Will Toronto Do Better As A TEAM With No Stars?

[RaptorsFan4Life]

They clearly wont, just look at all the teams that won the championship. They all had great players, the only team that had a great overall team that I can think of is the Celtics.

I think the Raptors can be better as a team if the plays can mature then they did with Bosh but I don't think they'll be winning anything until we get a true superstar.

[SirChillyMost]

The NBA is a star based league ie superstar calls and non calls, in relation to players & coaches. DeMar & Davis are the 2 Raptor's who currently have that star potential. Unless BC gets a certified star ie Iggy, TO will struggle to get calls on both ends from the ref's post Bosh (imo). Bargnani, BC's franchise player, gets no respect from the refs.

It's the Young Gunz era in TO- roll with it or get rolled over!!!

[mo-sales]

I mentioned earlier if Paul is leaving then a rebuild is imminent and how I read they would try to handcuff Okafor to Paul. They would not need to do that if someone else came along offering expiring contracts. The Raptors have enough in Evans and Banks, enough to make the numbers work. Dealing Okafor for expirings gives them more freedom in moving Paul. I'm sure the Raptors might have to sweeten the pot but the base would be the expiring contracts.

Aren't the raptors in a rebuild? Getting Okafor for the expiring contracts would send a shockwave through the organization. I'm not sure if MLSE wants to spend for a loser, but I'm all for it. It makes much more sense to use the expirings rather than the TPE. I actually forgot they are still a chip BC can use. It would also signal the end of the Bargs era which I for one have finally gotten excited about. I thought Okafor would make Bargs redundant, but what was Tyson Chandler going to do?

Okafor is interesting though. He has one bad year and all of sudden his contract is an albatross. I am pretty sure the signing was semi heralded at the time. I certainly don't think his game fell of a cliff at the tender age of 28. I'm sure NO would love to shed Okafor sans Paul and allow the potential Paul suitors to multiply exponentially. Or NO would replace him with Posey and fast track thier rebuild by shedding all thier dead weight.

[DoNDaDDa]

Wow, why are you dragging Wilt into this? You are right Okafor is a tad under 6-9

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...or-3810/stats/

but I disagree a bit with the whole padding stats thing. Your still competing against NBA
defenders, rebounders, etc., from opposing teams. Your numbers may spike a bit but a
good rebounder is going to be a good rebounder no matter the quality of team. Scoring
on a bad team can go either way depending if you are a guard, etc., but you can assess
that looking at FG%.

Okafor is a solid, not spectacular, slightly undersized 5. On a team with long Forwards who can give him weak side help I think he'd do well. If you look at the 4's we are considering Amir, Bargs, Davis, etc., I think he would do well.

if im not mistaken the raptors are in search of a defender in the post who can play help D so if we bring In okafor & your expecting someone else to play help D for him aswell Then who the hell is going to play help D???????jay triano???????? bargs cant!! amir can to a degree but have to hope he dont foul out!, davis is still going to be a rookie & is going to have enough just adapting to the NBA cant expect him to do alot right away!,

only reason i mentioned wilt was cause he was the poster boy for padding stats, hed get like 10 rebounds just to score 2 points LOL but ya i guess its a little unfair to wilt to mention him in the same category as okafor.

[Apollo]

Aren't the raptors in a rebuild? Getting Okafor for the expiring contracts would send a shockwave through the organization. I'm not sure if MLSE wants to spend for a loser, but I'm all for it.

There are different kinds of rebuilds. It's pretty clear Colangelo rebuilds on the fly. Okafor is a very good player. The majority of the league are "losers". The Raptors need defense, toughness and rebounding anchoring the middle. I haven't heard anyone argue OKafor doesn't bring that. All I've heard is that he "sucks" or he's a "loser". Well why? Ray Allen used to be a loser. Kevin Garnett used to be a loser. Paul Pierce used to be a loser. Billups was once a loser. Most of the league are losers. The argument doesn't make sense to me. Okafor has been on some low talent teams. He finally gets paired with a great player and that guy goes down for half the season. The Hornets missed the playoffs because the whole darn team was built around one guy who never dressed for half the season.

[Raptor Cowboy]

I think we really have to look at causality here... you say "You were either selfish or selfless, either a prolific scorer or a team player," when really, I think the issue is the overall talent level on the team.

A good player on a good team will score less than a good player on a bad team. It doesn't make the player on the bad team selfish, he's just the only/best option. I can think of very few top scoring guys who were flat out selfish (detrimental to a team). Most I think were just in the unfortunate position of playing with poor talent.

I think at the end of the day, talent will win championships. The only team I can recall that won with less talent (comparatively) was Detroit... and then I think it was more the Lakers giving it away.

Not that winning championships is anything the Raptors need to worry about at the moment :P I'm still waiting patiently for our second trip to the second round

[Raptor Cowboy]

Please, no Okafor... if you can't play worth half your salary on a team with CP3, lord only knows what's going to happen on the Raptors... He would immediately be worse than Turk. At least Turk was good when playing with other good players.

