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Thread: Too many europeans on this team ?

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    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Default Too many europeans on this team ?

    I honestly believe this is one the reasons why this team fails on many aspects of the game!! Hedo, Jose, Bargs,Bellinelli and Rasho.Think about it they are great shooters and passers, but can't play any defense at all !! they show no emotions at all(Bargs and Rasho) and if they do they are lauighing at themselves (hedo). I honestly they got no heart except maybe Jose.

    They are not leaders and if anyone can tell me of a european being leader please tell me who cause i cant think one. Some might say Manu but he really isn't because he is still used as a 6th man !!

    The only guys stepping up and saying something right now are jack and Wright who publically have adressed this issue. Bosh just seems like he wants to his numbers at this point (28 and 12) so he bank and get his Max contract.

    You look at the Celts no Europeans at all !! look at the Lakers One european Pau gosal, spurs two and one is only starting. We got 3 european starters !!! and we get torched on D night in and night out only one that should be starting is Hedo with Bargs and Jose coming off the Bench !!
    Last edited by rdiaz101; Thu Dec 3rd, 2009 at 02:13 PM.

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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    I honestly believe this is one the reasons why this team fails on many aspects of the game!! Hedo, Jose, Bargs,Bellinelli and Rasho.Think about it they are great shooters and passers, but can't play any defense at all !! they show no emotions at all(Bargs and Rasho) and if they do they are lauighing at themselves (hedo). I honestly they got no heart except maybe Jose.

    They are not leaders and if anyone can tell me of a european being leader please tell me who cause i cant think one. Some might say Manu but he really isn't because he is still used as a 6th man !!

    The only guys stepping up and saying something right now are jack and Wright who publically have adressed this issue. Bosh just seems like he wants to his numbers at this point (28 and 12) so he bank and get his Max contract.

    You look at the Celts no Europeans at all !! look at the Lakers One european Pau gosal, spurs two and one is only starting. We got 3 european starters !!! and we get torched on D night in and night out only one that should be starting is Hedo with Bargs and Jose coming off the Bench !!
    Unfortunately we can't generalize and say it's because of the Europeans that we're soft or emotionlesss... It's because of the specific Europeans that are on this team, with the exception of Marco Belinelli they are all soft undoubtedly. That's not to say they're not great players. I'm a big fan of Rasho, Hedo and love watching Bargnani when he's shooting the lights out--

    Look at a team like the Spurs that have been using the international scouting model for quite some time with high level of success, as well as the Kings of the early 2000s... they have gritty hard-nosed Euros.

    We had one of those in Garbajosa until his freak injury... but yes, the specific Euros on this team are quite soft. I think the can all be effective to various degrees depending on the makeup of the roster, but when your franchise player is pretty soft as well, it's probably not a good idea to surround him with equally nonchalant and 'soft' players.

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    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Yeah the spurs have one tough and gritty European player and thats Parker, Manu is still inconsistent, for sure they can all be effective on certain roster spots but the way we are depending on them right now which is to play D and be leaders is not going to work and like u said Bosh being soft himself.

    We need athleticism and toughness, this team wont have that with Europeans in 3 spots in the starting line up. I would almost Put Amir at the 5 a la Ben Wallace instead of Bargs and start Jack over Jose .

    If they really wanna shake up this team thats certainly a way of doing it!!

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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    Yeah the spurs have one tough and gritty European player and thats Parker, Manu is still inconsistent, for sure they can all be effective on certain roster spots but the way we are depending on them right now which is to play D and be leaders is not going to work and like u said Bosh being soft himself.

    We need athleticism and toughness, this team wont have that with Europeans in 3 spots in the starting line up. I would almost Put Amir at the 5 a la Ben Wallace instead of Bargs and start Jack over Jose .

    If they really wanna shake up this team thats certainly a way of doing it!!
    Agreed. Prior to blowing up the team maybe we should explore a different combination for the rotations to see which players are the most effective together.

    Having said that, Mitchell benched Bargnani in the past and we know how that ended... a) Bargnani lost confidence and went in a hideous slump and b) Mitchell eventually lost his job.

