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Thread: ESPN: The NBA Needs to Ask Itself If It Wants To Be In Toronto

  1. #21
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote PapiJulio wrote: View Post
    BIGGEST reasons we are NOT a Championship Caliber Team:

    1. We are controlled by the votes of MLSE!
    *If* we had a RICH owner willing to SPEND $$$ on building his DreamTeam, we could be competitive. BUT MLSE historically stay near the cap. This is an Investment. Not a NBA team.
    That's not true. During the Carter era where they re-signed Davis, JYD, Alvin Williams, Carter signed an extension and they signed Hakeem "The Dream". Then they had one of the biggest cap numbers in the league.

    Yes, a single owner can be good because of what you said but on the flip side there are just as many of them out there who aren't willing to spend like drunken sailors because to them it's only about making money.

  2. #22
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    Default Morons

    Those guys are morons anyway. They would not know a world class city if they owned it.
    Let them go on a tour of their favorite American NBA towns to see games at half price or less with crowds just slightly bigger than WNBA games if thy wish ( God knows there are many). Toronto is not only a great city, but a great sports town. The basketball issue is trying to build around egotistical players that could care less about their teams, teamates, or city. That's why they're spewing garbage. They come up with this crap because our so called star went so to be a bitch on a winning team and said our city smells different. Yeah it probably smells alot different without as much descrimination against minorities, and gangs and murders. It smells just fine to meand actually smells alot better now that Miami's new bitch left town.

  3. #23
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    According to Forbes the Raptors are the 11th most valuabe franchise, ahead of places like Miami (this should change) and Orlando. Also, behind Cleveland which will definetly change. Plus, they've made money almost every year. It's baseball and the CFL that's in trouble in Toronto, not the other sports
    Unfortunately, when free-agents are picking teams they're not reading Forbes magazine, they're looking at the product on the court.

  4. #24
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    I like Mike and Mike. Find them entertaining. They are of course wrong though but let's remember... they are NOT journalists. They are just talking heads. Moreover, they are American talking heads speaking to, for the most part, an American audience.

    As I read this forum (and others), what I notice is the distinct lack of maturity. Everyone who does not agree with your point of view is an idiot or a moron or whatever. The constructive thing to do would be to send Mike and Mike an email and constructively give them some things to think about.

    Look, you can't say Bosh didn't give it his all here. He gave it a fair chance. Toronto is not for him. Whatever. Let's all move on (as he surely has). But maybe you should appreciate someone like Jose Calderon just a little more instead of doing your best to drive him out of town. Discussing whether or not his salary is proportionate to his production is one thing or whether JJ is a better choice to quarterback this team (not in my opinion) but the lack of respect shown, the use of belittling words, the callous insults, is another. Same goes for Bargnani. I can't imagine why either of those players would want to stay in Toronto. They must be smart enough to stay away from the net. As with the DECISION fiasco, it's all about how you do things.

    As a Canadian who does NOT live in a large market, perhaps I have a different perspective. Plus, at 48, hopefully some level of maturity but I have to tell you that reading these forums is somewhat of a chore. And I know it's not just Toronto. I often listen to Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver sports radio stations and they are all pretty much clones of each other.

    All I'm saying is to show your cities athletes some respect, regardless of record. And if you don't, well... don't freak out when they choose to leave. There are some legitimate reasons to hate (HWSNBN and Turkoglu for example) but those examples are few and far between.

    rant over

    now I'll just sit back and wait for Raptors fans to run Calderon, Bargnani and perhaps even Colangelo out of town. Then put the spotlight on Derozan and call him a bust because he's not HWSNBN.

  5. #25
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    Toronto is a good city for the NBA (as is Vancouver) they just need a better front office and head coach to make player personnel decisions. This International player/US experiment mix team is the downfall of Raptor basketball and is an insult to TO basketball fans intelligence just like BC hiring Jay Triano as 1st Canadian NBA head coach- good pr but no on court results, instead of bringing in a proven NBA coach to lead the team. Should have never fired Sam so soon at 8-9 (Jay finished up at 25-40) as Jay has done no better even though he had a more talented roster last season than Sam ever had in TO under BC.

    It's all mostly hype and very little substance w/ BC in TO.

