View Poll Results: Will the Raptors do better as a team without star players?

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Thread: Will Toronto Do Better As A TEAM With No Stars?

  1. #1
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    Default Will Toronto Do Better As A TEAM With No Stars?

    There was an interesting bit of history on a SI post, talking about how the NBA used to be a league where low profile teams always beat Stars.

    Maybe Toronto will actually be further ahead next year with a Bargnani + Johnson/Davis + Kleiza/Weems + DeRozan/Barbosa + Calderon/Jack ... a team where nobody is "The Man", but all are capable, if they play as a TEAM.


    "The biggest impact of Jordan's success in Chicago was his creation of The Man. Before he came along, that title --The Man -- didn't exist in an admirable way. As a matter of fact, if you had someone who saw himself as The Man on your team, you probably weren't going to win the championship.

    In the 43 years before Jordan's title breakthrough in 1990, only once had a player ever led the league in scoring while leading his team to the championship. The only time it happened was in 1970-71 when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (who at that time went by his given name of Lew Alcindor) led the NBA with 31.7 points while carrying the Milwaukee Bucks to their only title. For more than four decades it was a golden rule in the NBA that the highest-scoring players weren't winners. The Celtics lead the NBA with 17 championships, and they've proudly never had a player who led the league in scoring.

    In the pre-Jordan years, an NBA player could follow one of two roads: You could be like Wilt Chamberlain, whose scoring average ranged from 33.5 points to 50.4 points over his first seven seasons, but didn't win a championship until his scoring plummeted to 24.1 points as a 30-year-old with the 76ers in 1966-67; or you could be like Bill Russell, who averaged an unimpressive 15.1 points yet led the Celtics to 11 championships in his 13 seasons.

    The best players couldn't have it both ways in those days. You were either selfish or selfless, either a prolific scorer or a team player. Even Abdul-Jabbar spent much of his career hearing complaints that he was -- apart from his lone breakthrough with the Bucks -- too self-indulgent to be a dominant winner.

    Then along came Jordan to ruin everything. The Bulls won six titles and he was the NBA's No. 1 scorer for every one of those championship seasons. I always thought his legacy did a lot of harm to the NBA by setting an example that his descendants would try and fail to emulate. The NBA has spent the last decade-and-a-half searching for the next Michael Jordan, and it has been a colossally unsuccessful wild goose chase. He was one of a kind, the exception to the rule, and the NBA has made a huge mistake in attempting to hold other players accountable to Jordan's standard."

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz0uep5fq8x

  2. #2
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    When you look at the best teams in the league they all have star power. The Raptors are a lotto team unless Colangelo pulls some trades and lands a guy like Emeka Okafor for example.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Rookie Priest's Avatar
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    Interesting thoughts especially on MJ at the end. However Toronto is still young and inexperienced...these two factors will impact exactly how this team plays against playoff bound teams and "super" teams i.e the Heat and Lakers. Over the next few years depending how exactly these players develop their games and if they do indeed reach their much hyped potential like Andrea and Amir, then yeah a team with no stars suddenly becomes dangerous especially if you let them grow together and pretty much suffer as a team and succeed as a team. But then who knows we may inadvertently draft the next superstar and become a team with a star leading the way, or we may already have one developing right now as we speak...

  4. #4
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    If you look at the Raptors' "glory days" they had some young guys coming a long and then they made some smart trades for strong willed individuals with strong games. I think Okafor(he's on the market now) could be an Antonio Davis to DeMar's Vince Carter. I think Amir Johnson has a lot of the same stuff Keon Clark showed. Ed Davis may not be as mean as Oak but he's tough and he's got talent. If this Raptors team added a few key pieces, such as a true center, a tough defensive PG and a strong defensive SF they would be well on their way to making some noise in the style that was present in the early part of the last decade.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    yes, I think toronto will be better with no stars maybe not right off the bat but in the long run if this team thinks hard work and defense first everything will be good.

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    No, They need a star in the team.

    I was looking at the USA practice game today. This was the top 20 player in the league minus the very elite stars such as Kobe, Bosh, Lebron, Wade, Amare and ...

    Raptor did not even have ONE player in that squad.

    Our YOUNG GUNZ are at best a dependable starter at this league. We are at the bottom of the NBA now with teams such as :

    Cleavland, New Jersey, Detroit

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    When you look at the best teams in the league they all have star power. The Raptors are a lotto team unless Colangelo pulls some trades and lands a guy like Emeka Okafor for example.
    u got to be kidding me right.

    in other threads u bash BC for making too many mistakes & this is your idea of a good addition! give me a break

    okafor sucks & his contract is worse then turk!!! only way BC even entertains the idea is if CP3 would be involved in the deal & thats not going to happen.

  8. #8
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    u got to be kidding me right.

    in other threads u bash BC for making too many mistakes & this is your idea of a good addition! give me a break

    okafor sucks & his contract is worse then turk!!! only way BC even entertains the idea is if CP3 would be involved in the deal & thats not going to happen.
    AGREED! I thought Appollo was joking... until I saw his second post.

  9. #9
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    u got to be kidding me right.

    in other threads u bash BC for making too many mistakes & this is your idea of a good addition! give me a break

    okafor sucks & his contract is worse then turk!!! only way BC even entertains the idea is if CP3 would be involved in the deal & thats not going to happen.
    A guy who hasn't missed a game in three years, defends and posts a career 13 and 10 sucks? He will do more to earn his $11M salary this season than most guys making that around the league.

