View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #2341
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    That's because Darko isn't the #1 option but there have been games this season that he has won the game for them...
    Darko can't be a number one option. He has a decent post game but that's it. Bargnani helps our team so much more than Darko ever would. Darko can't space the floor, so we would have 2 wings who are relatively bad from range, DeRozan and Weems, and as Darko has to stay inside they would have to space around the three line. In Minnesota not only do they have 3 point shooters, but Kevin Love does the spacing work, that's why he's effective there. Darko would not put up stats like those on the Raptors.

  2. #2342
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    If you want neutrality, NBA.com might have forums.
    well said

  3. #2343
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Darko can't be a number one option. He has a decent post game but that's it. Bargnani helps our team so much more than Darko ever would. Darko can't space the floor, so we would have 2 wings who are relatively bad from range, DeRozan and Weems, and as Darko has to stay inside they would have to space around the three line. In Minnesota not only do they have 3 point shooters, but Kevin Love does the spacing work, that's why he's effective there. Darko would not put up stats like those on the Raptors.
    Bargnani helps the team more ON OFFENSE. He hurts the team on defense and on the boards. Darko doesn't have Bargnani's offensive abilities, but I certainly wouldn't say he doesn't help the team as much or more than Bargnani. Personally, I'd like to watch Darko a little more, but if he gives you 15 ppg (on decent shooting), 8-9 rpg and 2.5 bpg while playing good defense, that's better than 25 ppg, but poor rebounding and defense. The issue with Darko is that he was shooting so poorly in 10 of the first 11 games, he was a liability on the offensive end. In the games since then he hasn't been. It's not how good a player is in one aspect, it's how much a liability he is in others.

    By the way, I just want to point out to some others that we have been able to have a discussion where we disagree, yet no one is insulting the other person. Amazing how that can work, isn't it?
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  4. #2344
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bargnani helps the team more ON OFFENSE. He hurts the team on defense and on the boards. Darko doesn't have Bargnani's offensive abilities, but I certainly wouldn't say he doesn't help the team as much or more than Bargnani. Personally, I'd like to watch Darko a little more, but if he gives you 15 ppg (on decent shooting), 8-9 rpg and 2.5 bpg while playing good defense, that's better than 25 ppg, but poor rebounding and defense. The issue with Darko is that he was shooting so poorly in 10 of the first 11 games, he was a liability on the offensive end. In the games since then he hasn't been. It's not how good a player is in one aspect, it's how much a liability he is in others.

    By the way, I just want to point out to some others that we have been able to have a discussion where we disagree, yet no one is insulting the other person. Amazing how that can work, isn't it?
    You're a loser.

    Wait, did I ruin it? :P

    Actually I think a combination of Darko AND Bargnani would be good. Sort of like another twin towers experiment. I think they're both mobile enough so that the combination isn't too slow, but that amount of size in the paint could certainly help us compete with a lot of front lines.

  5. #2345
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    as much as i dislike AB he has been showing signs of an offensive breakout. lets see if he can maintain it before we judge.... also now that the team is playing better defence as a whole AB's weak Defence isnt getting as exposed as in the past... atleast not yet..... Candice Parker can still out rebound bargs though LOL

  6. #2346
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    I actually have seen a few teammates talking to Bargs about his rotations. Hopefully one day he'll know where to be on the court instinctually.

    I would wait for the season to conclude before writing any team off however. It's a long season and you never know what might happen. You could possibly be digesting your words 3 months from now.
    other teammates sure, but bosh, i dont think so.

    not sure where youre going with the second comment. i didnt say the heat suck, but they do. im merely saying bosh maybe tried to get bargs to have dinner with him, but he didnt oblige.
    only LBJ and Wade gave in. I couldnt care less if they win or lose. to me, theyll always be losers.

  7. #2347
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    oh mah bad! i guess calling him barfs and seemingly pointing out every wrong thing that he's doing in every post that you do is "nothing personal" on bargs. holy shit, im scared to be your enemy then! imagine how much more damage youll do if you do admit you hate a person, yikes! im sorry man, please forgive me, dont go postal on me, im sorry, im sorry, there there now.....

    i really think its pathetic when people keep hatin here and when they get called out they go serious and do a 180...at least im not donkey enough to not admit i loved bargs, then hated him then loved him again.

    i think we'd rather hate on a guy who left under bullcrap circumstance rather than post "nothing personal" messages on a guy who's still on the team! maybe its just me, but i think crapping on a player who's still playing with the home team is kinda not normal than calling a player who left....weird. but hey, thats just me. so what are you going to do when bargs leaves? are you gonna be like, yeah, leave him alone, he was awesome when he was here, yada yada yada.

    i think whats really funny is now you turned around and start praising bargs for his 20+ efforts but still throws in those subtle jabs just to keep your feet in the neutral side.

    you remind me of those girls in highschool who talk shit about everybody and when get confronted they go, what? i didnt say that!

    nothing personal man, just keeping a balance, like what you said.
    How is Barfs not personal or the other names he's been called in the past?
    At least Bargnani is here playing with his teamates not sucking up to that other loser LeBron in Miami.
    sleepz has tamed his post hate on Bargs lately to appear more moderate and it looks good sometimes, but as soon as someone says something about RuPaul he goes squirly.