[Marz]

Please, no Okafor... if you can't play worth half your salary on a team with CP3, lord only knows what's going to happen on the Raptors... He would immediately be worse than Turk. At least Turk was good when playing with other good players.

So you think 10 points and 9 rebounds is worth less than $5.75M? Not to mention his 1.6 blocks, the fact that he was playing injured for most of last season, and that Paul was only with him for 45 games (and Paul definitely wasn't at full strength).

Sorry to chime in so late on this whole Okafor thing, but the people bashing him have only made one valid reason imo: his salary. I will make another: If you're bringing in Okafor, you should get rid of Bargnani.

[mo-sales]

There are different kinds of rebuilds. It's pretty clear Colangelo rebuilds on the fly. Okafor is a very good player. The majority of the league are "losers". The Raptors need defense, toughness and rebounding anchoring the middle. I haven't heard anyone argue OKafor doesn't bring that. All I've heard is that he "sucks" or he's a "loser". Well why? Ray Allen used to be a loser. Kevin Garnett used to be a loser. Paul Pierce used to be a loser. Billups was once a loser. Most of the league are losers. The argument doesn't make sense to me. Okafor has been on some low talent teams. He finally gets paired with a great player and that guy goes down for half the season. The Hornets missed the playoffs because the whole darn team was built around one guy who never dressed for half the season.

haha, I didn't mean Okafor was a loser, didn't he win with UCONN? I just meant that even if the raps get Okafor I don't see them being that much better than the current squad. The team might be spending, but Okafor is an addition to put a team over the top, not get them out of the basement. A healthy Paul would have improved his stats and value immeasurably.

[MangoKid]

Okafor did have some minor back issues coming out of UConn. Personally, I wouldn't trade for the guy. Don't get me wrong, he's a solid player, but he'd get paid a lot of money for the next 4 seasons or so just to be "Solid". We're also trying to be an uptempo and Okafor doesn't play that style. He's more of a halfcourt set guy. We'd be doing NOLA a favour if we took Okafor off their hands for the Bosh TPE.

[Arsenalist]

So you think 10 points and 9 rebounds is worth less than $5.75M? Not to mention his 1.6 blocks, the fact that he was playing injured for most of last season, and that Paul was only with him for 45 games (and Paul definitely wasn't at full strength).

Sorry to chime in so late on this whole Okafor thing, but the people bashing him have only made one valid reason imo: his salary. I will make another: If you're bringing in Okafor, you should get rid of Bargnani.

It's easy to hate Okafor because he's got a bad contract and disappoints due to his lack of offensive production. At some point we have to just give in to the fact that he's overpaid but is still a pretty good defender. He's basically the anti-Bargnani, a terrible offensive player who is a poorer man's version of Ben Wallace. Calling him overpaid is no different than calling Bargnani overpaid.

The Raptors need to balance their offense and defense this season, so I wouldn't be opposed to a Okafor-type player, but man, have you taken a look at that contract:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_orleans.htm

It's sickening.

[Raptor4Ever]

It's easy to hate Okafor because he's got a bad contract and disappoints due to his lack of offensive production. At some point we have to just give in to the fact that he's overpaid but is still a pretty good defender. He's basically the anti-Bargnani, a terrible offensive player who is a poorer man's version of Ben Wallace. Calling him overpaid is no different than calling Bargnani overpaid.

The Raptors need to balance their offense and defense this season, so I wouldn't be opposed to a Okafor-type player, but man, have you taken a look at that contract:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_orleans.htm

It's sickening.

I agree 100%. Okafor will give Raptors a real center.

It is true that he is over paid but so is Amir Johnson. Many fans here justified Amir's contract due to us being in Canada and Taxes and ... so lets use the same logic for Okafor.

BC just needs to pick up the phone, offer the TPE and can get Okafor and NO's first round pick next year.

[Raptor4Ever]

It seems like CP3 is staying after his Monday meeting with GM and the Coach. I think this will take Okafor officially out of the mix as well.

[SirChillyMost]

I do not, I repeat, do not, want Okafor- especially at his current salary. Dude has some of the shortest arms for a big man that I have ever seen. Okafor is more of a PF than a true NBA center in my mind as well.

[Old guy]

I haven't read what anyone else has said yet, but I have an opinion. I know the Raptors will do better without a star. I know that a star will be born this season in Toronto. They are already showing signs of a close knit team, and I am certain that the management will not bring anyone in that will disrupt that, and is trying hard to get rid of anyone that is disruptive, if any. Hard work will beat talent on a regular basis. Team work will beat talent. If the coaching staff is allowed to coach, the Raptors will be successful. If they aren't allowed to coach then they will not be successful.

Does anyone know what bosh was like to coach? I'm getting the sense he was more of a spoiled brat than anyone. (Aside: I loved the flex at the Heat intro party for the three scoundrels. I am embarrassed for him)

I think Jay is going to do better this year, especially with PJ. I'm confused at Ivaroni last year. Andrea will have a breakout year....I hope he's training.