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Thread: ESPN: The NBA Needs to Ask Itself If It Wants To Be In Toronto

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default ESPN: The NBA Needs to Ask Itself If It Wants To Be In Toronto

    This comes from the FAN590 via ESPN's "Mike and Mike in the Morning" show.

    So Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic were on ďMike and Mike in the MorningĒ on ESPN radio earlier today and they had some interesting (although uninformed) comments about the city of Toronto and whether or not this is still a viable market for the NBA.

    While both hosts admitted that they love the city overall - and enjoy visiting - they said they donít believe that any star wants to come here and that Americans donít want to live in Canada. Iím paraphrasing, but those are the basic nuts and bolts of their statements.

    If, as Mike and Mike suggest, the NBA needs to ask itself if it wants to be in Toronto Ö perhaps the Raptors attendance figures should be researched. Take a look at where this team is in those rankings year after year. Not only are the Raps in the upper HALF almost every year, theyíve frequently been in the top 10 in attendance rankings since they came into the league 15 years ago. And while many local media outlets (in Toronto and Canada) choose to ignore this fact, the Raptors local television rankings are among the best in the entire league. I saw a report last year that had Torontoís TV ratings behind only the Lakers and Cavaliers local numbers.
    Source - Click here

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    this bothers me alot.

    this is why i feel we cant just tank for the next few years, even though we have good attendence & tv rating these vultures down south are looking for any reason to justify moving raptors to Las Vegas or some other market.

    everytime i think about just stock piling lottery drafted players for the next few years im reminded of what happened to Seattle, they got what they wanted, durrant & bunch of other quality players through the draft then had to watch them win in another city!

    these guys mike & mike are tools but if were not carefull it might happen some day

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    this bothers me alot.

    this is why i feel we cant just tank for the next few years, even though we have good attendence & tv rating these vultures down south are looking for any reason to justify moving raptors to Las Vegas or some other market.

    everytime i think about just stock piling lottery drafted players for the next few years im reminded of what happened to Seattle, they got what they wanted, durrant & bunch of other quality players through the draft then had to watch them win in another city!

    these guys mike & mike are tools but if were not carefull it might happen some day
    Not sure about the rules of relocating a team but wasn't the thing in Seattle because the owners wanted to move?
    I think we should start worrying if MLSE ever sell the Raps to an American, but as long as they keep making money for the good ol' Teachers Pension I can't see that happening.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Quote Mush wrote: View Post
    Not sure about the rules of relocating a team but wasn't the thing in Seattle because the owners wanted to move?
    I think we should start worrying if MLSE ever sell the Raps to an American, but as long as they keep making money for the good ol' Teachers Pension I can't see that happening.
    As I understood it, the arena was too old, small (because the owner didn't want it to be big enough for the NHL) so they needed a new arena and the city/state didn't want to pich in the money.

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    Default Chill

    This sounds like sports radio at its worst. First of all the decision is not the NBA's but MLSE's and they seem to be making money in the enterprise. If MLSE's goal was nothing more than booking a few more dates in the barn they've done well from a business perspective. An entirely moot point from ESPN's perspective and more reason to ignore them entirely. The NBA would not contract and outside of Seattle and maybe Las Vegas is there a city that would be more attractive for the players AND be profitable? There are too many wobbly franchises in the US to cast a jaundiced eye at TO. Mike and Mike have little grasp of reality.

    Worried about players coming to TO? WIN.

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    Mike and Mike are typical Americans. Americans are the most self centered society that I've ever seen. THats why their society is crumbling from their short sighteness. When your world is bigger then everyone elses world you have become so egotisitical that you can`t see reality. The reality is this world is a big place and that the raptors are highly profitable. Only someone so stupid as mike and mike would recommend moving one of the most profitable franchises in the NBA. Stupid is as stupid does is becoming AMerica`s MOTTO

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    winning fixes everything. but,in order to win you need good players... or young,athletic players.

    as for american's not wanting to play here and crap because they think it's a frozen wasteland all the time. I just have to say

    STFU! shit, i mean the olympics proved were not a wasteland but in some ways did prove we are the frozen part. like shiot we need to hold some internationally televised event in the SUMMER to help educate our friends.

    although, I must admit that i think it will help that there are cfl games on the nfl network in the u.s. I mean help educate these people then we know that they actually really are stupid or just plain ignorant.

    it's biloni, i don't understand how you can say it's foreign, different then america. i mean sure we are just a slimmer,less populkated version of you. Hell, we need to do something that makes american's jealous something we have that they don't(besides using full capacity of our brains).