  8. #2348
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    im merely saying bosh maybe tried to get bargs to have dinner with him, but he didnt oblige.
    only LBJ and Wade gave in.
    So am i to understand, that what you're saying, is that you believe... that bosh has a habit... nay, let's call it a preference... to ask his teammates of a certain gender... or as some say, "sex"... out for dinner?

    That's quite the sexual preference bosh has.

  9. #2349
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    What does that mean? A lot of derogatory chat on these forums. Administrators should clean it up as majority of us are grown adults not juveniles.

    Barfs should be thaking Bosh for taking him under his wing and turning him into a terrific perimeter scorer. Wish he could have schooled him better on the boards, but the scoring is good for now.
    HAHAHAHAHA ahhhh yes it was bosh who was responsible for making bags a perimeter scorer. perhaps you should youtube some videos of bargs pre draft, or maybe bosh raised him in italy and showed him the ways of perimeter scoring back then. but i suppose those who cant, teach, maybe bosh can watch come game film and get some pointers from bargs now, he could use them. the only thing bosh could've taught bargs was a low post game, but we all know how sorely lacking his was both here and in miami. get your head out of your ass

  10. #2350
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    That was a very flattering article on Bargnani. The Miami media putting that out there was most definitely the equivalent to poking somebody with a sharp stick.

    The confidence Bargs has played with the last few games, especially against Philly, is quite obvious. I am curious to see what he does tonight. Shaq had 25/11 last game for BOS.

    Rebounding is something I stopped expected from Bargnani a while ago now. My life is much better for it. One thing that I cannot let go however is his inability to go left when he posts up. If he could do a move to the middle and finish back to the left side with a little hook or drop step it would really help that part of his game. The only other C I can think of who could go left less than Bargnani was Patrick Ewing.

  11. #2351
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Both were drafted with very high expectations
    Difference is, Darko was never given a chance to develop, Bargs was given the chance but did not fully grasp it.

    I know everybody will hate me but id take Darko.

    Cant teach defense. Shotblocking and rebounding takes instinct. you have to know where the ball is going to land, you have to know when to jump to get that block.
    As we see now, Darko is getting shots and making them. Even if he doesnt shoot the 3, he can still get the 25pts in the paint.
    Bargs may be a mismatch nightmare, but when he's off, nothing he can do. At least with Darko, he can still rely on his defense.
    actually defense can be taught, theres no glory in it so very few learn it

  12. #2352
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    Quote _cp_ wrote: View Post
    HAHAHAHAHA ahhhh yes it was bosh who was responsible for making bags a perimeter scorer. perhaps you should youtube some videos of bargs pre draft, or maybe bosh raised him in italy and showed him the ways of perimeter scoring back then. but i suppose those who cant, teach, maybe bosh can watch come game film and get some pointers from bargs now, he could use them. the only thing bosh could've taught bargs was a low post game, but we all know how sorely lacking his was both here and in miami. get your head out of your ass

    AHhahahah awesome. Man, I really hope to see Bargs destroy CBWhore when Miami comes here next year. Guaranteed Bosh has a "sick day" for that one, pu***

  13. #2353
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    So am i to understand, that what you're saying, is that you believe... that bosh has a habit... nay, let's call it a preference... to ask his teammates of a certain gender... or as some say, "sex"... out for dinner?

    That's quite the sexual preference bosh has.
    LMAO, hey, it's no secret Heinz, the dude likes milk

  14. #2354
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    You're a loser.
    Arggg!!!

    Oh, and I think you meant to say "Your" a loser.

    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    Actually I think a combination of Darko AND Bargnani would be good. Sort of like another twin towers experiment. I think they're both mobile enough so that the combination isn't too slow, but that amount of size in the paint could certainly help us compete with a lot of front lines.
    I think it would be better, but you'd still be at a disadvantage defensively and on the boards. Plus, more agile PFs will absolutely dominate.
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  15. #2355
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    Quote _cp_ wrote: View Post
    actually defense can be taught, theres no glory in it so very few learn it
    Defense can be taught, but the foundations of it usually begin early, and they don't appear to be there with Bargnani. And to learn good defense takes years. We're now on year five.
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  16. #2356
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Defense can be taught, but the foundations of it usually begin early, and they don't appear to be there with Bargnani. And to learn good defense takes years. We're now on year five.
    lol in all seriousness his help defense is terrible, one on one he is an average defender in my opinion. the biggest liability on defense is jose. his angles and spacing are terrible. picking up rondo 2 feet outside the three point line, when you know a. he makes his living on the drive and b. he cant and wont shoot anything outside a free throw line jumper and c. you dont have any hope of keeping up with his foot speed. the raptor guards and wings are notoriously bad at this, some just are athletic enough to hide it. getting beat and forcing rotations exposes how bad bargs is at help defense and takes him away from the rim, leaving him not contesting shots and pulling him out of rebounding position. he has to get better at making up his mind and being aware of whats going on around him and anticipating whats going to happen next and committing to it.

