No 'love affinity" for Ford, just an observation.Marz wrote:
Once you bring up Turkologu and 'shot creator' in the same sentence you've lost my attention.
No 'love affinity" for Ford, just an observation.
Once you bring up Turkologu and 'shot creator' in the same sentence you've lost my attention.
I think everyone can agree chris is a talented player but was/is he a franchise player. IMO he is not a franchise player and BC didn't have to come out with his statements for me to see that. One of the biggest problems with chris was that he didn't command a double team and that is mainly because he can't put his back to the basket. His defense was not the best especially when it comes to help defense. The league has so few good big men that bosh ends up looking better than he actucally is. BC in the interview was simply saying why things never worked out.
Jack Armstrong in Fan590 today questioned and condemned BC for saying what he said about Bosh. BC is embarrassing himself these days by acting like bitter looser.
For what it's worth Marz and many others here have tried to point out to you that BC was entirely correct in saying he and MLE tried repeatedly to add pieces to build around RuPaul and compliment his game and yes Turk was a shot creator and a much better player until he joined forces with the RuPaul one man show. ( I will not let Turk off that easy because he is also a lazy fat piece of shit). The point everyone who actually sees the game without blowing RuPaul at the same time is that all the pieces were added to compliment RuPaul and he could not make anything work. Do not say they were the wrong pieces as they should have gotten stars as this was the best available. It's been said but while Miami was clearing cap space Wade still turned in a solid season with an inferior team to the Raptors, while RuPaul turned in a nice stat sheet.
Sleepz your comments say you are a disgruntled RuPaul fan rather than a Raptor fan and by the way I forgot more about basketball that you know. Also I am not obsessed with RuPaul as you put it, rather I am pissed that morons continue to praise the dick and slam everyone else. He's gone and good riddance. What happened to his only wanting to be the MAN??
I think we saw over the 7 years that Bosh isn't a 'franchise player', but who is? There are maybe 5 guys in the league that you can say if he's the best player, you can definitely win a championship (Howard, LeBron, Wade, Durant, Kobe) and all of them has flaws (especially Howard). And LeBron felt he had to team up with Wade to win. And even Kobe, who has been annointed as the closest thing to Jordan, still needed guys like Gasol, Artest and Odom to win. So it's little unfair for The GM to take shots at him and say he wasn't worth 'franchise player' when they never paired him with a sure fire all star (or all star calibre talent) during his tenure here. Remember, someone gave Joe Johnson $120 Million. Another person gave Rudy Gay over $80 Million. For as flawed as Bosh was/is, he still is a top shelf talent and someone that can be a major contributor to a winning team. As flawed as John Hollinger's PER ratings are, the best guys that he played with during that time were Calderon and Ford during that 41-41 season (sadly, the 3rd best PER was Mike James 2 yrs before).
I just wish The GM would have gone on the radio and said something to the effect of "We can't look back, whatever happened happened and we have to look forward and I believe in the course we're taking and we have a clear vision where we want to be." Even if all this is true and Bosh was a tanker blah blah blah, this is still a team without a top shelf offensive threat, too many bad defensive players, too many point guards and too few options at the 3 and 5. He sounded like he was angry that he didn't sign with Houston or Chicago so he could get back more in a sign and trade (which was probably what he was banking on) so he decided to air his dirty laundry. Jack Armstrong made the best point. If Bosh had decided to come back, The GM and the organization would have welcomed him back with open arms and none of this would have seen the light of day.
Others have tried to point out to me? What credentials do others have that 'others' opinions are the gospel? lol Do you think the racist tinged comments you throw out make you an authority about something? lol
You talk about "I forgot more about basketball that you know" and still refer to Turkologu as a shot creator? If you want to call him a shot facilitator you can but Turkologu is taking NO ONE off the dribble, not collapsing any defences, and then getting his teammates looks. Wade, Paul, Kobe, heck even Steven Jackson are shot creators, Turkolgu is definitely not. Don't overestimate your knowledge or underestimate mine.
The pieces that MLSE added were marginal at best (Turkologu, Marion for half a year, O'Neal, all average). As well they had a #1 pick and unfortunately did not get the best player in the draft. Hindsight is indeed 20/20 but facts are facts. Miami did have a better year than the Raptors cause Wade is a top 5 player in the NBA, and they had little roster turnover, played DEFENCE, and had better coaching and mangement. Tell me I'm lying.