  10. #10
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    "I think Amir Johnson has a lot of the same stuff Keon Clark showed." Except that AMir isn't a cronic marijuana user like Keon. Keon retired in INdiana so he can golf and get high. AMir is relentless worker who strives to get better. Keon wanted money and soon as he got some left. Okafar wouldn't be a bad pick up but would mean AMir and Davis get less playing time plus it would kill our cap space. If the raps feel fine using weems or derozan as back up three then I think we could get away with current roster. Let the young guys play. THe only reason Chris Bosh got so good was because he played alot and was aloud to play through his numerous mistakes. Let the young guys get better. Cheapest way to success

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter Hassan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    When you look at the best teams in the league they all have star power. The Raptors are a lotto team unless Colangelo pulls some trades and lands a guy like Emeka Okafor for example.
    Emeka isnt a star power forward not even close

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter Hassan's Avatar
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    I cant see us winning with no allstars but maybe we could do what the pistons did and 5 really good players and no allstars
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=257sfru what do you guys think of this trade?

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    When you look at the best teams in the league they all have star power. The Raptors are a lotto team unless Colangelo pulls some trades and lands a guy like Emeka Okafor for example.
    I say that you are wrong and that the team as currently constructed will make the playoffs.

    However lets wait until October and see what the opening day rosters on all teams in the EC look like to see if you still want to make a losing bet #pause
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  14. #14
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    A guy who hasn't missed a game in three years, defends and posts a career 13 and 10 sucks? He will do more to earn his $11M salary this season than most guys making that around the league.
    Apollo-Are you his agent?

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Apollo-Are you his agent?
    i think hes really Rob Babock!!!

    Emeka Okafor is a PF trapped in a SF Frame is nowere close to being good & id say its an insult to antonio davis to say there alike.

    whos next brett farve as our new starting PG LOL

  16. #16
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    "I think Amir Johnson has a lot of the same stuff Keon Clark showed." Except that AMir isn't a cronic marijuana user like Keon. Keon retired in INdiana so he can golf and get high.
    I'm talking about Keon's game and how his game was in Toronto. I never mentioned anything about after he left Toronto. I was referring to the Raptors of early last decade and I apologize if that wasn't clear enough.

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Keon wanted money and soon as he got some left.
    If somebody else offered Amir Johnson more money than Colangelo he probably would have left. It's the nature of the beast. Colangelo prevented that from happening by giving Amir a contract no other GM would probably dare to offer.

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Okafar wouldn't be a bad pick up but would mean AMir and Davis get less playing time plus it would kill our cap space.
    Davis and Johnson can't guard centers. They need a true center and they're not going to accomplish anything of significance until they get that even if it's not Okafor.

    What cap space are you speaking of? The Raptors are capped. It benefits the Raptors' on court product to be far closer to the luxury tax threshold than the salary cap.

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    If the raps feel fine using weems or derozan as back up three then I think we could get away with current roster.
    You think those two can handle the likes of Melo and Deng down low on the block?

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Let the young guys play. THe only reason Chris Bosh got so good was because he played alot and was aloud to play through his numerous mistakes.
    I agree but when he came in they threw him out there at center, a position he had no business playing and no one knows the long term implications of him taking those beatings early on in his career. DeMar is fine at the 2 and he's going to get lots of PT there. Sonny is a role player and he's never going to be a star. I think people are shooting for the moon with him similar to how people were looking at JaMario Moon after his first seasons. I swear I was reading in some places(other forums) how he was going to be as good as Gerald Wallace. Right.

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    I can't believe how everybody is all over Apollo for wanting to get Okafor. Its so unbelievably clear that none of you nay-sayers have ever watched Okafor play before. You can't just say somebody sucks because you feel like it, its funny how bad some of your bball knowledge is. Oak-Tree would be an absolutely perfect centre for this team. He's a double-double guy, play's great defence, and is modest. Could of of you geniuses tell me why he would be a bad fit again?

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    Emeka Okafor is a PF trapped in a SF Frame is nowere close to being good & id say its an insult to antonio davis to say there alike.
    okafor is 6'10 and 255lbs

    in 15 seasons davis only averaged more than 9.9 rbds ONCE

    in 6 season okafor has averaged more than 9.9 rbds FIVE TIMES.

    dondadda, dont play video games and then bring that bullshit knowledge that u have here...

  19. #19
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    Davis and Johnson can't guard centers. They need a true center and they're not going to accomplish anything of significance until they get that even if it's not Okafor.

    "What cap space are you speaking of? The Raptors are capped. It benefits the Raptors' on court product to be far closer to the luxury tax threshold than the salary cap. "

    Three years 42 million is alot for a undersized centre with a back problem. And that would kill our cap room for three years compared to chandlers one year 13 million.

    "You think those two can handle the likes of Melo and Deng down low on the block? "
    Are melo and deng back up three's? Plus thats why Kleiza was signed to match up against big 3's.

    "If somebody else offered Amir Johnson more money than Colangelo he probably would have left. It's the nature of the beast. Colangelo prevented that from happening by giving Amir a contract no other GM would probably dare to offer."
    The reason BC jumped the gun is because AMir wasn't a restricted free agent so amir would have got a similar contract from another team look at Matthews (utah and portland). I agree young Clark is alot like AMir but I see a desire to become really good that Keon didn't have.
    Sonny Weems could become a defensive stopper similar to tony Allen but has the potential to be as good or slightly better offensively as Ronald Murray. SO your right Weems is a role player but he could potentially become one of the best role players ever seen in a raptors uniform.

  20. #20
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    A guy who hasn't missed a game in three years, defends and posts a career 13 and 10 sucks? He will do more to earn his $11M salary this season than most guys making that around the league.
    the man also is averaging 1.8 blocks a game for his career...

    so 13 pts 10 rbds n 1.8 blocks...

    yea u dumb raptor fans, okafor is trash !

    noah is way better with his 8 pts 8 rbds 1.3 blocks...

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