Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[RaptorsFan4Life]

I really need to add a "yawns" smilie because another trade Andrea thread is getting old Buddah.



+1 ...... But I'd part with Weems long before DeMar. (ie see my Weems rant)

While you're at it can you add a "facepalm" smiley?

[Hotshot]

My favorite player Hotshot ...... Rick Mahorn.

The Raptors should hire this guy as an assistent or something, he doesn't look like he would tolerate watching weak defence without snapping some necks.

[Dr. James Naismith]

While you're at it can you add a "facepalm" smiley?

Cheers RF4Life. Now I gotta see how to add them without deleting the entire forum.

[Dr. James Naismith]

The Raptors should hire this guy as an assistent or something, he doesn't look like he would tolerate watching weak defence without snapping some necks.

I agree. He's available right now too. Currently working as an analyst with the Pistons.

[Blasterfi9]

Y do we have these hate Bargs discussions?

I dont get y? he got drafted number one a few years ago is tat y? Dude makes 10 mill a year or something... and i believe the highest payed player on our team, with jose comin a close second but his contract isnt crippling the team or anything and isnt a bad contract either compared to Turk.

Seriously i dont get y we get these trade andrea threads so often. Don't get me wrong if a good trade with some first round picks comes along for him then sure y (not that BC gonna do tat ) not but otherwise y are we complaining

Is he hurting out team rly bad when he plays? Do we suddenly become title contenders when he doesnt play?

Dude doesnt complain, doesnt have an attitude, doesnt get injured consistently and seems very professional yet people complain. Can we juss not complain let the year finish out see wat the draft gives us or something instead.

[Matt52]

As long as Bargnani is on the Raptors roster he will eat minutes and the Raptors will be outscored way too often when he is on the court as compared to when he is not.

I assume this is based on the last 5 games of which they have lost 4.

If you look at the loss vs NYK when he had 41, he was minus 8. Look at tonight, he is minus 15.

But in a loss to the Nuggets he was even when most of the other starters were minus double digits.

Versus DET he was minus 1 when DD and WEems were minus 15 and 20.

VS OKC he is +17 when Amir is +7 and JC+8.

OR how about the loss vs. BOS when he is minus 6 and the rest of the starters are minus 19, 18, 13, and 22?

Better yet, how about the win vs. BOS when he is +6 and all the other starters are minus 13, 18, 2, and 19?

Bargnani doesn't need to and shouldn't be traded. Bargnani and the rest of the team need to get better. It is quite easy to pick any player on a lottery bound team and say that player gets out scored when he is on the court - especially the team's leading minutes played.

[Buddahfan]

Nah, it's OK Buddah. Your entitled to your opinion. Even if it is wrong.

I have been wrong many times in my life and will continue to be wrong many more times as I expect to live for many more years.

You may need a computer to keep track if you are so inclined.

Trade Bargnani now.

[bleeding_raptor]

Wow some people who keep hatin' on bargnani have no lives what so ever. The guy is a matchup problem for almost every team in the league. He draws double teams, and is the only guy who can do that on this team, and doesn't buckle under pressure. Why do i say this, not because hes tied the game in the last few minutes with 3's versus both and pistons and the knicks, but he has YOU fake raptor fans hatin' on him and still manage to score 21 ppg and hasn't even reached his ceiling yet. Based on his draft class, we could have drafted a Shelden williams or Adam morrison maybe you guys would rather take those guys? Bargnani was right passing on B-roy because he knew he was an injury risk as he is right now, and Aldridge is an over-paid player who has reached his ceiling as an 18-8 type of player which isn't bad, but not for the money he received. Andrea has a lot of demand on the trade market and I would only like a trade if BC was blown away. Other than that, I would not trade il mago.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Y do we have these hate Bargs discussions?

I dont get y? he got drafted number one a few years ago is tat y? Dude makes 10 mill a year or something... and i believe the highest payed player on our team, with jose comin a close second but his contract isnt crippling the team or anything and isnt a bad contract either compared to Turk.

Seriously i dont get y we get these trade andrea threads so often. Don't get me wrong if a good trade with some first round picks comes along for him then sure y (not that BC gonna do tat ) not but otherwise y are we complaining

Is he hurting out team rly bad when he plays? Do we suddenly become title contenders when he doesnt play?

Dude doesnt complain, doesnt have an attitude, doesnt get injured consistently and seems very professional yet people complain. Can we juss not complain let the year finish out see wat the draft gives us or something instead.

From what I've heard and read he's also a heard worked on top of what you said. I agree with you, I don't see why people hate him.

[Buddahfan]

I assume this is based on the last 5 games of which they have lost 4.

If you look at the loss vs NYK when he had 41, he was minus 8. Look at tonight, he is minus 15.

But in a loss to the Nuggets he was even when most of the other starters were minus double digits.

Versus DET he was minus 1 when DD and WEems were minus 15 and 20.