  17. #2357
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    Quote _cp_ wrote: View Post
    lol in all seriousness his help defense is terrible, one on one he is an average defender in my opinion. the biggest liability on defense is jose. his angles and spacing are terrible. picking up rondo 2 feet outside the three point line, when you know a. he makes his living on the drive and b. he cant and wont shoot anything outside a free throw line jumper and c. you dont have any hope of keeping up with his foot speed. the raptor guards and wings are notoriously bad at this, some just are athletic enough to hide it. getting beat and forcing rotations exposes how bad bargs is at help defense and takes him away from the rim, leaving him not contesting shots and pulling him out of rebounding position. he has to get better at making up his mind and being aware of whats going on around him and anticipating whats going to happen next and committing to it.
    Bargnani's help defense is terrible, but his one on one defense is overrated. He's inconsistently fine against big, back to the basket players who can't put the ball on the floor. Bargnani best attribute is that he doesn't go for fakes and is long. If a player faces him up, he's at an immediate disadvantage because he doesn't move his feet well.

    Calderon isn't a great defender, but he's improved this season enough that's he's not the liability he used to be.

    The reason that Bargnani is the main problem is because he's a big man with very poor defensive skills. You simply can't hide that like you can hide perimeter players who are subpar defensive players. No matter how good your perimeter players are defensively, they're going to get beaten, whether on isolations or pick and rolls. You simply can't hide bigs defensively. Phoenix didn't get destroyed by the Lakers on offensive because of Steve Nash's defensive deficiencies. They got killed because Amare is simply a poor defensive player. The big man is the last line of defense, whether you play PF or center.

    Look at the teams on the bottom and the teams at the top of defensive field goal percentage...
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...oalPctOpponent
    Without question, the majority of the teams that are near the bottom have poor defensive big men and the teams at the top have good defensive big men. Even Oklahoma, who have great perimeter defenders, can't get past the fact that they have Nenad Krstic and Jeff Green (who plays out of position) as their starting frontcourt. Even when Serge Ibaka starts, it doesn't hide the fact that Kristic isn't a good defensive player.
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  18. #2358
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    @Tim W. good points, all of them, i'm not going to argue bargs defensive short comings because they are there for all to see. i still think he isnt quite as bad as you think though.

    and this is a matter of personal opion, from what ive experience and watched etc if you get beat from the outside, regardless of how good your interior defenders are, its an odd man situation. if nobody steps up its a jumper, and if your posts steps up its a dump off or drive for two. if your wings collapse its a kick out for a 3 or a drive or etc. getting beat causes your defense to shift and when it does lanes open up and people get open. good defensive teams can talk rotate quick and recover as best they can. all of this can be avoided though if you can keep you man in front of you on the outside. personally i think that's what hurts us more. watch the celts game tonight and i'll do the same, we can compare notes.

  19. #2359
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bargnani helps the team more ON OFFENSE. He hurts the team on defense and on the boards. Darko doesn't have Bargnani's offensive abilities, but I certainly wouldn't say he doesn't help the team as much or more than Bargnani. Personally, I'd like to watch Darko a little more, but if he gives you 15 ppg (on decent shooting), 8-9 rpg and 2.5 bpg while playing good defense, that's better than 25 ppg, but poor rebounding and defense. The issue with Darko is that he was shooting so poorly in 10 of the first 11 games, he was a liability on the offensive end. In the games since then he hasn't been. It's not how good a player is in one aspect, it's how much a liability he is in others.

    By the way, I just want to point out to some others that we have been able to have a discussion where we disagree, yet no one is insulting the other person. Amazing how that can work, isn't it?
    But the only reason Milicic is able to put up those numbers is Kevin Love. He needs a guy to space the floor to play well, he stays in the paint and is actually pretty good there. I remember when he played in the Euroleague he had silky post moves. But Milicic's rebounding is very good, his shot blocking is incredible. I would not be surprised to see him surpass Howard with BPG this year. Milicic is also a good candidate for MIP, so if there is a reason to trade for him I would say that it is to get the Raptors an award. But I wouldn't consider this trade, unless they give us 2011 and 2012 first round picks or Kevin Love. Maybe they will be crazy enough, our 1st round pick and Bargnani for Milicic and Love. I'd do that in a heartbeat.

  20. #2360
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    Darko's recent performance is an aberration.
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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