Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[yertu damkule]

i'm not sure what the point would be...bargs' fans won't be swayed if negative viewpoints are expressed about him, they'll just see it as more 'bashing' & 'hate,' and point to whatever positives he brings, or look to put blame elsewhere (coaches, teammates, weather, traffic getting to the arena, cold locker room, bad pre-game meal...).

the exercise itself isn't a bad idea, but we can all do it. for myself, i know that when there's a clear case of a blown assignment or a shit sandwich offensive possession, i'll roll back the PVR to determine how/why it happened. doing so has no value in & of itself, but it helps to do so in developing an overall impression of a player.

oh, and it's not just bargs - he receives his fair share of criticism, and 90% of it is warranted, but it's not as though he's the only hole on either end...there were more than enough examples by pretty much every player of blown assignments, poor (or no) rotations, lack of communication, lack of ball movement, lack of movement in general, pounding the crap out of the ball on offense, and guys looking to get their own shots above all else. singling out bargs would more than likely just focus attention away from where it also needs to be paid, which is to the team (extending to the coaches/management) as a whole.

[Ruuuuu]

I don't really know what the point would be. It's fairly obvious to anyone who watches that he's simply a poor defender. Against Washington he was worse than usual. His man to man defense, which is often overrated by fans around here, was poor and his team defense was downright atrocious. Do we needs stats to see this?

Well I would like to see a breakdown of some of the fundamental mistakes he makes....

but yeah I agree he was worse than usual last night so dont even bother with the Washington game. It wasn't even low bbal IQ mistakes that I normally accuse him of, it was like he was moving in slow motion.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was sick or something. He's the kind of guy who would hide it and not even mention it to reporters etc. and it has been going around the team lately (anderson, reggie).

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

i'm not sure what the point would be...bargs' fans won't be swayed if negative viewpoints are expressed about him, they'll just see it as more 'bashing' & 'hate,' and point to whatever positives he brings, or look to put blame elsewhere (coaches, teammates, weather, traffic getting to the arena, cold locker room, bad pre-game meal...).

the exercise itself isn't a bad idea, but we can all do it. for myself, i know that when there's a clear case of a blown assignment or a shit sandwich offensive possession, i'll roll back the PVR to determine how/why it happened. doing so has no value in & of itself, but it helps to do so in developing an overall impression of a player.

oh, and it's not just bargs - he receives his fair share of criticism, and 90% of it is warranted, but it's not as though he's the only hole on either end...there were more than enough examples by pretty much every player of blown assignments, poor (or no) rotations, lack of communication, lack of ball movement, lack of movement in general, pounding the crap out of the ball on offense, and guys looking to get their own shots above all else. singling out bargs would more than likely just focus attention away from where it also needs to be paid, which is to the team (extending to the coaches/management) as a whole.

i agree that its not just bargs. everyone stinks on defense. not even 1 block the whole game? common, thats pathetic.
sad to say, but the Center is the last line of defense. guards get blown by often, so your center should be sliding in the paint and getting the block once an offensive player slips by. i saw the magic game and bargs couldnt even block jameer. bosh at least was able to slide in and block the guards a couple of times, but bargs is just a lost case. to think last year this was already the problem and the trainers still wasnt able to instill defense in bargs' hard shell. ive always said that BC took bargs for his offense and not defense, but common now, at least show a little effort.

[Arsenalist]

I don't think I've done anything that deserves to be punished like this. How about this, you do it, I'll post it.

[heinz57]

bargs takes way too much blame for the whole team's crap defense.. but he isn't free of blame

i'll give him the pass on it half the time though, because who did you expect him to be suddenly? the second coming of bill russell?

but god damn.... hit your shots.... just do that much... god knows thats the reason you got your pay cheque

[Arsenalist]

It is easy to say lets move AB and Calderon and... but it is much harder to do in real life.

What do you think you will get back for AB now? He has 4 year worth of 40 million left on his contract . What are you expecting to get back for him? Which team you think is interested?

Calderon ?? Forget about it !! BC has been trying to move this guy for last 8 month and no luck. This is what happens when you over pay.

BarBosa !! Maybe !! if his hand was OK !!

Evans !! no one is going to pay for his contract now. Maybe close to trade deadline someone will pick him up.

Lets face it guys, we need to wait now and really evaluate these guys. There is plenty of time to make moves in future.
Right now, it is time to see who blongs and who does NOT.

I used to be of this belief, but if Hedo Turkoglu can be moved, I'm sure so can Bargnani. Of course, Turkoglu was a relatively proven commodity with a track record. Bargnani doesn't have that and it'll require a leap of faith for a GM to take him on, a leap that is completely possible.

