View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #8341
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Bucks have Ilyasova shooting 43% from 3pt and he rebounds.

    All the 'informed' journalists/analysts claim the Bucks are willing to move anyone and it is known the Raptors/Colangelo have coveted Ilyasova. Not sure how the Raptors can make a deal with the Bucks without including DeRozan.

    BTW, I do love your thinking here. Henson would be awesome. Picks would be awesome. Shedding salary would be good.
    Illyasova would be nice as well, but both his contract and his usage wouldnt fit the team as well as a promising rookie and an expiring contract would. Besides, he really struggled (Bargnani-level struggled) earlier this season and that scares me.

    I would really like to plug in all the loose ends on the team right now, and I think we should focus on having a solid foundational cast around our current potentials (Val/Ross/Amir) and players (Derozan/Gay/Lowry). I want Bargnani's value to be diffused over several holes, including capspace, draft picks, and solid role players.

    This is why I have decided to go against supporting an expensive, high-usage, older, player. I was into Boozer earlier, but have changed my mind, seeing many other potential routes as much more beneficial to the raptors, present and future.
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  2. #8342
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Illyasova would be nice as well, but both his contract and his usage wouldnt fit the team as well as a promising rookie and an expiring contract would. Besides, he really struggled (Bargnani-level struggled) earlier this season and that scares me.

    I would really like to plug in all the loose ends on the team right now, and I think we should focus on having a solid foundational cast around our current potentials (Val/Ross/Amir) and players (Derozan/Gay/Lowry). I want Bargnani's value to be diffused over several holes, including capspace, draft picks, and solid role players.

    This is why I have decided to go against supporting an expensive, high-usage, older, player. I was into Boozer earlier, but have changed my mind, seeing many other potential routes as much more beneficial to the raptors, present and future.
    I like your thinking but I think you'd need to get a third team involved to work with Milwaukee and having Bargnani the key piece leaving Toronto.

    EDIT:
    Now if you take back Gooden, then suddenly maybe Henson/picks become available but it doesn't address the expiring contracts you mentioned.
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  3. #8343
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    Quote Dunk wrote: View Post
    Honestly I didn't think he played that great. I absolutely HATE when he leaves his man to go chase someone and attempt a double team. It always fails and they easily get it to his man for the easy bucket. The best part of his game last night was that he didn't shoot 20 times. #tradebargnani
    "I absolutely HATE when he leaves his man to go chase someone and attempt a double team."

    That's part of the defensive system that he's doing under instruction, not him taking random risks roaming freely like Lowry does.

    "It always fails and they easily get it to his man for the easy bucket."

    Always? Simply not true, but if you knew anything about the game, you'd know that many teams do that as part of their scheme, and accept that they'll get burned once in a while. That we have a 7 footer that's mobile enough to do that and not get burned too often (good rotations by other teammates helps).

  4. #8344
    Raptors Republic Superstar FoxMachine's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Very true, but once his contract is off the books, it's possible Lowry and Gay are gone by than. Depending on the future success of the Raptors as well, Toronto isn't a high destination for players to sign to, and that's where finance comes in. i.e. Rudy Gay trade. Having space or money willing to acquire these bigger contracts, in return for talented players. Boozer is almost in the same mold, but paying 2 players $16+ million, one player entering prime, one entering decline, it becomes unpredictable whether Boozer can continue major contributions. Not to mention 10$+ million for Demar Derozan next 4 years, & Kyle Lowry worth about the same if extended.

    Deals have to be able to help out short term (Ridnour - expiring contract, strengthen the guard position) and our long term (Williams, prospect player, if non-improving, move CHEAP contract for prospects/picks).

    Like I said, it's just my opinion bringing in a prospect forward/big and a veteran point guard to the team. I wouldn't be angry with Boozer as well, heck, he's a talent upgrade, but how much can we improve after acquiring Boozer? Whilst Williams can grow into a talented player being on a cheap contract, with Ridnour's $4 million expiring, allowing extra space for re-singing/deals.

    With the new CBA, finance is a huge part REGARDLESS of talent, look at Memphis who gave up - arguably - their best player (I'm darn happy we're the landing spot), and teams continuously looking to gain space i.e. Utah, Atlanta.
    Good points. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I don't like Williams and don't think he will be a good player in this league, a Beasley type player at BEST. just my opinion tho. Im also not huge on the boozer trade but if I had to choose, I would either keep bargs or go for boozer than take Williams.

    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    A lot of talent being shopped, and in my opinion, if we were going to pay max for another player, I'd rather have Milsap/Smith > Boozer any day of the week.

    Age, talent, and overall production on BOTH ends of the court are important. Smith and Milsap give that better than Boozer does at this point. Gotta think short-term, and long-term for this deal. Boozer with his contract is signed for long-term, but may not be the answer once the time comes.
    I would also much rather pay a guy like smith or milsap as well. I just find it hard to see smith willing to guarantee a long term future here, im sure there will be a lot of teams willing to pay max for him.