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    Sometimes I wonder if the reason they're all so lost on defense is because they can't communicate. All these Europeans come from different countries and speak different languages primarily so maybe in the heat of a single play they might jumble up instructions and then someone is hung out to dry. Yeah, maybe I'm reaching, but there's gotta be some explanation other than "they're soft".

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    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    PG: Tony Parker
    SG: Ginobli
    SF: AK-47
    PF: Dirk
    C: Gasol

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    I don't think defence is that genetic or specific to a continent.

    I agree that the defense in the euroleagues is sub par. Jose was considered a great defensive point guard over there. Andrea came to our club without a clue about rebounding and boxing out after playing 3 years in that league. So, as you can probably guess, I am not a big fan of filling starting positions with euroleague talent.


    My biggest problem is that management went out of their way to make this club seem like a good destination for European players while alienating NA talent. Even if that effort, was minimal, it still cost us a lot of respect around the league come free agent time.

    It's almost sad, that the minute a European player falls out of favour with his club, the papers have us as strong possible suitors. Yet when players like Artest, AI or Jackson suffer the same fate, we are never interested in these headcases even when they bring exactly the things we lack. Why are we so gaga over 3pt shooters, and so luck warm to true and tested defenders?

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    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote trizzo wrote: View Post
    I don't think defence is that genetic or specific to a continent.

    I agree that the defense in the euroleagues is sub par. Jose was considered a great defensive point guard over there. Andrea came to our club without a clue about rebounding and boxing out after playing 3 years in that league. So, as you can probably guess, I am not a big fan of filling starting positions with euroleague talent.


    My biggest problem is that management went out of their way to make this club seem like a good destination for European players while alienating NA talent. Even if that effort, was minimal, it still cost us a lot of respect around the league come free agent time.

    It's almost sad, that the minute a European player falls out of favour with his club, the papers have us as strong possible suitors. Yet when players like Artest, AI or Jackson suffer the same fate, we are never interested in these headcases even when they bring exactly the things we lack. Why are we so gaga over 3pt shooters, and so luck warm to true and tested defenders?

    Exactly !! This management went crazy with trying to make this team "european " and it failed. You look at when we had the most success the frontcourt was Antonio, Oak and Tmac. Antinio rebounded and even had a nice inside game, Oak was old school no easy baskets down there when he was in and Tmac could score.

    Now we got Two guys that wanna play outside the three and one guy that takes perimater shots all night long, when he should be playing down low ! On defense Bosh is finally using his quickness to rebound only took him 4 years to figuere it out, Hedo and Bargs get outmuscled for low post positons and rebounds. When u let sub par low post players like Dampier,Haywood, Perkins get underneath the basket they are going to score !

    The only player that i have seen to bring in some grit is Garbo like some said earlier, i said Manu but he's from argentina. Maybe im looking into it too much but i have seen euro league games and its high scoring, lots of threes, up and down the court not really much defense. It's like all those teams know thats the games are going to be like that , sounds great but tell that to Celtics !!

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    I don't really see how where a player came from really matters. It's like saying the Raptors have too many Southerners. "Oh in the south its always warm and hot so the players are more lazy". It's insane.

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    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote barkingclam wrote: View Post
    I don't really see how where a player came from really matters. It's like saying the Raptors have too many Southerners. "Oh in the south its always warm and hot so the players are more lazy". It's insane.
    Read my Post before u try and make it seem like im being racist or biased towards N. american players, u ever watched Euro league Ball ? like i said before Lots of threes, "run and Gun" O , great shooting players, etc.

    But not much Half court offense and SHIT DEFENSE, its back and forth Game all i am saying is that these players have come from that type of game and have some very bad habits on D . They don't box out and are basically SOFT.

    So read my posts next time before u talk shit.

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    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote: View Post
    PG: Tony Parker
    SG: Ginobli
    SF: AK-47
    PF: Dirk
    C: Gasol
    Wow great line up probably would average around 110 points per game eh? How many points do you think they would let Opponents score ?

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    I honestly believe this is one the reasons why this team fails on many aspects of the game!! Hedo, Jose, Bargs,Bellinelli and Rasho.Think about it they are great shooters and passers, but can't play any defense at all !! they show no emotions at all(Bargs and Rasho) and if they do they are lauighing at themselves (hedo). I honestly they got no heart except maybe Jose.

