Shouldn't We HOPE For A Bad Year?

[DoNDaDDa]

Lewis and Allen only left the franchise three seasons ago. It only took them two seasons to restructure before getting back into the post season.

To those of you who think that free agency and trades are a better option for acquiring franchise-level talent in the NBA, you really need to open your eyes. Let's look at last year's standing, shall we?

Eastern Conference

1. Cleveland (drafted LeBron)
2. Orlando (drafted Dwight Howard)
3. Atlanta (drafted Al Horford, drafted Josh Smith, would probably be contending for a title if they drafted a point guard instead of Marvin Williams)
4. Boston - the exception
5. Miami - drafted Wade
6. Milwaukee - drafted Bogut and Jennings
7. Charlotte - team's going nowhere anyway, irrelevant
8. Chicago - drafted Rose and Noah

Western Conference

1. Lakers - traded for Kobe on draft night
2. Dallas - drafted Dirk
3. Phoenix - drafted Amar'e, imported Nash even though they originally drafted him
4. Denver - drafted Carmelo, traded for Nene on draft night
5. Utah - drafted Williams and Boozer
6. Portland - drafted Roy, Aldridge, and Oden though he hasn't had a chance to make an impact much
7. San Antonio - drafted Duncan, Parker, Ginobli
8. OKC - drafted Durant, Westbrook

Now in nearly all of these cases, the franchise players for these teams have been drafted high in the lottery and their teams have built around them. Anyone still want to argue that you've got a better shot at putting together a team through free agency and trades?

most of those teams u mentioned have had some luck in the draft yes but they also made alot of trades to build aswell.

Cleveland & Orlando had 1 good draft & the rest was built through free agency & trade.

Atlanta has drafted a few but it took them like 12 draft years to find a couple players LOL come on!

millwaukee drafted jeenings in the late lottery! bogut???? not sure

charlotte took years & citys in the proccess

chicago got lucky with both picks u mentioned for different reasons

LA has never drafted well!! kobe yes but everyone else was signed or traded for!

Dallas with dirk is the same as LA^^^^^^

Portland took like 10 years to get a few good players!!!!

San Antonio is always finding late draft selections!!! parker wasnt drafted high & im not sure the other were either execpt for maybe duncan everyne else signed or traded for!!

Utah usually finds late 1st rounders & second rounders aswell & im sure Boozer was in cleveland before he signed in Utah!!!!

Pheonix doesnt go anywere without trading for nash! sure he was drafted by BC but he was also traded for marbury & then reaquired

your arguement isnt totaly thought out!

[Apollo]

First off, I really don't think a hard cap will be implemented. Stern has other priorities that he will want to get accomplished first and the luxury tax system he has place works fairly well imo. He is after the guaranteed length of max deals, plus an extra year in college and probably twitter.

How does it work well? I think 10 out of the 16 teams who made the playoffs last year paid taxes and I can't think of a single team in recent time who made the finals and wasn't paying taxes. Taxes do nothing but put down the little guys. The big markets can afford to spend away where as the little guys cannot. It's meant to even things out but it does not work. There is no even playing field as it and it's driving up player prices and so it's hitting the little guy two fold.

The Celtics were nothing like the Heat, they tanked in the Durant season, were stocked with young players and draft picks and then seized an opportunity to get two all stars in the tail end of thier prime for discounted rates. The raps resemble the 2008 pre trade Celtics, the only way they are going to get significantly better is too throw all their chips on the table. Trying to become great through being awful is not viable strategy.

It's a good thing I said they weren't alike by stating the Heat cut out the middle man. Both teams landed big name all-stars, taking advantage of the stature of what the NBA(collectively) deems small market teams(sorry guys but it's the league perception even if it disagrees with ours). With a hard cap what happened this off-season would not be possible. A hard cap rewards building from within and penalizes irresponsible spending. The great players still get paid extremely well but it cuts out the Darko's, Amir's, Tyrus', ect from landing big deals.

The NBA would never allow a city of 100,000 people (Green Bay, Wisconsin) to win back to back championships and be held in the level of regard and prestige that eclipses two NY teams. Not that the NBA brass would block it, but the current CBA would prevent it from being possible. I'm sorry but the NFL is the most successful league in North America and is a shinning model that all should strive to meet. Their CBA rewards smart choices, building from within. It rewards the best players and penalize horrible decision making. It's a league where sound management can turn around a franchise in a handful of years but only strong management can keep a team near the top. Sure, the top teams in the NBA are run well but there are well run teams all around the league who will struggle to no end to keep up with the top dogs because of not having the same sort of coin to throw around.

If a hard cap is brought in everything will take care of itself. There would be no need for max contracts or MLE or BAE. The best players, the guys who truly generate the most revenue for the league, would still make a fortune and the role players will get paid like role players. Not sure why, we the fans, would be against something like that. Imagine, the Lakers and Raptors being on an even playing field. Imagine players playing most of their career, if not all, with small market teams. Players building legacy with one team instead of bouncing around three or four or five or six or seven times. Maybe I'm crazy, I don't know.