  6. #26
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    Mike and Mike are typical Americans. Americans are the most self centered society that I've ever seen. THats why their society is crumbling from their short sighteness. When your world is bigger then everyone elses world you have become so egotisitical that you can`t see reality. The reality is this world is a big place and that the raptors are highly profitable. Only someone so stupid as mike and mike would recommend moving one of the most profitable franchises in the NBA. Stupid is as stupid does is becoming AMerica`s MOTTO

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    winning fixes everything. but,in order to win you need good players... or young,athletic players.

    as for american's not wanting to play here and crap because they think it's a frozen wasteland all the time. I just have to say

    STFU! shit, i mean the olympics proved were not a wasteland but in some ways did prove we are the frozen part. like shiot we need to hold some internationally televised event in the SUMMER to help educate our friends.

    although, I must admit that i think it will help that there are cfl games on the nfl network in the u.s. I mean help educate these people then we know that they actually really are stupid or just plain ignorant.

    it's biloni, i don't understand how you can say it's foreign, different then america. i mean sure we are just a slimmer,less populkated version of you. Hell, we need to do something that makes american's jealous something we have that they don't(besides using full capacity of our brains).

    In conlusion, the nab doesn't need t ask itself if it wants to be in toronto. but rather Toronto needs to ask itself if it wants to be in the nba.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    winning fixes everything. but,in order to win you need good players... or young,athletic players.

    as for american's not wanting to play here and crap because they think it's a frozen wasteland all the time. I just have to say

    STFU! shit, i mean the olympics proved were not a wasteland but in some ways did prove we are the frozen part. like shiot we need to hold some internationally televised event in the SUMMER to help educate our friends.

    although, I must admit that i think it will help that there are cfl games on the nfl network in the u.s. I mean help educate these people then we know that they actually really are stupid or just plain ignorant.

    it's biloni, i don't understand how you can say it's foreign, different then america. i mean sure we are just a slimmer,less populkated version of you. Hell, we need to do something that makes american's jealous something we have that they don't(besides using full capacity of our brains).

    In conlusion, the nab doesn't need t ask itself if it wants to be in toronto. but rather Toronto needs to ask itself if it wants to be in the nba.
    maybe some one should send Mike & Mike or Cnn or who ever a video of caribana festivities in T.O, every american that celebrates it loves the city & most come every year.
    mabye would help show americans that were not a bunch of french eskimo's living in igloo's all year LOL
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 08:32 PM.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    It has nothing to do with any of that. It boils down to one thing: Winning.

    You think Utah has a hard time getting top flight guys and keeping them? Have any of you been to Salt Lake City? It's boring as shit there. San Antonio is small. The riverwalk is nice and all, but there's nothing to do there. Same with Phoenix. You know why players like to go there? Because they WIN.

    Everyone should stop having a chip on their shoulder. If the Raps were in the playoffs year in and out, you'd always have guys wanting to play here.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    It has nothing to do with any of that. It boils down to one thing: Winning.

    You think Utah has a hard time getting top flight guys and keeping them? Have any of you been to Salt Lake City? It's boring as shit there. San Antonio is small. The riverwalk is nice and all, but there's nothing to do there. Same with Phoenix. You know why players like to go there? Because they WIN.

    Everyone should stop having a chip on their shoulder. If the Raps were in the playoffs year in and out, you'd always have guys wanting to play here.
    its like what came first the chicken or the egg dilema.

    you need players to win.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    you know what else is a big problem when you have 0 players from your own damn country on your roster!!!!!!

    and the greatest player of all time from your country plays in the desert and the one from the other sport lives in the desert. I mean, no wonder they think we are a frekin frozen wasteland. honestly, i could easily fix us up and make us a winning frnachise i'd start by bringing in PLAYERS FROM OUR OWN MOTHER FUCKING COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    sorry for swearing, btu i mean holy J.C.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    its like what came first the chicken or the egg dilema.

    you need players to win.
    You can draft guys and overpay guys to come here to try to create a winning team. Are you insinuating that you NEED a team chock full of Americans to win?

