Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[Rapstor4Life]

Hopefully Raps fans dont boo the poor guy tonight.

[ebrian]

100% agree, only wouldn't we get a much better return on him when he's an expiring contract and packaged with a draft pick? Another year of him makes me want to gnaw on my coffee table, but if you take emotion out of it, BC would be wise to use his expiring contract snag another good player in Rudy Gay's situation (i.e. on a team looking to shed long-term salary).

Just a thought. My first post, by the way. Been lurking for over a year. Cheers!

If you wait until he's an expiring contract he will have stolen over $60M from the Raptors, and if those 13 games are still all he's ever done well, then at that time you'll be trying to sell him based on something he did 4 years ago. It'll be such a distant memory that the best you'll get for him is a 2nd round draft pick similar to the Leandro Barbosa trade we made last year.

Right now we can get a starting PF and a pretty decent albeit overpaid one. In 3 years, we'll be trading a bench player whose glory days (3 weeks) are a thing of the past.

[Soft Euro]

Besides, the assumption is that the Rudy Gay trade worked because Calderon is an expiring contract. I don't think that's the case.

[nubreed000]

+1

Although I not sure HOW much he's raised his value as of now. IF there's a good deal on the table, aka shedding salary, getting young players/picks or a legit starting PF you trade bargs. NO QUESTION. However, I don't think you have to trade him because I do believe that as long as he's coming off the bench he can be an effective player, and a good trade might come in the off season or even next year. We aren't doing anything this year even if we trade bargs so I don't see the harm in letting him play the season out.

Not sure I'm big on the boozer trade unless we are getting some good picks back.

+1 right back. If the right deal presents itself then by all means pull the trigger. However, I admit that I'm warming up to the idea of him coming off the bench, especially with Rudy and Demar, and Lowry there to take the pressure off him on offense. He's by no means a centre piece player but he can contribute in a very efficient manner with the role he has now. And in a way that will balance out some of the inefficient performances from others.

[nubreed000]

Oh and trading him for boozer would be one of the worst trades in franchise history. That guy is worse than bargs IMO, even though he averages better stats.

[ebrian]

Oh and trading him for boozer would be one of the worst trades in franchise history. That guy is worse than bargs IMO, even though he averages better stats.

I'd argue that there is no starting PF in the NBA worse than Bargnani. Scratch that -- in the history of the NBA.

[Abdullah.is.solo]

i never liked Primo Pasta to begin with

[DrJ]

Team comes first. Right now Bargs seems to fit in off the bench. If a trade can make the team better, go for it. Right now there's been alot of changes so I'm in favor of sitting tight.

[Nilanka]

Oh and trading him for boozer would be one of the worst trades in franchise history. That guy is worse than bargs IMO, even though he averages better stats.

Care to explain this further?

Contracts aside, Boozer has had a MUCH better career than Bargnani.

[special1]

Oh and trading him for boozer would be one of the worst trades in franchise history. That guy is worse than bargs IMO, even though he averages better stats.

Boozer is a CAREER 16.9 ppg, 9.9 rpg and shoots 53.2 % from the floor

Bargnani is a career 15.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg and shoots 43.8 % from the floor

Boozer has also made the All-Star team in the past (once). In the real world Boozer is better than Bargs -- fanboy.

How could you say this would be the worst trade in franchise history?? WOW

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Boozer is a CAREER 16.9 ppg, 9.9 rpg and shoots 53.2 % from the floor

Bargnani is a career 15.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg and shoots 43.8 % from the floor

Boozer has also made the All-Star team in the past (once). In the real world Boozer is better than Bargs -- fanboy.

How could you say this would be the worst trade in franchise history?? WOW

Bargnani is 27, due to make $10.75M & $11.5M the next 2 seasons.

Boozer is 31, due to make $15.3M & $16.8M the next 2 seasons.

The Raps are already very close to the luxury tax threshold for next season and this trade would push them into the tax. Not only does that make them a tax team, but it severely limits their options for additional roster moves: no bi-annual exception, significantly reduced MLE, more strict financial trade requirements.

I don't think Boozer is enough of an upgrade to justify making 42% / 46% more money than Bargnani over the next two seasons, especially with the negative impact on roster flexibility moving forward.

[Hugmenot]

I'd argue that there is no starting PF in the NBA worse than Bargnani. Scratch that -- in the history of the NBA.

As a mathematician, I just love hyperboles!

[SuperRaptor]

Bargnani is 27, due to make $10.75M & $11.5M the next 2 seasons.

Boozer is 31, due to make $15.3M & $16.8M the next 2 seasons.

The Raps are already very close to the luxury tax threshold for next season and this trade would push them into the tax. Not only does that make them a tax team, but it severely limits their options for additional roster moves: no bi-annual exception, significantly reduced MLE, more strict financial trade requirements.

I don't think Boozer is enough of an upgrade to justify making 42% / 46% more money than Bargnani over the next two seasons, especially with the negative impact on roster flexibility moving forward.

+1 very good points.

[RapthoseLeafs]

Care to explain this further?

Contracts aside, Boozer has had a MUCH better career than Bargnani.

Bargnani is 27, due to make $10.75M & $11.5M the next 2 seasons.

Boozer is 31, due to make $15.3M & $16.8M the next 2 seasons.

The Raps are already very close to the luxury tax threshold for next season and this trade would push them into the tax. Not only does that make them a tax team, but it severely limits their options for additional roster moves: no bi-annual exception, significantly reduced MLE, more strict financial trade requirements.

I don't think Boozer is enough of an upgrade to justify making 42% / 46% more money than Bargnani over the next two seasons, especially with the negative impact on roster flexibility moving forward.

