Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[Nilanka]

Tim was VERY knowledgable... for the most part, i appreciated his contributions.... but his anti-bargnani sentiment was out of control

by no means am i comparing him to hitler, but i am sorta comparing him to hitler.... hitler was a GREAT leader, but on the one issue of the jews he was a nutter... same deal... much lesser degree

lol, but Tim was right about Bargnani. All his harping has been justified.

[golden]

Tim was VERY knowledgable... for the most part, i appreciated his contributions.... but his anti-bargnani sentiment was out of control

by no means am i comparing him to hitler, but i am sorta comparing him to hitler.... hitler was a GREAT leader, but on the one issue of the jews he was a nutter... same deal... much lesser degree

Awesome. You're on a roll. lmao.

[Matt52]

lol, but Tim was right about Bargnani. All his harping has been justified.

You are correct.

Tim and I had many head to heads. All my arguments were based on hope and potential that never came to be. All his arguments were based on realities that persisted.

On this topic, I bow to Tim..... if he is out there.

[iblastoff]

This might become one of the all-time most hated thread

But in all seriousness, even with Matt pointing out the record, what do the Raps have to lose? Is starting Bargnani over Amir going to affect Amir? Not likely. Is starting Bargnani over JV going to affect JV? Not really, he should be coming off the bench anyway. Is Bargnani in the starting lineup going to make us miss the playoffs? No, cause we were already missing the playoffs.

Some people may worry about the team chemistry, but I honestly thinkt he players don't care about Bargnani. I think they ignore him most of the time and he isn't a factor for them. Look at the Raps Harlem Shake thing, practically the entire team was there except Bargnani. He is his own little universe.

i would hardly count the harlem shake video as a measure of team cohesiveness. lots of people weren't in it. if anything, look at how the raps literally stand up to cheer for bargnani when hes on the floor in toronto to shut up all the idiotic booing toronto fans.

[heinz57]

You are correct.

Tim and I had many head to heads. All my arguments were based on hope and potential that never came to be. All his arguments were based on realities that persisted.

On this topic, I bow to Tim..... if he is out there.

Tim's arguments weren't without merit... he backed up everything he said, he's a very knowledgable dude... but he very clearly was coming from a place of disdain... if he bent a little, and accepted other people's opinions as what they were... OPINIONS... instead of trying to argue opinions with people... he wouldn't have irked so many people the wrong way

he came off a little too didactic... which doesn't really allow for a decent back and forth... and that's just fodder for the trolls

[slaw]

Tim's arguments weren't without merit... he backed up everything he said, he's a very knowledgable dude... but he very clearly was coming from a place of disdain... if he bent a little, and accepted other people's opinions as what they were... OPINIONS... instead of trying to argue opinions with people... he wouldn't have irked so many people the wrong way

he came off a little too didactic... which doesn't really allow for a decent back and forth... and that's just fodder for the trolls

I agreed with TimW on a lot of things but he was condescending to anyone who disagreed with him. I remember being on the opposite side of most people here when the lockout happened but he was the only person I found it impossible to have any sort of exchange with cause he just kept posting the same stuff over and over without ever addressing any arguments.

He moved on to RaptorsHQ (which is terrible since the formatting change - what a mess) where he would get into it with Buddhafan (another ex-RR poster) and the comments section was the TimW/Buddhafan show. It made the comments section unreadable. Don't know where he is contributing now.

[p00ka]

Great for him.

Too bad the Raps are 4-23 with him as a starter and 0-8 when he scores 20 or more.

Which is as valuable an insight as the raps being 0-3 when Rudy gets 4 steals, or 0-2 when he gets 9 or more rebounds.

[slaw]

Amen, indeed.

I find the turning sentiment today amusing and the bold nails it..... all of it.

Everyone reaches a breaking point. Mine was the Babcock era where I very nearly stopped cheering for the team altogether (remember the posters of Babcock and Mitchell and the New Era promotion?). Now, after 17 years and 3 inches shy of an NBA final (they totally would have smoked the Bucks), the Raptors have killed any hope or joy I have for basketball so nothing they do really affects me that much anymore. Now, I just laugh psychotically at them.