    They are not leaders and if anyone can tell me of a european being leader please tell me who cause i cant think one. Some might say Manu but he really isn't because he is still used as a 6th man !!

    The only guys stepping up and saying something right now are jack and Wright who publically have adressed this issue. Bosh just seems like he wants to his numbers at this point (28 and 12) so he bank and get his Max contract.

    You look at the Celts no Europeans at all !! look at the Lakers One european Pau gosal, spurs two and one is only starting. We got 3 european starters !!! and we get torched on D night in and night out only one that should be starting is Hedo with Bargs and Jose coming off the Bench !!
    I feel the title of this thread stinks of prejudice. I think the post is disgustingly prejudice.

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    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I feel the title of this thread stinks of prejudice. I think the post is disgustingly prejudice.
    HA Ha considering im Spanish ....take it as u want appollo.... btw that pic is pretty disgusting whos that wierd black guy ?

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I don't care what language you speak. Americans aren't the only people who know how to lead and based on what's going on down there right now its obvious that, they as a nation, may not even be anywhere near the top in that area anymore.

    You don't know this gentleman to my left? Can someone please help this guy?

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    You don't know this gentleman to my left? Can someone please help this guy?
    I'm pretty sure that's Isaac from the "Love Boat".


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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    LOL, close but no.



    In the 1997–1998 season, Carter served as an assistant coach for the Toronto Raptors under Darrell Walker. He was promoted to the head coach position mid-way through the 1997–1998 season after Walker led the team to a franchise low (11-38) record. Carter finished the remainder of the season with a (5-28) record.[1] During the shortened 1998-99 NBA season, Carter coached the Raptors to a (23-27) record, improving the team's winning percentage by .308 from the all-time franchise low (16-66) season. The second year also brought upon talent and scoring power from NBA All-Star Vince Carter, who played his rookie year on Carter's roster.[2] In the 1999-2000 season, Carter coached the Raptors to their first winning season, with a (45 - 37) record, resulting in the team's first playoff appearance. Carter's turnaround of the Raptors from a franchise-worst dismal (16-66) record to a (45-37) record and a playoff berth in two and a half seasons was a great success. However, the playoff berth was short lived as the Raptors were eliminated in the first round by the Knicks.

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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    Maybe im looking into it too much but i have seen euro league games and its high scoring, lots of threes, up and down the court not really much defense. It's like all those teams know thats the games are going to be like that , sounds great but tell that to Celtics !!
    Doh. This is fun, considering that most Europeans don't like NBA games because they say that they don't play any defence (excluding, maybe, a few play-off games).
    And no, hard fouls are not good defence...

    Ciao,
    Davide.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    In the the leagues overseas what is considered a foul is far different than what is called in the NBA. Players in the overseas leagues have to take a lot more punishment because of it. A lot of teams play zone over there and as such it strikes me as odd that Jay has so much trouble with zone... Maybe is because he "can't find time to practice it"?

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    Quote morci wrote: View Post
    Doh. This is fun, considering that most Europeans don't like NBA games because they say that they don't play any defence (excluding, maybe, a few play-off games).
    And no, hard fouls are not good defence...

    Ciao,
    Davide.
    Davide,

    That does not explain the struggle that top Euroleague players have with defense when they come to play in the NBA.

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    Quote trizzo wrote: View Post
    Davide,

    That does not explain the struggle that top Euroleague players have with defense when they come to play in the NBA.
    The completely different defence system explains it.
    In Europe you don't try to stop someone who's driving to the basket, you force him into an help defender. In the NBA once you get rid of the man guarding you, you have an easy layup, this never happens in Europe.
    So, in Europe, a good defence is a system in which you are able to help and your team mates rotate in order to recover and not allow an easy basket.
    In the NBA a good defence starts with a single player able to stop the man with the ball.
    Then you have elite defensive teams in the NBA where they are good on the ball and as a system and you have elite defensive teams in Europe where they have a good team defence but are also good on the ball.

    Ciao,
    Davide.

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