I'm not a disgruntled Bosh fan, I'm just not an erratic delusional hater. Every GM and coach around the league disgrees with your opinion on the player but you hold steadfast. He decided he wants to go to a team and win so because he said he wants to BE THE MAN, I should hate on him like you did? His decision showed this wasn't the case, so doesn't this end your talk? Colangelo said he wants to bring championships to Toronto, but I don't see you hating on him for making this a non-desirable destination for real basketball players speaking his nonsense. Playing gimmick ball, running up and down the court trying to sell tickets through 3pt shots and scoring instead of defence and accountability is no way to win championships. I don't hear you saying a damn thing about giving #1 picks a free ride and not holding them accountable, when they proclaim their laziness. I can keep going believe me.
No one is praising anyone, just wondering where all the racist tinged hatred is coming from? You hear anything about noodles or pasta and it's racist and you're up in arms but your comments are all good and based on facts?
The dudes gone and you're still talking about him. Give it a rest and focus on the team you wanted for next year. Step to me anytime you have something ball related and i'll place you back in the rafters where you belong.
Can you please point out to me where my racist comments are? I am not a racist. Also can you explain what step to me means and place me back in the rafters? Is this some kind of slang? Also how exactly do you know that every GM and coach agrees with you. Funny that they all agree with you and Khandor since you apparently both know them perrsonally.
Hedo Turkoglu demonstrated he was a point-forward, and therefore able to set his teammates up for shots (See Rashard Lewis) in Orlando. If you want to completely disregard that fact in your arguments, then I'm sorry, but you've lost my attention.
Alot of people are holding bosh leave against BC. It is BC job to explain how and why bosh leaving can be a good thing for the organization going forward. bosh wade lebron had this thing planned a long time ago bosh could have said 2 years ago he wasn't going to stay and let the organization start rebuilding but he didn't and he gets some well earn criticism for it.
Point forward in Orlando. Tell me how often you saw him take his man off the dirbble WITHOUT the pick from Howard or Lewis?
Calderon is a pg and anyone can tell you he's NOT a shot creator. He set-s up his teammates as a facilitator but is not a shot creator. Facilitating through pick and roll scenarios is not shot creating. Shot creators or at least ,how I know them to be referred as, are those players that can create their own shots and shots for others in man to man situations. Turkoglu is not that kind of player, neither in Toronto or was he in Orlando as his handles are not good enough and he is not quick enough to do this.
Taking your man off the dribble and creating a shot are not the same thing. If that's what you're limiting your definition to then I strongly disagree. Yes, taking your man off the dribble results in the creation of a shot. So does having a defender bite on a pump-fake, fake pass, etc. So does having defenders collapse on you as you're going to the rim. So does recognizing the open man and making the decision that he can score from where he is. As far as I'm concerned, "shot facilitator" and "shot creator" are the same thing: making shots less difficult for yourself or your teammate.
If we use your definition, Monta Ellis is one of the best shot creators in the league. Unfortunately, most of his created shots go to himself. Not exactly someone I'd use to build around Bosh.
Marz well said!! How are shot facillitator and creator different. Is it an actual position with a definition somewhere that's gospel, or something he made up to defend his position. Seems alot like Khandor who also knows everything.
I'll be clearer for you since you are dealing in semantics. Taking your man off the dribble, and collapsing the defence so other defenders are coming to help and finding open teammtes as result of the defence collapsing or help defence coming. The creation part entails getting teammates good looks through your penetration and/or creation of offence for yourself. Pump fakes and fake passes are nice but how frequently do they positively result in creating shots? You can break down your man of the dribble 5 times cause he can't stay in front of you, go to the basket twice and on the other 3 occasions dish to a teammate that is open from his man having to help on you. How often are you going to achieve that on the same defender through pump-fakes? This is the NBA
Using the same example, Jose is a facilitator. He runs the offence and gets the ball to players in the context of the offence. He does not create shots for teammates. Calderon is not creating shots for teammates, he's facilitating through the offence. If you want to play with words to indicate your point thats fine, but once again, I would respect that you ask a coach on basically any level of basketball, what the difference is and lets see if they make a significant distinction between the 2. Not asking you to take my word for it at all.
Ask those that have more knowledge and understanding of the game than you are I and then you can determine if indeed shot facilitation and shot creators are one in the same. Do you think they will argue that they are the same thing or is it about trying to correct my definition? Regardless of me not being as clear as you would like, they are not the same things.
Once again, I would refer you to those that know more about basketball than you or I, and see if they say it's the same thing.
If you think I'm making it up we can indeed inquire with a coach or basketball personnel. I have friends that have played D1 ball, and pro ball in Europe and I'm sure they can provide us with a definition or a distinction (if there is any) by asking one of their previous coaches.
If you think I'm making stuff up, I say go to a better and more reliable source which I am more than willing and anxious to do.