[ezz_bee]

clearly you weren't here during the tim w vs multipaul days

no amount of bargs hating vs bargs nut hugging will ever compare to that insanity

i'm not going to lie... i totally egged on their arguments... to the point that somebody accused me of being multi... and his Bargs is Tupac, and Bargs is GSP threads were absolute classics... his "mathletics" based arguments were the things of trolling genius

but pre-everything bargs thread being born... coming into the main forum was a headache

These guys can't be bigger trolls than tenforthewin, oh man that dude is something else.

tenforthewin is nobody compared to MultiPaul. NOBODY. Multipaul had 1 goal and 1 goal only. To herald the second coming of Bargnani which would usher in the bargpocalypse where bargs would be known around the world as THE BEST basketball player in the history of everything. During which he would laugh manically at all the haters who were too stupid to know how awesome bargnani is, and always was. He had more faith in Barg's than the Pope does in Christ. And I'm not being hyperbolic.

Tenforthewin posts things that aren't researched, and aren't plausible, and doesn't ever bother to defend his initial position. Mulitpaul would argue with you about bargs until you gave up. I'm surprised he hasn't been hired by Fox "News".

MultiPaul was awesome.

When I was a mod I kept trying to work with him behind the scenes to keep him from being banned. But he kept making too much personal in the end.

I wish he stayed on. I really liked his posts..... definitely had a few screws lose but don't we all?

I didn't get into it the way Tim W. did, because I agree with Heinz that he was a little too black and white, but the guy was right, back when people were debating whether we should trade amir or davis Tim and I were arguing to keep both and trade Bargs. If you are interested in what he's doing these days he's got a blog Click Here about the raps. Doesn't post as much as he used to but I still check it out every once and awhile. I'd love for someone to get him on a rapcast at some point.

I miss Multipaul sooo much somedays.

EDIT: Speaking of Tim W. and Bargnani, here's a post he did in Sept. 2010... Top Ten Myths about Andrea Bargnani in case any one is interested. It's an interesting look back into the bargnani debate.

[heinz57]

Everyone reaches a breaking point. Mine was the Babcock era where I very nearly stopped cheering for the team altogether (remember the posters of Babcock and Mitchell and the New Era promotion?). Now, after 17 years and 3 inches shy of an NBA final (they totally would have smoked the Bucks), the Raptors have killed any hope or joy I have for basketball so nothing they do really affects me that much anymore. Now, I just laugh psychotically at them.

I think a lot of newer fans who have only been around for a few years have been able to keep hope alive watching other teams turn it around. But, eventually, the Raptors suck all the joy out of fandom and break you. I love coming to the Raps forums and reading posters who are still so passionate and live and die for every game. I can't imagine ever getting back there with this team. I allowed myself to believe for about a year when they hired Colangelo. Won't be fooled again...

the funny thing about babcock...

GMing isn't an easy job... we can all debate, and point fingers, and opine on GMs we like or dislike, or who we think are doing an awful job... but really, it's not an easy job... even one of the worst GMs in the league, the majority of us wouldn't be able to do their job any better... its EASY to say "oh this is what the team needs, lets go after that thing"... but actually doing it, or doing something even remotely close to it, is hard as hell... i dont envy their jobs... i think BC has bungled alot of things.... ALOT... but even his screw ups, if put in his position, i wouldn't have been successful enough to get to the point of screwing up...

i DO think i could have been a better GM than Babcock

If i was the GM at the time in an alternate dimension... and i literally got a PIECE OF SHIT for Vince Carter... like, literally... somebody scooped up some NJ dog poop off the streets of Newark and said "i'll give you this for VC" and i took it... and somebody showed me a window into the other dimension and what Babcock got for him.... i woulda got that piece of shit bronzed and put it up in my trophy case

[Stahmenah_Vybz]

who even cares anymore

MY Point exactly!

[akashsingh]

I wasn't a member at the time, but I used to browse these forums. Didn't matt (mod at the time) and tim w. have a huge falling out, with tim w swearing he'd never post here again?

