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Thread: ESPN: The NBA Needs to Ask Itself If It Wants To Be In Toronto

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default ESPN: The NBA Needs to Ask Itself If It Wants To Be In Toronto

    This comes from the FAN590 via ESPN's "Mike and Mike in the Morning" show.

    So Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic were on ďMike and Mike in the MorningĒ on ESPN radio earlier today and they had some interesting (although uninformed) comments about the city of Toronto and whether or not this is still a viable market for the NBA.

    While both hosts admitted that they love the city overall - and enjoy visiting - they said they donít believe that any star wants to come here and that Americans donít want to live in Canada. Iím paraphrasing, but those are the basic nuts and bolts of their statements.

    If, as Mike and Mike suggest, the NBA needs to ask itself if it wants to be in Toronto Ö perhaps the Raptors attendance figures should be researched. Take a look at where this team is in those rankings year after year. Not only are the Raps in the upper HALF almost every year, theyíve frequently been in the top 10 in attendance rankings since they came into the league 15 years ago. And while many local media outlets (in Toronto and Canada) choose to ignore this fact, the Raptors local television rankings are among the best in the entire league. I saw a report last year that had Torontoís TV ratings behind only the Lakers and Cavaliers local numbers.
    Source - Click here

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    this bothers me alot.

    this is why i feel we cant just tank for the next few years, even though we have good attendence & tv rating these vultures down south are looking for any reason to justify moving raptors to Las Vegas or some other market.

    everytime i think about just stock piling lottery drafted players for the next few years im reminded of what happened to Seattle, they got what they wanted, durrant & bunch of other quality players through the draft then had to watch them win in another city!

    these guys mike & mike are tools but if were not carefull it might happen some day

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The prejudices the Raptors have to deal with are because of the American public voices who don't spend the time researching and thinking things through. Instead they phone it in with their prejudices. People(current and future players, agents, coaches and management) then pick that up and read it, take it as fact and so the cycle continues.
    Source: "Aron Phillips Of DimeMag.com Sounds Prejudice Against Non-American Players", Raptors Republic Forums

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    Raptors Republic Rookie pillowmint's Avatar
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    Well I now have a ton of respect for Eric Smith, kudos sir for pointing out the obvious.

    I understand the misgivings American players might have, but only limited. Impressions make up for a lot, I'd say if you didn't live here you could be subject to a few, after spending a bit of time I'd find it hard to complain about Toronto vs other cities like Salt Lake City (I've been...it's weird).

    Mike and Mike are idiots and I try not to listen to them.

    Thank god we only get FAN590

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    This whole stars don't want to play here angle is a self fulfilling prophecy that gets perpetuated by the very media that questions its validity. The raptors get good crowds during a losing season when the product itself isn't exciting. Miami can't even sell out playoff games with one of the best player's in the league. The TV ratings could be higher, but its a hockey town where curling ratings blows almost everyone else out of the water. The problem is the losing culture of the organization, not a deliberate unwillingness of stars to play here.

    The only relevant argument that can be made is the fact that Toronto has not been a viable destination for potential free agents over the past 15 years, but I'd argue that is a blessing in disguise as over the past 15 years I can count on one hand the number of star free agents (Shaq, Nash, Bron, Bosh) that sought out greener pastures and potentially advanced thier careers. The raptors draft stars and usually get at least 7 years out of them, no star has ever left and won anything and as far as I can remember the best player who refused to play here was Kenny Anderson.

    The knicks are in New York, the self proclaimed Mecca and they have won less games over the last 15 years than the raptors. Organizations are the reason that stars don't want to play in certain locations and unfortunately the raptors reputation as a whole has done far worse damage than the cold weather and high taxes could ever do.

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    this bothers me alot.

    this is why i feel we cant just tank for the next few years, even though we have good attendence & tv rating these vultures down south are looking for any reason to justify moving raptors to Las Vegas or some other market.

    everytime i think about just stock piling lottery drafted players for the next few years im reminded of what happened to Seattle, they got what they wanted, durrant & bunch of other quality players through the draft then had to watch them win in another city!

    these guys mike & mike are tools but if were not carefull it might happen some day
    Not sure about the rules of relocating a team but wasn't the thing in Seattle because the owners wanted to move?
    I think we should start worrying if MLSE ever sell the Raps to an American, but as long as they keep making money for the good ol' Teachers Pension I can't see that happening.