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    you know what else is a big problem when you have 0 players from your own damn country on your roster!!!!!!

    and the greatest player of all time from your country plays in the desert and the one from the other sport lives in the desert. I mean, no wonder they think we are a frekin frozen wasteland. honestly, i could easily fix us up and make us a winning frnachise i'd start by bringing in PLAYERS FROM OUR OWN MOTHER FUCKING COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    sorry for swearing, btu i mean holy J.C.
    im not sure that would be the best choice in every case but having Nash,Joel Anthony,Samual Dalembert on our team would make us better then we are now for sure.

  14. #34
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    you know what else is a big problem when you have 0 players from your own damn country on your roster!!!!!!

    and the greatest player of all time from your country plays in the desert and the one from the other sport lives in the desert. I mean, no wonder they think we are a frekin frozen wasteland. honestly, i could easily fix us up and make us a winning frnachise i'd start by bringing in PLAYERS FROM OUR OWN MOTHER FUCKING COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    sorry for swearing, btu i mean holy J.C.
    The Suns would want a fortune for Nash - even with him being close to retirement.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    You can draft guys and overpay guys to come here to try to create a winning team. Are you insinuating that you NEED a team chock full of Americans to win?
    i couldnt care less were they came from or what color there skin is, all i do care about is talent, toughness & desire to compete & win every night.

  16. #36
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Guys,

    Bosh, Carter, McGrady and Stoudamire all had something in common. All of them had major character flaws. Bosh's flaw is the need for attention and insecurity. Carter's was toughness and desire. McGrady's was ego and professionalism. Stoudamire's was immaturity. None of these guy's were fit to be the leader of a team. Not retaining them as keystones in not the end of the world. They weren't taking the team anywhere. Beyond them let's look at some guys who wanted no part of Toronto or wanted out:

    - Alonzo Mourning: Wanted to compete for a championship. Not a chance at the time in Toronto.
    - Lamond Murray: A cancer in the locker room. His ego was far bigger than his game. They wasted a 1st rounder on him. I don't think he would have been happy anywhere.
    - Eric Williams: Didn't get the PT he wanted. Wasn't happy about moving away from Jersey and would not uproot his family.
    - Antonio Davis: He didn't like the school system. He was scared of the metric system. I think he also complained about the taxes...

    There are a few more but I'll stop there. I think winning would fix a lot. I think if the American media were more responsible that would help too. Beyond that most of those with problems who have come and actually played in Toronto had issues with the team, not the city or the country or the culture. Once they get here they can be educated, when we're talking about developing from within. I also think they should not pursue guys who will only come to Toronto if the Raptors pay a large premium. That alone should tell you they're not showing up for the right reasons.

    I think the key always has been and always will be bringing the right characters to town. Not all stars feel compelled to be in a big American market... And to Chris Bosh, for a place that doesn't get much covered there sure are a lot of American media outlets writing a lot about the Raptors. Maybe if he brought the same stuff to the table as Wade or James he would get the same attention on his own and wouldn't need to get in their spot lights.
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 03:55 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    i couldnt care less were they came from or what color there skin is, all i do care about is talent, toughness & desire to compete & win every night.
    Exactly. So how is it a chicken before the egg dilemna? They can be European, South American, African..or drafted. BC just needs to get his shit together, hire a proper coach and find the right mix of players.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Exactly. So how is it a chicken before the egg dilemna? They can be European, South American, African..or drafted. BC just needs to get his shit together, hire a proper coach and find the right mix of players.

    read back

    i was refering to your comment about winning will make players want to come here, but u need players to win!!

    read twice comment once!! LOL

  19. #39
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    read back

    i was refering to your comment about winning will make players want to come here, but u need players to win!!

    read twice comment once!! LOL
    I already commented on that. I said that with a mix of drafted players and overpaid FAs (and with some creative trades..add on) you might be able to create winning team. Do you think it's automatically gonna happen, us becoming a winning team? It takes some time.

    Maybe you should heed to your own advice, friend.

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    The actual problem is that Toronto isn`t a small market. So when you become the franchise player in Toronto you actually get more attention then you deserve. Toronto has a lot of media and because Toronto is the only foreign team in the NBA people always recognize the franchise player on Toronto. THats why every Raptor star was OVERRATED. So the raptors franchise players get big ego`s and feel they`re short done by playing in Canada. Not suprising is that almost every raptor franchise player was a failure outside of Canada.

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