[Copywryter]

the thing that all these tools dont realize or are to blind to see is OKC might have a lot of talent now cause they were always high in the lottery but OKC also used to be seattle supersonics!!!!!!! they tanked forr years! no fans wanted to watch! then guess what the team was relocated because nobody in seattle gave a shit about them anymore!!!!! if we follow this model the Toronto Raptors might end up down south!!! do we real raptors fans want our team to tank for years to draft young players only to watch them win for our team in another city! GET REAL!!! ALL U DOOM & GLOOMERS THAT WANT THE TEAM TO TANK WILL BE KICKING YOURSELVES WHEN YOUR WATCHING THE KANSAS CITY RAPTORS WIN IT ALL!!!!!!!!!

You don't know a damn thing about Seattle basketball.

[DoNDaDDa]

You don't know a damn thing about Seattle basketball.

u may be right but my point was they sucked for years & years & then were relocated. im sure some seattle fans wanted to see them tank so they could get high picks, but if they knew the team would be moved aswell they wouldnt have been so excepting of the constant loosing seasons!!!

[Copywryter]

That way we can have a good chance of landing a top 3 lottery pick and REALLY start retooling & rebuilding this franchise, the conventional (i.e. OKC) way.

I generally agree. Fields need to lie fallow every few seasons and I'm not against a Raptor version of last-year's Golden State Warriors, a fun-to-watch 26-win team that was up-tempo and had some stars in development. Add some maturity, some defence, and a few pieces to that team and they win 20 more games.

The danger is of course being the Clippers, who by curse or by crook destroy, ignore, or toss off talent year over year. Even MLSE isn't as bad as their ownership, thank God.

[heinz57]

if you even humor the idea of tanking, you're not a fan of basketball.

the business maybe, but not the sport.

[Mr.Grinch]

To those of you who think that free agency and trades are a better option for acquiring franchise-level talent in the NBA, you really need to open your eyes. Let's look at last year's standing, shall we?

Eastern Conference

1. Cleveland (drafted LeBron)
2. Orlando (drafted Dwight Howard)
3. Atlanta (drafted Al Horford, drafted Josh Smith, would probably be contending for a title if they drafted a point guard instead of Marvin Williams)
4. Boston - the exception
5. Miami - drafted Wade
6. Milwaukee - drafted Bogut and Jennings
7. Charlotte - team's going nowhere anyway, irrelevant
8. Chicago - drafted Rose and Noah

Western Conference

1. Lakers - traded for Kobe on draft night
2. Dallas - drafted Dirk
3. Phoenix - drafted Amar'e, imported Nash even though they originally drafted him
4. Denver - drafted Carmelo, traded for Nene on draft night
5. Utah - drafted Williams and Boozer
6. Portland - drafted Roy, Aldridge, and Oden though he hasn't had a chance to make an impact much
7. San Antonio - drafted Duncan, Parker, Ginobli
8. OKC - drafted Durant, Westbrook

Now in nearly all of these cases, the franchise players for these teams have been drafted high in the lottery and their teams have built around them. Anyone still want to argue that you've got a better shot at putting together a team through free agency and trades?

im not really sure but didn't Carlos \Boozer get drafted by the Cavs?

[Lark Benson]

your arguement isnt totaly thought out!

Oh it's thought out, you just missed the point. I'm talking about finding franchise-level talent, the kind that you BUILD AROUND, which as you pointed out is exactly what all of these teams have done. That's the recipe for success in the NBA - you draft well, you find players that are worth building around, then you go out and find pieces to complement your franchise player's strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes you get lucky by finding a gem with a low pick, but for the most part you need many trips to the lottery to find the players you're looking for, and may experiments in free agency and trades to find the right mix of players. Yes it takes time, yes it's a crap shoot and yes you're often going to pick players that don't work out for you, but the alternative is tying up your cap space through free agency or trade and praying to whatever god you believe in that it all works out.

To further prove my point, consider that aside from Boston in 07-08 and Detroit in 04-05, you have to go back to 82-83 and to Moses Malone's 76ers to find an NBA champion that was led by a player it had not drafted.

[Lark Benson]

im not really sure but didn't Carlos \Boozer get drafted by the Cavs?

Yup, I always forget that.

[Apollo]

And Cleveland might have had a different story told this summer if Boozer didn't screw them over.

[DoNDaDDa]

i for one would not like to see 10 more years of loosing in the hopes that we draft well. alot of the top picks flop & become huge busts. at the same time alot of mid to late lottery picks become allstars. its more of a lottery then some people think & im not just talking pingpong balls.

also with the current attitude among some players about T.O & Canada, along with the fact that most of the players in the league show no loyalty makes me not trust that these guys we would draft over the next years wont just sign with another team after there rookie contract is up.