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    According to Forbes the Raptors are the 11th most valuabe franchise, ahead of places like Miami (this should change) and Orlando. Also, behind Cleveland which will definetly change. Plus, they've made money almost every year. It's baseball and the CFL that's in trouble in Toronto, not the other sports

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    Quote Mush wrote: View Post
    Not sure about the rules of relocating a team but wasn't the thing in Seattle because the owners wanted to move?
    I think we should start worrying if MLSE ever sell the Raps to an American, but as long as they keep making money for the good ol' Teachers Pension I can't see that happening.
    As I understood it, the arena was too old, small (because the owner didn't want it to be big enough for the NHL) so they needed a new arena and the city/state didn't want to pich in the money.

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    Most Americans are taught from their birth that they are the greatest nation on the planet. Anyone who would choose to live in Canada or any other country must be unpatriotic or worse. As far as athletes playing in Toronto it is looked at as a sacrifice that some players have to make. It couldn't be a preference of an American if given the choice of playing for an NBA team in the USA. There are lots of Americans who love coming to Toronto to visit but there aren't many like Matt Bonner who publicly state they would prefer to play here over anyplace else.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Mush wrote: View Post
    Not sure about the rules of relocating a team but wasn't the thing in Seattle because the owners wanted to move?
    I think we should start worrying if MLSE ever sell the Raps to an American, but as long as they keep making money for the good ol' Teachers Pension I can't see that happening.
    just looked it up and ya your right it was the owners that wanted to move. bad example on my part i guess.

    MLSE is always looking to make a profit though. this has helped us keep the team here because it was very profitable.

    if it becomes more profitable to sell then i have no faith in MLSE to not go after the profit :-(

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    Raptors Republic Rookie noxleno's Avatar
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    To quote E. Smith,

    "As Iíve said 1,000,000 times, post-season success (or lack there of) is the reason that the organization is not top-of-mind for many free agents or ístarsí around the NBA. Five playoff appearances in 15 years and only 1 second-round berth Ö THATíS the issue. And thatís a fact.

    Everything else is drivel."

    I just want to commend him for testifying to the value of thing like [I]research[I] and [I]reality[I] when it comes to journalism. Everything beyond the reality of Toronto's NBA success is drivel, regardless of whether it's the journalists or the players themselves who believe otherwise. Any other conjecture regarding the "difficulties" that are associated with playing fora Canadian basketball team is ignorance, and seems typical of those in the U.S.A. who attempt to portray anybody outside of their borders as "the others" despite the social, cultural, or geographical realities.

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    Default Chill

    This sounds like sports radio at its worst. First of all the decision is not the NBA's but MLSE's and they seem to be making money in the enterprise. If MLSE's goal was nothing more than booking a few more dates in the barn they've done well from a business perspective. An entirely moot point from ESPN's perspective and more reason to ignore them entirely. The NBA would not contract and outside of Seattle and maybe Las Vegas is there a city that would be more attractive for the players AND be profitable? There are too many wobbly franchises in the US to cast a jaundiced eye at TO. Mike and Mike have little grasp of reality.

    Worried about players coming to TO? WIN.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote noxleno wrote: View Post
    To quote E. Smith,

    "As I’ve said 1,000,000 times, post-season success (or lack there of) is the reason that the organization is not top-of-mind for many free agents or ’stars’ around the NBA. Five playoff appearances in 15 years and only 1 second-round berth … THAT’S the issue. And that’s a fact.

    Everything else is drivel."

    I just want to commend him for testifying to the value of thing like [I]research[I] and [I]reality[I] when it comes to journalism. Everything beyond the reality of Toronto's NBA success is drivel, regardless of whether it's the journalists or the players themselves who believe otherwise. Any other conjecture regarding the "difficulties" that are associated with playing fora Canadian basketball team is ignorance, and seems typical of those in the U.S.A. who attempt to portray anybody outside of their borders as "the others" despite the social, cultural, or geographical realities.
    i agree

    too many americans are soo quick to judge a place by a few miss informed comments rather then spend some time to learn about it before judging.

    for a country that is supposed to be a leader of the free world they sure have a lot of followers LOL

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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Most Americans are taught from their birth that they are the greatest nation on the planet. Anyone who would choose to live in Canada or any other country must be unpatriotic or worse. As far as athletes playing in Toronto it is looked at as a sacrifice that some players have to make. It couldn't be a preference of an American if given the choice of playing for an NBA team in the USA. There are lots of Americans who love coming to Toronto to visit but there aren't many like Matt Bonner who publicly state they would prefer to play here over anyplace else.
    The pride won't be there in a few years if their economy continues to head to what I feel is now inevitable...