[yertu damkule]

...i'll give him the pass on it half the time though, because who did you expect him to be suddenly? the second coming of bill russell?

this is what drives me crazy. no one expects bill russell-like performance (since, y'know, he's one of the best players to ever lace 'em up & all). from any player in the L, let alone the raps. but why is it so much to ask for even AVERAGE defense/rebounding? or hell, BELOW AVERAGE defense & rebounding (for a centre)? why is that such a stretch? i don't understand...clearly, the people who are in bargs' corner have never played with a guy like him...a me-first, shoot-shoot-shoot mentality who shuns the 'hard' work & lets the 'lesser talented' people fight for possession of the ball, so it can then get into his hands, so he can shoot some more. basketball is fun when the only expectation (and only responsibility, seemingly) is to take shots.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

bargs takes way too much blame for the whole team's crap defense.. but he isn't free of blame

i'll give him the pass on it half the time though, because who did you expect him to be suddenly? the second coming of bill russell?

but god damn.... hit your shots.... just do that much... god knows thats the reason you got your pay cheque

agreed. but if youre not defending, and not hitting shots, then youre not worth the penny you get paid for. if his shots werent going in, he should have adjusted and drove more. but then i realized, why am i getting stressed? its bargnani we're talking about.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Oh and whats more pathetic is Gallinari got a double-double, 21 pts and 10 rebs!

[Arsenalist]

http://twitter.com/Eric__Smith/status/4735057650524160

Had a conversation with him over Twitter, went something like this:

@Eric__Smith: D is largely about energy and hustle ... TOR had none of it tonight (and much of the season thus far)

@raptorshq: Agreed...but if guys like Bargnani are giving you none night after night, it becomes a personnel issue...


@Eric__Smith: i don't see him going anywhere

@raptorshq: I don't either...which is a major problem for franchise's future. Hard to build a house with a foundation made out of sand...

@Eric__Smith: he has a TON of talent. A TON ... but he's got to play with MUCH more FIRE

@DanRapsFan: How long do you defend potential that for 5 seasons has pretty much never consistently come out?

@Eric__Smith: listen to the broadcast and tell me if i'm defending it. he has all the talent in the world but he MUST be better

@CornerSniper: Michael Olowakandi also had a LOT of talent. Sam Bowie too.

@raptorshq: @CornerSniper Bingo - was going to add something to this effect but referencing guys like Coleman...

@Eric__Smith: @CornerSniper you're crazy if you think he's in that category. gimme a break. i'd bet 29 GMs would trade for him right now

[RaptorsFan4Life]

I agree with him, Bargs is young and has and extreme amount of potential and doesn't have any injury probs. There has got to be a ton of GM that'd trade for Bargs.

[Gats]

Last night's effort was unacceptable - not really worth selling the farm over though. Bargs should feel some shame and come out on fire tonight. I'm not sure what trades this team could even make to be good at this point... really, I'm at a loss. Things may look a bit better if Barbosa wasn't banged up permanently, but at least he isn't Hedo.

[Trife76]

The truth is what he's saying is a lie but you dont want to put it out there on twitter or the internet that this guy stinks and nobody wants him,cuz other NBA ppl around the league will see it and read it.....but GMs around the league dont want a 7 foot puss who doesnt rebound and doesnt hustle making 10 milly a season lol...

[Trife76]

Biggest overstatement is he got a ton of talent....

His shooting % isnt that great nor is is 3 pt %...he can shoot long range but statistically he isnt great at it....he takes alot of awkward looking post shots and turn around shots....he has raw abilities but to say a ton of talent is overstating it....

[Gats]

Very true that any GM in their right mind would want Bargs - but if Beasley can be had for a 2nd rounder I don't think we could expect KD or Melo in return for him. Would you do a Bargs for Oden trade? Seriously, he's not that bad...

[Trife76]

Although I FULLY agree with the idea that Bargs has to go, it isn't the right time to maximize his value. Right now you'd probably be looking at dumping him for a bad player with a shorter contract and maybe a draft pick, but if you wait for injuries to hit around the trade deadline and/or for his scoring average to pass 20ppg, you'll be looking at a far more valuable commodity.

If you noted,i said mid season sometime in the new year.....probably around all star break...

[Trife76]

Everyone is frustrated. The players are frustrated, the fans are frustrated and the coach is frustrated. When was the last time you saw Triano get so pissed off that he said his players are playing like horseshit? Things are going to change with the starting line-up. I think the first thing to change is Evans, who is lovable like a drunken uncle who gives you a noogie, but kind of stumbles into things and breaks them. Bargnani is staying where he is because there is no other option at his position. Remember, Colangelo isn't afraid to roll the dice. He sees the same games you do. Come trade deadline, who knows what this team may look like.

If we start to string a few wins together, the attitude on this board will change. We are quite a reactionary bunch, aren't we.

Nah we could make the playoffs and i still want him gone....him and BC need to be tied to a cement block and dropped in lake ontario....

[Trife76]

Dumb thread.....When you see an opposing player driving in the paint uncontested for a layup and our center is standing both feet outside the paint standing still what else you need to see.....

Check that thread for the pics of him defending Demarcus Cousins lol

[Tim W.]

No one is accusing Bargnani of not having talent. I mean, the guy is averaging close to 20 ppg and he's very mobile for a guy his size. But there is talent you can win with and talent you can't. I simply can't see how you can win with a guy like that playing a major role. I also don't doubt there would be 29 teams who would trade for him right now, but the two questions are, what would they offer and what kid of role would they give him on their team? Teams like San Antonio, Miami and the Lakers, that focus so much on doing the little things, would end up limiting his minutes because he can't, or won't, do them. And he certainly wouldn't be playing in crunch time for them, when mistakes on both ends of the court can kill a team's chances of winning.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

he definitely has a lot of talent, but not enough to be the #1 option.
sure, 29 GMs would trade for Bargnani right now, what he didnt say was what theyre willing to offer.