[Lark Benson]

i for one would not like to see 10 more years of loosing in the hopes that we draft well. alot of the top picks flop & become huge busts. at the same time alot of mid to late lottery picks become allstars. its more of a lottery then some people think & im not just talking pingpong balls.

Nobody WANTS that, but what's your alternative?

The Raptors' biggest free agent signing in their 15 years of existence was Hedo Turkoglu. Like it or not, Toronto has a very hard time attracting free agents. It's entirely possible that as the young players they have develop, the team itself will become more attractive and capable of luring a big name, but if that's the case then guess what? That will likely have been facilitated by the growth of DeRozan, Bargnani and Davis, all of whom the Raptors have drafted.

The other choice is trading for big name talent, and it's much, much more of a crapshoot than the draft. You have to hope that you've got the right pieces to pull off a trade, that the pieces you end up keeping fit well with the player you're bringing in, that said player wants to be with the team, that he has enough years left on his contract that you can develop a team around him before he bolts, and you typically have to give up far more talent than you get unless you luck into a Pau Gasol with a big expiring contract. And if it doesn't work out, in free agency or by trade? Then congratulations, you've got a full salary cap, a bad team and less room for improvement than when you started.

Look, nobody LIKES having to go through losing seasons in order to develop youth and trade assets, but what you have to keep in mind is that the alternative is not only less likely to lead to success but that it can have a tremendously negative effect on the franchise if it's botched. The draft is by far the surest, safest way to develop a contender.

If your goal is to be a team that simply makes the playoffs each year and rakes in money as the first and second round exits pile up, then trade and free agency are for you. If you want to build a contender capable of competing with the league's best for a half-decade or more, then you go with the draft.

[Buddahfan]

That way we can have a good chance of landing a top 3 lottery pick and REALLY start retooling & rebuilding this franchise, the conventional (i.e. OKC) way.

Maybe we should hope for a world war that destroys most of humanity. Then those that are left can start over and try and do it better the next time around. Very biblical you know.

Both ideas smack of defeatism.

Always go as hard as you can for as long as you can and let the chips fall where they may. Laying down is only good if you are sick, want to rest or want to engage in some form of social activity.

[DoNDaDDa]

Nobody WANTS that, but what's your alternative?

The Raptors' biggest free agent signing in their 15 years of existence was Hedo Turkoglu. Like it or not, Toronto has a very hard time attracting free agents. It's entirely possible that as the young players they have develop, the team itself will become more attractive and capable of luring a big name, but if that's the case then guess what? That will likely have been facilitated by the growth of DeRozan, Bargnani and Davis, all of whom the Raptors have drafted.

The other choice is trading for big name talent, and it's much, much more of a crapshoot than the draft. You have to hope that you've got the right pieces to pull off a trade, that the pieces you end up keeping fit well with the player you're bringing in, that said player wants to be with the team, that he has enough years left on his contract that you can develop a team around him before he bolts, and you typically have to give up far more talent than you get unless you luck into a Pau Gasol with a big expiring contract. And if it doesn't work out, in free agency or by trade? Then congratulations, you've got a full salary cap, a bad team and less room for improvement than when you started.

Look, nobody LIKES having to go through losing seasons in order to develop youth and trade assets, but what you have to keep in mind is that the alternative is not only less likely to lead to success but that it can have a tremendously negative effect on the franchise if it's botched. The draft is by far the surest, safest way to develop a contender.

If your goal is to be a team that simply makes the playoffs each year and rakes in money as the first and second round exits pile up, then trade and free agency are for you. If you want to build a contender capable of competing with the league's best for a half-decade or more, then you go with the draft.

Raptors have been drafting stars & trying to lure in players to support our drafted stars ever since mighty mouse! never did work for us. raps lost a lot of games got more picks & then waisted those aswell, then our drafted allstar leaves & we start over the same way everytime. all the while some of the perenial top teams have drafted better players later in rounds & won playoff series after series, won titles & havent missed a beat!!!!

it is a fine line yes

nobody can see the future but if we look at the past it can say alot!

it has never worked for the raptors in the past.

luckly i have faith in BC to fix this mess the right way!

only thing i dont support BC on is Triano.. but i hope im wrong

[Lark Benson]

Raptors have been drafting stars & trying to lure in players to support our drafted stars ever since mighty mouse! never did work for us. raps lost a lot of games got more picks & then waisted those aswell, then our drafted allstar leaves & we start over the same way everytime. all the while some of the perenial top teams have drafted better players later in rounds & won playoff series after series, won titles & havent missed a beat!!!!

it is a fine line yes

nobody can see the future but if we look at the past it can say alot!

it has never worked for the raptors in the past.

luckly i have faith in BC to fix this mess the right way!

only thing i dont support BC on is Triano.. but i hope im wrong

So let me get this straight. Your argument is that BC is going to fix things, even though he was the guy responsible for all of the bad decisions that pushed Bosh out the door in the first place? How does that make any sense?