These 2 comments go hand-in-hand.

2013-14 payroll - with Boozer on board, or BYOB ... Bring your own Boozer.
8 players (Rudy, Demar, Amir, Kyle, Fields, Jonas, Ross & Boozer) = $66.8 million [Luxury Tax ~ $70-$71 mil]

2014-15 payroll
7 players + Kyle's New contract (Rudy, Demar, Amir, Fields, Jonas, Ross + Boozer) = 68 million + Kyle
If Kyle gets 10 million per season, the total payroll will cause some serious pain to Toronto's maneuverability options.

.

With Boozer, we are essentially buying a guy for his past, for a team that's looking towards their future. A guy whose Simple Rating this season (and last), suggests the team is better when he's off, then when he's on. A guy who will make 16.8 million dollars in his final year.

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[Matt52]

#tradeBargnani ‏@tradeBargnani

.@RaptorsMR @Raptors I have been thinking about what I am going to do with my handle after #tradeBargnani finally happens. Suggestions?

RaptorsMR RaptorsMR ‏@RaptorsMR

@tradeBargnani Don't be surprised if you are carrying that handle into the offseason.

@RaptorsMR doing his best to scare Raptor fans everywhere.

[RapthoseLeafs]

I'll start off by giving the one big reason - for some - that Andrea should be traded, no questions asked.

"I hate this guy with every living atom in my f*#king body."

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Now ... as to why not:

1) Potential as 6th man, and ability to fill in as the Starter. A further upside (regarding AB), is the potential to realize what it takes, in getting to the next level. Of course, being the Starting PF again would depend on a consistent set of stats to justify it. Otherwise, the 6th man role could suit him and the Raptors, very nicely.

Note: The Italian team's Coach locked into this much earlier then the Raptors, and had success with it. His strategy was to have Andrea come in around the 6 minute mark, and then play him major minutes after that.

2) Rudy Gay changes the dynamics of this team, including Demar, and especially Bargnani. AB's effectiveness turns from being the Go-To guy that attracted double teams, to the Go-To off the Bench. In the game against N.O., Andrea would have helped out the struggling Bench.

3) Future Value. I know this sounds like a "potential" discussion, but there is value in Andrea. For a number of reasons.

a) 6th man role - as explained above

b) Amnesty will continue to be there, and can be used at the beginning of ANY season.

c) Large enough contract that it can be used to acquire another large contract (as Raps did with Rudy). A player paid too much, but who ranks amongst the higher levels of talent [This has been the Lakers (and a few others) secret to success.

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[RapthoseLeafs]

@RaptorsMR doing his best to scare Raptor fans everywhere.

Scare some. Wonderment for others.

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[RapthoseLeafs]

.

• 23.4 ppg, 6.4 Rb, 2.4 apg, 3.0 Stl, 21.4 shots, .435 efg%
  
• 19.7 ppg, 5.2 Rb, 1.6 apg, .9 Stl, 18.3 shots, .454 efg%
  
• 23.5 ppg, 6.6 Rb, 2.3 apg, .7 Stl, 18.8 shots, .466 efg%

WHAT DO THEY ALL MEAN?

The 1st set of numbers are ... HAIL TO THE KING numbers
The 2nd set are ... HELL OUT OF HERE numbers.
The 3rd set are ... HAIL TO THE KING OF HELL ... for 13 games at least (although the numbers reflect the full season)

• 1st set - Rudy's 5 game Toronto experience [40.1 mpg]
• 2nd set - Andrea's 2012-13 numbers [40.1 mpg matching equivalency]
• 3rd set - Andrea's 2011-12 numbers [40.1 again]

AB put up those 3rd set of numbers (in 2011-12), while being the prime focus of Defenses, and for which team expectations rested significantly on his shoulders. He also led the team in Simple Rating http://www.82games.com/1112/1112TOR.HTM . With more space to operate (via Rudy, Demar & Lowry), Bargnani should show a marked improvement.

2009-10 [with Bosh as #1] .... AB = .522 efg%
2008-09 [w/Bosh] ................ AB = .512 efg%

Add the fact that you have a 7 footer who's career FT% is .824, and you have yourself a potent 6th man guy.

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What's the Point to all this?
Raptors should ride out Bargnani to the end of this season, then reassess. If he fits, then good. If he doesn't, then make changes. Play-offs (this season) are an extreme long-shot. Not making them means Raps can clear the slate (of their 1st round pick), and if not - top 3 pick via lottery -then all things turn out great, and Raps can grab a solid PG back-up for the 2013-14 season.

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[Nilanka]

In the eyes of some, Bargnani has more lives than a cat. Why should we give Bargnani any more time in order to reassess him? We know EXACTLY what he is and isn't. If the right deal comes along in the next 9 days, Colangelo has to pull the trigger.

[RapthoseLeafs]

In the eyes of some, Bargnani has more lives than a cat. Why should we give Bargnani any more time in order to reassess him? We know EXACTLY what he is and isn't. If the right deal comes along in the next 9 days, Colangelo has to pull the trigger.

What he isn't:

1. Franchise player
2. No. 1 option
3. #1 overall draft pick (and fans need to let that go)

What he is:

1. Difficult to defend
2. Scoring option from anywhere on the Court
3. A floor spreader who can score in the paint (unlike Ilyasova)
4. Someone who wants to play in Canada
5. Good post defender
6. Ideal off the Bench, with potential to rank amongst top 6th man types

Why reassess him?

1. The Rudy Gay factor is changing the dynamics of this team
2. Opponent focus & Double coverage will be less
3. Could make the Secondary a potent Bench

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