Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[Gats]

He isn't a top 10 center really. That said, I think he'd probably start on almost any team in the league as one of their bigs - If not start, at least get heavy minutes. Of course I don't think the Raps have a top 20 at any position, thus the 3-9 record.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Nope. /thread

[Gats]

On a related note... is it almost time for Greg Oden to call it a career? Wow, another season gone with another knee surgery... Makes you want to rethink the hate aimed at Bargs on a daily basis doesn't it?

[RaptorDan]

Hopefully in a couple of years, Alabi will be the Raptors' Hibbert. I have high hopes for him.

[Bendit]

There was a parallel to hockey towns in our convo, but the idea of the fanbase being more blue-collar than the city is pretty interesting. But honestly I'm not sure if its true. When I was a kid I spent a lot of time in Crown Heights (BK) and the only time we went to Manhattan was a show or concert...Knicks games never came up. Did kids dream of playin there? Ya but noone I knew could afford to go to a game and that was a long time ago. I see Knick fans (who visit MSG) upper middle class to wealthy people roughin it while Rap fans can hustle some tickets under twenty if they have connects. I'm sure things have changed and how people look at savin money has definitely changed since them.

I was generalizing really across pro sports rather than bb specifically. But you are right about getting to see the Knicks...they were a tough ticket and I as well could not afford the scalpers. But dont forget seasons tickets were passed down by families so you had all representations of the demographic. NYK basketball at one time was special as you know and people expected a high level of play and hard all the time...or you heard it. TO doesnt have that bb history but you see it in hockey.

[RaptorDan]

I think Bargs is the best SG to be playing at Centre in the league right now.

Yeah Gats, poor Oden. He could have been a beast if he was healthy. He had a serious injury problem starting in high school. Dude will never get a full season in. On the upside, he looks 40 yrs old and based on that he could retire.

[jrdyck]

Yes, I still think Bargnani is a top 10 center.

I would give reasons, but there's really no point. I'd have better luck convincing people that Jay Triano is a murderous flesh-eating cyborg.

Fire away...

[Tim W.]

In the present state of our team, your probably right. Do you think BC trying to create an identity will be his downfall?

I think Colangelo is past trying to create an identity and simply trying to grab as many young talented players as he can, for the moment. What he does with them is what will define him in Toronto.

[Nick]

+1million. Id rather stick my head in the freezer, or the grinder.
2 rebounds?? Are you fucking kidding me?

Ive been a defender of Bargs since he got drafted but no more.
He wont even get value in a trade, i say we just waive him.

Good to great players pay their dues at both ends of the floor.
You want shots, you have to defend at the other end.
Seems like Bargnani is getting a free ride, all he wants to do is shoot and not exert effort on the defensive end
as soon as the ball goes up you see him running to the offensive end coz he wants to get the ball and shoot
its pathetic. he's pathetic. and BC will be pathetic if he doesnt trade this lazy ass soon.

Funny how you put the full blame on Andrea, and none on the coaching staff? Waive him? I think there's a carnival who could use a GM like you..

[Nick]

I don't really know what the point would be. It's fairly obvious to anyone who watches that he's simply a poor defender. Against Washington he was worse than usual. His man to man defense, which is often overrated by fans around here, was poor and his team defense was downright atrocious. Do we needs stats to see this?

To be honest, Washingtons big men are beasts, or they were playing like it against us; especially Mcgee..

[CB4]

I hate to say it but Roy Hibbert is a better center.

[Tim W.]

Funny how you put the full blame on Andrea, and none on the coaching staff? Waive him? I think there's a carnival who could use a GM like you..

I obviously don't think Bargnani should be waived, but why would you blame the coaches? He's had two different head coaches, and several different assistant coaches. And I'm pretty sure all of them would have liked to have seen Bargnani rebound and box out a lot better. I don't like blaming coaches for something that is the responsibility of the player to know.

[Tim W.]

To be honest, Washingtons big men are beasts, or they were playing like it against us; especially Mcgee..

Isn't Bargnani supposed to be a good player, though? And it obviously goes well beyond the Washington game. Even in the Philadelphia game, which was supposedly a great game for Bargnani, his defense was not good. As he sometimes does, he played well post defense, but was hung out to dry by players facing up and made just as many bad mistakes on team defense as he usually does.

[Krix]

Yes, I still think Bargnani is a top 10 center.

I would give reasons, but there's really no point. I'd have better luck convincing people that Jay Triano is a murderous flesh-eating cyborg.

Fire away...

The honourable thing would be just to admit defeat.

Just teasing...although I am quite curious why you would think so.

[JoePanini]

I don't think anyone ever considered him a top 10 center. At some point some argued about him being a top 15 or 20 center. Anyways his defense and rebounding means that he will never be a top 10 center unless he scores 30 a game. I was happy to see him drop 30 on Philly though

[Beaverboi]

Its funny how Raps fans always bring up 'we could have gotten Roy'
Just think what Blazers fans are going thorugh, knowing they could have had Durant.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Its funny how Raps fans always bring up 'we could have gotten Roy'
Just think what Blazers fans are going thorugh, knowing they could have had Durant.

That and the fact that Roy is crippled for the rest of his career by the knee injury he suffered...

[Multipaul]

Bargs is definitely a top 10 center right now. Who else is better? Maybe Dwight? If someone says one of the Lopez freaks they deserve a slap.

[pistol pete]

He is a top 10. Just read what Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan and now Doug Collins had to say about him.

[black angus]

If the Raptors have a chance at getting Hibbert (which they don;t) the Raptors should keep Bargnani - they would compliement each other almost perfectly.