  5. #8345
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Every team hoping to contend for a title needs a big three. Toronto was always missing a true SF in the 7 years Bargnani was in tdot which forced him to play out of his role and try to create his own offence knowing there was nobody else there to take that pressure off him. Now that we finally have a true SF who can creat shots and take pressure off Derozan and Bargnani we should finally be able to see Bargnani flurish and dominate as a second or third option where he won't be the primary focus of other teams defence. We finally have an assemblance of a big three in Gay, Derozan and Bargnani let the good times rollllllll.

  6. #8346
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Good points. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I don't like Williams and don't think he will be a good player in this league, a Beasley type player at BEST. just my opinion tho. Im also not huge on the boozer trade but if I had to choose, I would either keep bargs or go for boozer than take Williams.
    We'll agree to disagree.

    I would also much rather pay a guy like smith or milsap as well. I just find it hard to see smith willing to guarantee a long term future here, im sure there will be a lot of teams willing to pay max for him.
    Well, it really depends, look at Harden. Ran from a championship caliber team to take 8$ million more dollars. Originally offered a 5 year, 40$ million contract to take a max contract, to a team that's still sort of rebuilding.

    There are a lot of teams actually willing to pay the max to Josh Smith, but there's really no separation from them to Toronto, because those teams willing to give up the cash, are among the same build/mold of Toronto. Building, mediocre record, etc.

  7. #8347
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    Quote northgrantballer wrote: View Post
    I can't help but to notice opinions forming by people who promised themselves they would not form them. When Bargnani was out, raptors nation basically had torches and pitchforks walking towards the seven footer, promising ourselves that when he came back to not be deceived by quality play, and to only let him increase his trade value. Now, after a couple games, people are returning to the more conservative-minded thoughts of "Oh well he is a valuable piece and we can't trade him now".

    Where do you guys stand on trading him now?
    forreal..

  8. #8348
    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    I will get him just in order to hear Matt Devlin say: "Alright we got Boozer Gay Johnson enter the game"

  9. #8349
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    Every team hoping to contend for a title needs a big three. Toronto was always missing a true SF in the 7 years Bargnani was in tdot which forced him to play out of his role and try to create his own offence knowing there was nobody else there to take that pressure off him. Now that we finally have a true SF who can creat shots and take pressure off Derozan and Bargnani we should finally be able to see Bargnani flurish and dominate as a second or third option where he won't be the primary focus of other teams defence. We finally have an assemblance of a big three in Gay, Derozan and Bargnani let the good times rollllllll.
    Let's not get carried away. The last thing he needs right now is to envision himself as some kind of elite player. He is the backup 4 whose role is to score 10-15 efficient points and be in sync defensively. The guy he's playing behind rebounds, plays defense, scores at an efficient clip and since the trade of ED has brought his play to a new level. Let Andrea settle into his 6th man role and see if he can make a positive contribution on a consistent basis.

  10. #8350
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    When everyone called for trading him over the past 2 months, the best case scenario would've been that he comes back and plays well to up his value. He's doing that now...so why not capitalize on it? Why wait another season to see if it works out and risk losing that value?

  11. #8351
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote nubreed000 wrote: View Post
    When everyone called for trading him over the past 2 months, the best case scenario would've been that he comes back and plays well to up his value. He's doing that now...so why not capitalize on it? Why wait another season to see if it works out and risk losing that value?
    +1

    Although I not sure HOW much he's raised his value as of now. IF there's a good deal on the table, aka shedding salary, getting young players/picks or a legit starting PF you trade bargs. NO QUESTION. However, I don't think you have to trade him because I do believe that as long as he's coming off the bench he can be an effective player, and a good trade might come in the off season or even next year. We aren't doing anything this year even if we trade bargs so I don't see the harm in letting him play the season out.

    Not sure I'm big on the boozer trade unless we are getting some good picks back.
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  12. #8352
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Bargnani still needs to be traded. If you thought Amir Johnson or Landry Fields was overpaid (at time of signing), then this guy breaks the barrier well and beyond.

    By the end of this season he will have stolen $48M from the Toronto Raptors, where his peak value comes from the 13 game mirage and now, a decent offensive big man off the bench. He'll be paid $11M next year to be such a bench player.

    The moment there is an opportunity to trade for a starter, he has to go.
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  13. #8353
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Bargnani still needs to be traded. If you thought Amir Johnson or Landry Fields was overpaid (at time of signing), then this guy breaks the barrier well and beyond.

    By the end of this season he will have stolen $48M from the Toronto Raptors, where his peak value comes from the 13 game mirage and now, a decent offensive big man off the bench. He'll be paid $11M next year to be such a bench player.