[golden]

Since this thread has turned into an homage to Tim W and Multipaul, here's a great quote from Tim's blog. Really hits the nail on the head......

http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...uire-rudy-gay/

IF Colangelo’s plan was to have a trio of Rudy Gay, Andrea Bargnani and DeMar DeRozan as the teams leading scorers, then he’s a worse judge of talent and team builder than I thought. All three can score, there’s no doubt about it. But all three are inefficient scorers who can disappear for long stretches at a time. On top of that, they’re all below average rebounders, especially for their size and athleticism. And not one of them are going to impress anyone with their defense. Basically, they’re one dimensional players who aren’t all that good at their one dimension.

[heinz57]

I wasn't a member at the time, but I used to browse these forums. Didn't matt (mod at the time) and tim w. have a huge falling out, with tim w swearing he'd never post here again?

i disappeared from the board for awhile during that period... and when i came back, i heard something similar... not specifically Matt, but that Tim got into it with people too heavy handedly and took his ball and went home instead of playing nice

[Matt52]

Which is as valuable an insight as the raps being 0-3 when Rudy gets 4 steals, or 0-2 when he gets 9 or more rebounds.

Welcome the new multipaul!

[Nilanka]

Welcome the new multipaul!

He's more of a multipaul/Tim W. hybrid (i.e loves Bargnani, but refuses to accept anyone's opinion if it differs from his own).

[TRex]

Since this thread has turned into an homage to Tim W and Multipaul, here's a great quote from Tim's blog. Really hits the nail on the head......

http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...uire-rudy-gay/

IF Colangelo’s plan was to have a trio of Rudy Gay, Andrea Bargnani and DeMar DeRozan as the teams leading scorers, then he’s a worse judge of talent and team builder than I thought. All three can score, there’s no doubt about it. But all three are inefficient scorers who can disappear for long stretches at a time. On top of that, they’re all below average rebounders, especially for their size and athleticism. And not one of them are going to impress anyone with their defense. Basically, they’re one dimensional players who aren’t all that good at their one dimension.

I wouldn't put Gay on that list because he's actually a pretty good rebounder. And defensively he's not that bad. He's not the greatest defensive player in the world but he uses his length well and he always seems to have 3-4 steals a game. As for his scoring, he's not the greatest shooter in the world, but when the game is on the line he makes shots. And he's one of those guys that is capable of taking over a game.

I agree w/ you about DeRozan and Bargnani though. Two of the most inefficient players in the game. If they're not scoring they're basically useless. You said it perfectly. One dimensional player who aren't all that good with their one dimension.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I wouldn't put Gay on that list because he's actually a pretty good rebounder. And defensively he's not that bad. He's not the greatest defensive player in the world but he uses his length well and he always seems to have 3-4 steals a game. As for his scoring, he's not the greatest shooter in the world, but when the game is on the line he makes shots. And he's one of those guys that is capable of taking over a game.

I agree w/ you about DeRozan and Bargnani though. Two of the most inefficient players in the game. If they're not scoring they're basically useless. You said it perfectly. One dimensional player who aren't all that good with their one dimension.

Agreed. If Bargnani could be replaced with a stud PF who plays a more traditional low-post game and DeRozan could be replaced with a lockdown perimeter defender who isn't a ball-dominant player and can hit an open 3pt shot, the team's starting lineup would have much better balance, increased scoring efficiency and improved defense (assuming Lowry, Gay and Valanciunas are the other starters). The PF would need to be acquired via trade/S&T (for Bargnani and/or DeRozan), but Fields could potentially be an in-house solution for the SG spot.

[heinz57]

He's more of a multipaul/Tim W. hybrid (i.e loves Bargnani, but refuses to accept anyone's opinion if it differs from his own).

all he needs to do now is refer to some obscure metrics, provide a link to back up his point, but when you click on the link you spend hours scouring it for anything somewhat relevant and you just can't find it, and then tell you that you're wrong for having an opinion and leave the board forever

i dub this frankenstein monster "MultiTim"

[Halifax Raps Fan]

I'll say this; whether or not you agree with others' opinions, I love the fact that so many do care about this team! Even bothering with these posts proves that! Go Raps (next year, of course!)