    In conlusion, the nab doesn't need t ask itself if it wants to be in toronto. but rather Toronto needs to ask itself if it wants to be in the nba.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    winning fixes everything. but,in order to win you need good players... or young,athletic players.

    as for american's not wanting to play here and crap because they think it's a frozen wasteland all the time. I just have to say

    STFU! shit, i mean the olympics proved were not a wasteland but in some ways did prove we are the frozen part. like shiot we need to hold some internationally televised event in the SUMMER to help educate our friends.

    although, I must admit that i think it will help that there are cfl games on the nfl network in the u.s. I mean help educate these people then we know that they actually really are stupid or just plain ignorant.

    it's biloni, i don't understand how you can say it's foreign, different then america. i mean sure we are just a slimmer,less populkated version of you. Hell, we need to do something that makes american's jealous something we have that they don't(besides using full capacity of our brains).

    In conlusion, the nab doesn't need t ask itself if it wants to be in toronto. but rather Toronto needs to ask itself if it wants to be in the nba.
    maybe some one should send Mike & Mike or Cnn or who ever a video of caribana festivities in T.O, every american that celebrates it loves the city & most come every year.
    mabye would help show americans that were not a bunch of french eskimo's living in igloo's all year LOL
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 08:32 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Mush wrote: View Post
    Not sure about the rules of relocating a team but wasn't the thing in Seattle because the owners wanted to move?
    I think we should start worrying if MLSE ever sell the Raps to an American, but as long as they keep making money for the good ol' Teachers Pension I can't see that happening.
    just looked it up and ya your right it was the owners that wanted to move. bad example on my part i guess.

    MLSE is always looking to make a profit though. this has helped us keep the team here because it was very profitable.

    if it becomes more profitable to sell then i have no faith in MLSE to not go after the profit :-(

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The prejudices the Raptors have to deal with are because of the American public voices who don't spend the time researching and thinking things through. Instead they phone it in with their prejudices. People(current and future players, agents, coaches and management) then pick that up and read it, take it as fact and so the cycle continues.
    Source: "Aron Phillips Of DimeMag.com Sounds Prejudice Against Non-American Players", Raptors Republic Forums

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    Well I now have a ton of respect for Eric Smith, kudos sir for pointing out the obvious.

    I understand the misgivings American players might have, but only limited. Impressions make up for a lot, I'd say if you didn't live here you could be subject to a few, after spending a bit of time I'd find it hard to complain about Toronto vs other cities like Salt Lake City (I've been...it's weird).

    Mike and Mike are idiots and I try not to listen to them.

    Thank god we only get FAN590

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    Most Americans are taught from their birth that they are the greatest nation on the planet. Anyone who would choose to live in Canada or any other country must be unpatriotic or worse. As far as athletes playing in Toronto it is looked at as a sacrifice that some players have to make. It couldn't be a preference of an American if given the choice of playing for an NBA team in the USA. There are lots of Americans who love coming to Toronto to visit but there aren't many like Matt Bonner who publicly state they would prefer to play here over anyplace else.

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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Most Americans are taught from their birth that they are the greatest nation on the planet. Anyone who would choose to live in Canada or any other country must be unpatriotic or worse. As far as athletes playing in Toronto it is looked at as a sacrifice that some players have to make. It couldn't be a preference of an American if given the choice of playing for an NBA team in the USA. There are lots of Americans who love coming to Toronto to visit but there aren't many like Matt Bonner who publicly state they would prefer to play here over anyplace else.
    The pride won't be there in a few years if their economy continues to head to what I feel is now inevitable...

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    The raptors have a great attendance number, and they arent the worse team. The nba cant move the team because there are many other teams that are worse then us in an economic and standing wise. It would be unethical to move the bad canadian tean (which has the nba's best connection with europe) and not move terrible american team (timberwolves, nets, golden state, kings all of which were low on the standings, and in attendance, bottom 5 for both)

    If the raptors get moved, the nba would be sued for ratial motivation's, as crazy as that might sound, it is true.

    The nba will not move the raptors until we are bad, and low attendance, and no euro players. They cant get rid of us now, but if M@M were right, they will jump on the next failed season to do so.

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    Just another bunch of hacks on over-rated ESPN. If what those sub-intelligent clowns said was true, the Blue Jays would not have won championships in the early 90s. That good organization attracted the biggest stars in the game, even after the winning years were over. (Roger Clemens.)