    The moment there is an opportunity to trade for a starter, he has to go.
    +1
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  14. #8354
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    +1

    Although I not sure HOW much he's raised his value as of now. IF there's a good deal on the table, aka shedding salary, getting young players/picks or a legit starting PF you trade bargs. NO QUESTION. However, I don't think you have to trade him because I do believe that as long as he's coming off the bench he can be an effective player, and a good trade might come in the off season or even next year. We aren't doing anything this year even if we trade bargs so I don't see the harm in letting him play the season out.

    Not sure I'm big on the boozer trade unless we are getting some good picks back.
    Agreed no need to trade him unless a good deal presents itself. As a second or third option he can be a lethal weapon.

  15. #8355
    Raptors Republic Rookie CDashQ's Avatar
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    Quote pcrombeen wrote: View Post
    Bargnani's gotta go. Two decent shooting games do not negate the previous 7 years.

    Here's a trade I would love:

    Utah: Bargnani, Derozan
    Toronto: Milsap, Mo Williams

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

    Utah might do this trade if they don't want to pay Milsap what he'll get in free agency. Still, Favors is their guy at PF, so I'm not sure how they would feel about a three man rotation with Bargnani coming off the bench. As for Derozan, Utah is desperate for scoring on the wing, though it would depend how they view Derozan's value post contract extension.

    From Toronto's perspective, this trade would obviously by contingent on Milsap signing an extension (Mo could walk at the end of the season and I still love this deal). Even if we slightly overpay for Milsap, better to pay him 12-14M a season, than Bargnani and Derozan 20-22 combined.

    Under no circumstances (unless it was resulting in a superstar calibre player) should the Raptors consider trading Derozan in a deal with Bargnani. Demar is NOT the problem. I honestly get the feeling that you must have a personal issue with Demar because that could really be the only justification for including him in a trade to Utah that only really gets us Milsap and a back up pg. I am in utter shock.

    Incase you haven't realized, Demar is a legit starting calibre 2 guard (Gay said he's the best he's every played with) with the real potential to develop even more facets of his game to make him even better. For all of Demar's flaws, he still has shown significant improvement from his rookie campaign and has become very effective in what he does. Trading Bargnani is needed, either now, or at the end of the season, but trading Derozan should not even be discussed in joke right now. Maybe at the end of next season, if TRoss explodes into a player with James Harden level impact off the bench then we can consider moving Demar, but not now, and not ever for Milsap. I am actually disgusted at the idea...utterly disgusted.

  16. #8356
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Ya...i really have no idea why you guys would want to do such a ridiculous deal. Until T Ross truly proves that he is good enough to take over, it is not wise to just trade DeRozan. That deal is so lop sided its not even funny, We're basically giving up our second best wing player for a fringe all star and a backup pg. DeRozan is also considered a fringe all star IMO, i would be surprised if he doesn't make it in the next 2 seasons.

  17. #8357
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Decided to have my historic 1,111th post on a historic 1,000,000 view thread!!

    Viva La Vida!
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  18. #8358
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Bargnani still needs to be traded. If you thought Amir Johnson or Landry Fields was overpaid (at time of signing), then this guy breaks the barrier well and beyond.

    By the end of this season he will have stolen $48M from the Toronto Raptors, where his peak value comes from the 13 game mirage and now, a decent offensive big man off the bench. He'll be paid $11M next year to be such a bench player.

    The moment there is an opportunity to trade for a starter, he has to go.
    100% agree, only wouldn't we get a much better return on him when he's an expiring contract and packaged with a draft pick? Another year of him makes me want to gnaw on my coffee table, but if you take emotion out of it, BC would be wise to use his expiring contract snag another good player in Rudy Gay's situation (i.e. on a team looking to shed long-term salary).

    Just a thought. My first post, by the way. Been lurking for over a year. Cheers!

  19. #8359
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Hopefully Raps fans dont boo the poor guy tonight.

  20. #8360
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Westvleteren wrote: View Post
    100% agree, only wouldn't we get a much better return on him when he's an expiring contract and packaged with a draft pick? Another year of him makes me want to gnaw on my coffee table, but if you take emotion out of it, BC would be wise to use his expiring contract snag another good player in Rudy Gay's situation (i.e. on a team looking to shed long-term salary).

    Just a thought. My first post, by the way. Been lurking for over a year. Cheers!
    If you wait until he's an expiring contract he will have stolen over $60M from the Raptors, and if those 13 games are still all he's ever done well, then at that time you'll be trying to sell him based on something he did 4 years ago. It'll be such a distant memory that the best you'll get for him is a 2nd round draft pick similar to the Leandro Barbosa trade we made last year.

    Right now we can get a starting PF and a pretty decent albeit overpaid one. In 3 years, we'll be trading a bench player whose glory days (3 weeks) are a thing of the past.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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