You can call me whatever you want as you are good at insulting people as evidenced by your frequent ranting posts, and just to be clear I've never claimed to know everything........I just know significantly more than you.
You still have not answered me on how I am a racist. You do not make serious accusations like that without backup or proof. I hae no issue with your basketball preferences, and I happen to see the game much much different than you and I have been playing basketball and watching it for many years. I have held Raptor season tickets since day 1 and rarely miss a game. That said you and I can disagree everytime but please tell me again how I am a racist!
But you can have collapsing defenses without breaking your man off the dribble! If I go around a pick and drive to the rim the defense will surely collapse. What I'm saying is you don't have to break your man off the dribble in order to create. Getting a man to leave their feet with a pump fake, driving to the rim, and dishing to the open shooter in the corner is just as effective (if not more, since your defender is in the air as you're doing this).
Semantics and word play. The original argument was, is there a difference between shot creators and shot facilitators which you said there was not.
Should we still verify this or have you moved on from your original position?
Moved on from basketball debates now? Good idea.
You're what I call an inverted racist. Careful not to say anything too inflamitory but going to comment on a man's child and call the child a "bastard" child like you know for a fact that Chris Bosh is not a responsible father.
You don't have any knowledge of this other than some court order (which many couples that have problems go through) by his ex-girlfriend but feel it gives you cause to make these callous comments. The nuclear family and child raising with two active parents is an active issue amongst African Americans and blacks such as myself here in Canada so it's offensive to hear someone who has no personal knowledge of anything at all make derrogatory comments on family affairs that aren't theirs.
The 'inverted' part comes in because you are quick to jump on people who say anything at all about Bargnani and pasta as some form of racism or any commentary about Euros' like you are championing the cause of the weak and abused. Bargnani made a pasta commercial did he not?lol Don't tell me "well Chris Boshes child is a bastard child cause thats the definition of it" but it's said with malice and you should be ashamed of yourself for doing it.
You don't know anything about his personal affairs or his relationship with his daughter other than some quick news story. I have a child with a woman that I am not married to and if you see my in the streets and say that to me you will be put in your place, trust me. I'm sure every couple you encounter that has a child and are not married, you don't refer to thier child as a bastard child. You're just trying to be derrogatory and mean spirited and it's embarrasing cause this forum that is or should be just about basketball.
Stick to talking about ball and try not to be as insensitive to others as you are, unless of course it has something to do with Italians, in which event you are quick to be aware and conscious of what others may say.
Do you need me to break down anything else for you or have you now been dealt with sufficiently(?), cause I am done with you unless you muster up the courage to talk about basketball.
Last edited by sleepz; Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 05:01 PM.
Oh I get it now! I'm a racist because I hit a sore spot for you. Did not mean to get personal here but guess what when I made the comment about RuPaul I was not the only guy calling his kid a bastard ( definition). I did not mean anything personal to you or anyone else and that hardly makes me a racist, or especially an inverted racist whatever that is. As for the Italian pasta thing really it has never bothered me, even being called a wop by my friends, however I bet if I talked about food that was special to African Americans in reference to an African American player then you would really have called me a racist. My comments at the time were in a heated moment describing RuPaul as a deadbeat dad which I am but one of the thousands who referred to him as such. Perhaps it is you who are a racist with your continuing shots at Bargnani and other Euros. Perhaps you think no one else can or should play basketball.
I have played with many guys of all colours and have never ever been accused of racism, so stuuf that up your ass because you are only pissed because of your personal situation which does not make me a racist.
Meantime I have not moved on from basketball debates,,I simply have a hard time debating with someone who cannot open their eyes to different styles of basketball, someone who makes shit up as they go, and someone who quite franly takes everything about RuPaul way more personally than anyone should who is actually a Raptor fan and watched that loser screw this team, city and his teamates so he could go be LeDouche's and Wade's bitch. ( sorry should I check with you about using that word too?)
Sleepz one other thing.... I am not sure how this ever got personal when it started about whether BC should have called out RuPaul. Fact is I cannot stand the guy or his game and am glad to be rid of him, and you love the guy and his game. I also disagree with you on BC and just about eveything else basketball, and the reason I get heated on this blog occasionally is not because don't like a good debate or different views, it's because I don't like getting preached to by someone who professes to know everything. What you know besides facts is your opinion and only that. Do not get condescending like the asshole Khandor.
There other than that I am actually not a bad guy and do not want a personal fight here or anywhere else especially about basketball so I am SORRY for anything I said that offended you personally as that was not my intention, nor am I a racist.
Have a good evening!
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