    Honestly, ESPN has dropped several notches in the credibility department, especially after the Decision fiasco - a credible news organization does not air an infomercial in prime time - but ESPN did. And is no one asking Mike and Mike if Milwaukee, Minnesota, New Jersey, CLippers, etc deserve to be in the league? Are not all those empty seats and piped in crowd sounds embarrassing to the league? Perhaps New York is a hinterland as they failed to sign a real star - Stoudamire does not count as he will not help that team.

    Deafheaven had a great post earlier. I have to add - I posted the link to the Miami Herald Blog and added a few comments there. What did not help was the idiot who posted a childish anti-American rant which was logically followed by anti-Canadian name calling. When you have no facts, you have to revert to name calling and you have lost the battle. Last thing we need is people absent of facts leading to a bunch of Miami readers thinking 'see - we told them and they are sore losers.'

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    This whole stars don't want to play here angle is a self fulfilling prophecy that gets perpetuated by the very media that questions its validity. The raptors get good crowds during a losing season when the product itself isn't exciting. Miami can't even sell out playoff games with one of the best player's in the league. The TV ratings could be higher, but its a hockey town where curling ratings blows almost everyone else out of the water. The problem is the losing culture of the organization, not a deliberate unwillingness of stars to play here.

    The only relevant argument that can be made is the fact that Toronto has not been a viable destination for potential free agents over the past 15 years, but I'd argue that is a blessing in disguise as over the past 15 years I can count on one hand the number of star free agents (Shaq, Nash, Bron, Bosh) that sought out greener pastures and potentially advanced thier careers. The raptors draft stars and usually get at least 7 years out of them, no star has ever left and won anything and as far as I can remember the best player who refused to play here was Kenny Anderson.

    The knicks are in New York, the self proclaimed Mecca and they have won less games over the last 15 years than the raptors. Organizations are the reason that stars don't want to play in certain locations and unfortunately the raptors reputation as a whole has done far worse damage than the cold weather and high taxes could ever do.

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    According to Forbes the Raptors are the 11th most valuabe franchise, ahead of places like Miami (this should change) and Orlando. Also, behind Cleveland which will definetly change. Plus, they've made money almost every year. It's baseball and the CFL that's in trouble in Toronto, not the other sports

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    To quote E. Smith,

    "As Iíve said 1,000,000 times, post-season success (or lack there of) is the reason that the organization is not top-of-mind for many free agents or ístarsí around the NBA. Five playoff appearances in 15 years and only 1 second-round berth Ö THATíS the issue. And thatís a fact.

    Everything else is drivel."

    I just want to commend him for testifying to the value of thing like [I]research[I] and [I]reality[I] when it comes to journalism. Everything beyond the reality of Toronto's NBA success is drivel, regardless of whether it's the journalists or the players themselves who believe otherwise. Any other conjecture regarding the "difficulties" that are associated with playing fora Canadian basketball team is ignorance, and seems typical of those in the U.S.A. who attempt to portray anybody outside of their borders as "the others" despite the social, cultural, or geographical realities.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote noxleno wrote: View Post
    To quote E. Smith,

    "As I’ve said 1,000,000 times, post-season success (or lack there of) is the reason that the organization is not top-of-mind for many free agents or ’stars’ around the NBA. Five playoff appearances in 15 years and only 1 second-round berth … THAT’S the issue. And that’s a fact.

    Everything else is drivel."

    I just want to commend him for testifying to the value of thing like [I]research[I] and [I]reality[I] when it comes to journalism. Everything beyond the reality of Toronto's NBA success is drivel, regardless of whether it's the journalists or the players themselves who believe otherwise. Any other conjecture regarding the "difficulties" that are associated with playing fora Canadian basketball team is ignorance, and seems typical of those in the U.S.A. who attempt to portray anybody outside of their borders as "the others" despite the social, cultural, or geographical realities.
    i agree

    too many americans are soo quick to judge a place by a few miss informed comments rather then spend some time to learn about it before judging.

    for a country that is supposed to be a leader of the free world they sure have a lot of followers LOL

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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    According to Forbes the Raptors are the 11th most valuabe franchise, ahead of places like Miami (this should change) and Orlando. Also, behind Cleveland which will definetly change. Plus, they've made money almost every year. It's baseball and the CFL that's in trouble in Toronto, not the other sports
    Unfortunately, when free-agents are picking teams they're not reading Forbes magazine, they're looking at the product on the court.

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