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    Mike & Mike can go down on themselves all they want but there is one inescapable factoid in the business world (and professional sports is a business as well I keep hearing)...is that if the business is making money then its not going anywhere. Case closed. There is one other caveat...relocate where?? Kansas City? Seattle? (actually maybe...with a couple of buts), Connecticut? "Hotbeds" of the nba like Atlanta and Miami were pretty dicey last year attendance wise inspite of their obvious basketball assets (Amrican players who "want" to be there). Yes, Miami will sell out this year but at what cost? and for how long until the team gets stale or have a hiccup. The same reasons these guys went there are the reasons the team typically has trouble selling their seats historically...the beach, sun and bikinis. The Mikeys should check out the value Forbes puts on the Raptors to see if the Pension Fund is ready to bail.

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    BIGGEST reasons we are NOT a Championship Caliber Team:

    1. We are controlled by the votes of MLSE!
    *If* we had a RICH owner willing to SPEND $$$ on building his DreamTeam, we could be competitive. BUT MLSE historically stay near the cap. This is an Investment. Not a NBA team.

    2. USA was very establish with developing NBA teams when Canada decide to join the League. Europe & Canada had to change court size & rules just so they could learn the NBA. Name one College or University in Canada know for their First Class Basketball camp? It starts at the grass roots. We are still playing catch up on this one!

    2. Toronto Media- They put our Players on a Pedestal or in the Gutter base on a handful of games. Don't spoon feed our players. Let them prove their worth with HardWork *instead* of a FreePass.

    3. Bonner is Right! We need stability in management. A company's attitude is always reflected from the Top Down. Toronto management changes quicker then USA approval on Obama.

    4. Canada??? Surprising when you travel to BIG cities in Europe & USA you can find serious party spots with the scene always FRESH with the times. Canada is a little behind BUT....

    Canada IS having it's COMING OUT PARTY right NOW. We are getting recognition right now! Hopefully we can make the BEST of this World Stage we on now and develop a Improved image for Canada. Our *Talented* youth leaves in search of Opportunity. Well in Canada Opportunity is Knockin' right now! We have to offer more in Canada so we can hold on to our youth and develop it in all AREAS of Sports, Business, Medician & Politics.

    Oh by the way... I AM CANADIAN! We in Canada have some of the BEST opportunities in the WORLD right now! You just have to grab the bull by the horns and GO!

    Canadians have a VERY open mind. Our heritage is made up of Immigrants and we don't pretend to deny it and cover it up like the USA. Everyones Great, Great, Great, Great Grandfather in the USA was an immigrant! (Except Native Americans)

    Oh Canada, *I* Stand on Guard for Thee!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    Toronto has nothing to do with these players leaving, its the current generations thinking and the need for instant gratification. The winter in toronto is not any different than in New york so I dont want to hear that excuse. I honestly and truly think the people in this city are too down to earth and these guys need cameras and women in their face constantly for them to feel special. stars come through toronto on a regular bases its not a big deal for us and I think they hate that.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dr Hannibal Lecter's Avatar
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    Default Morons:::

    This is why these 2 clowns should be fired for idiocity...do ure research before stating something dumb.
    Raptors for existence have been having problems keeping so called franchise players....why this team never build there franchise the right way until now...u need talented players.
    Attendance raptors is the best in nba and not only that games localy are most viewed 2 only cleveland(which wont be anymore) and Lakers.
    If this franchise does it right way and builds a contender there won't be any issues.
    Winning solves everything.

    P.S

    I'm soooo sick of this garbage...FFFF Usa..every time when I'm crossing board from States 2 Canada..it's like hell 2 heaven...
    I would never want live in USA,I'll use famous quote from bosh,it smells different..bc USA STINKS!!!

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    This is utter nonsense. The fact we waste our time proving our worth to these players is a joke. Americans are ignorant - plain and simple. Substitute Canada for any other country. Watch some Jay Leno bits on youtube - they don't even know anything about their own country let alone any other.

    VC was weak mentally and physically but before he became a puss-bag the Raps lead off the highlights on ESPN every night to see what he did next. He was also the top vote getter in the All-Star Game.

    Get a winning and exciting team and the B.S. will stop.

    The problem with the Raps has been their drafting since 2003. You get a Iguodala or Granger instead of Rafael or Graham or you get the #1 with a true future franchise player (no offense to Bargs) or luck out with a second round steal (Ellis, Boozer, etc.) or Garbo doesn't blow out his ankle and we are probably not having this discussion.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    i think that there are plenty of women & camera's in T.O so whats that got to do with anything?

    the problem is people listen to what others say about canada & think its all bad

    like what bosh said " the air smells different" or " it just feels different"

    people take that as a bad thing in the USA

    but the truth is

    the air does smell different. (canadian air smells cleaner)

    the country/city is different ( people here are less uptight & less rude & more respectfull of celebs privacy)

    the vast majority around the world would say that being different than the USA can be a good thing

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