnani during important moments near the end.
    I'm not sure that Camby would be an answer to our problems. AB is not that bad as a shot blocker. The problem is that we really have too many european guys on our team. What we really need is a good guard like Igoudala.

  13. #13
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Not to mention typically you don't deal a big man for a guard...Although Colangelo's track record suggests he doesn't care about that unwritten rule--- see the Raptors/Bucks trade of '06.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Starter Gurk's Avatar
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    I guess you could also look at the TO/Indy trade of last year xD
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  15. #15
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    Its funny that without Bosh - that is, with a team of Turk, AB, Calderon, (Evans?) We would need no-one less than Dwayne Wade to make us any good. And even then AB would have to blossom into an all-star caliber player.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Starter Gurk's Avatar
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    DD will be really good for us too. He is blossoming into a really good player game by game. Always driving and getting to the line. If he can hit that shot when depended upon he will be a really good player
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  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    I cant take credit for this...but someone made an astute statement about a week ago which questioned how having your starting point guard and centre be below average defenders can be acceptable if you have visions of being a consistently good team. Forget about Bosh ...Calderon and Bargnani cannot co-exist...and it has nothing to do with their chemistry. Given the choices, for myself Bargnani would need to go. I honestly nelieve BC gave Bargs the contract so he would not need to be compelled to show his offensive numbers anymore and that he would follow thru on the rebounding and blocking aspects of his position (which he showed capable of last season). I dont know what has happened but the plan seems not to have worked and he has regressed in areas more important to the team.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic All-Star brothersteve's Avatar
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    Quote dagon420 wrote: View Post
    Its funny that without Bosh - that is, with a team of Turk, AB, Calderon, (Evans?) We would need no-one less than Dwayne Wade to make us any good. And even then AB would have to blossom into an all-star caliber player.
    That's assuming Bosh was lost for nothing - which hopefully doesn't happen.
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