VS OKC he is +17 when Amir is +7 and JC+8.

OR how about the loss vs. BOS when he is minus 6 and the rest of the starters are minus 19, 18, 13, and 22?

Better yet, how about the win vs. BOS when he is +6 and all the other starters are minus 13, 18, 2, and 19?

Bargnani doesn't need to and shouldn't be traded. Bargnani and the rest of the team need to get better. It is quite easy to pick any player on a lottery bound team and say that player gets out scored when he is on the court - especially the team's leading minutes played.

No its based on watching him play over the last two seasons and the data from website like basketballvalue.com and 82games.com

Players Ratings Sort Worst to Best 2009-10 and 2010-11 through yesterday - Picture stops after Bargnani

1 Year Unadjusted Ratings column.

8th worst in the league this season



12th worst in the league last season.

[bleeding_raptor]

The +/- statistic is one of the stupidest stats. There is a reason why analysts never talk about it. Only hater fans try to implement it to try and support their weak arguments. You don't blame one player for defense, rather the entire team for it. Raptor fans love to hate on the good players but love the bum ones who can't win games for you. This is why you guys will always remain fans and no where near teams unless its as a garbage man. Because you'd have starting lineups as Jake Voshkul, Pops Mensau- Bonsu, Reggie Evans, Derrick Martin, and Sonny Weems. Yes their hustle players, and you can appreciate that, but when you SUCK, what else can you really do but try? Sumtin' to think about.

[Matt52]

No its based on watching him play over the last two seasons and the data from website like basketballvalue.com and 82games.com

Players Ratings Sort Worst to Best 2009-10 and 2010-11 through yesterday - Picture stops after Bargnani

1 Year Unadjusted Ratings column.

8th worst in the league this season



12th worst in the league last season.

Further proof one can use stats to show anything. Give me the match up problems Bargnani creates with some solid perimeter defenders playing with him over trading the guy any day.

[Buddahfan]

The +/- statistic is one of the stupidest stats. There is a reason why analysts never talk about it. Only hater fans try to implement it to try and support their weak arguments. You don't blame one player for defense, rather the entire team for it. Raptor fans love to hate on the good players but love the bum ones who can't win games for you. This is why you guys will always remain fans and no where near teams unless its as a garbage man. Because you'd have starting lineups as Jake Voshkul, Pops Mensau- Bonsu, Reggie Evans, Derrick Martin, and Sonny Weems. Yes their hustle players, and you can appreciate that, but when you SUCK, what else can you really do but try? Sumtin' to think about.

Of course it doesn't matter if your team is constantly outscored when you are on the court.

Lets change the rules of the game.

Team with most missed shots wins.

In addition when you are one of the wost in the league and the worst or second worst on your team there is a problem especially when you start.

[Buddahfan]

Further proof one can use stats to show anything. Give me the match up problems Bargnani creates with some solid perimeter defenders playing with him over trading the guy any day.

The Raptors over the last two seasons are outscored by more per 100 possessions when he is on the court than any other Raptors starter.

The only match-up problem is that he can't outplay the likes of M. Mohammed or anyone better than Mohammed except in a fluke game or two.

[DoNDaDDa]

i dont really like bargs.. never did... but if we were to get a "REAL" STARTING CALIBUR" Center to offset Bargs Shotty D... then im all for keeping Bargs....If not then TRADE HIM! ....LOL

[MaGIX]

buddafan buy a punching bag venting on a board doesn't relief stress
and stop trading andrea at 8.5 mil he's a bargain at the moment

[Apollo]

I really need to add a "yawns" smilie because another trade Andrea thread is getting old Buddah.



+1 ...... But I'd part with Weems long before DeMar. (ie see my Weems rant)

These "trade the guy now!!!" threads, after one bad game, are all getting old in general.

[Maleko]

buddafan buy a punching bag venting on a board doesn't relief stress
and stop trading andrea at 8.5 mil he's a bargain at the moment

I would add that I believe his trade value is half that in NBA terms due to a base year contract exception or something like that so in reality all you would get back is a $4mil player and that is not enough return.

But don't accuse me of being a fan of bargnani. The guy is lazier than a past date limp cucumber most nights. About as soft too.

[sleepz]

(Yawn)

In the immortal words of Denny Green, this team is what I thought it was. They are a young team that might have talent that are going to be wildly inconsistent and anyone waiting for Bargnani to be a 'franchise player' will have to keep waiting. No one needs to be traded or moved or shot or whatever. Right now, they just aren't a good team. Whether it's because they need time because they are young or just not talented, we'll just have to see. I suspect it is the latter, but whatever. What I suspect this game confirms however is that if Bargnani isn't scoring, he's not exactly helping the team win in different ways and that's something a franchise player (hell, even a Carlos Boozer type player) can do.

What WAS interesting is that they built a lead in the first half with a Davis-Johnson-DeRozan-Weems-Bayless lineup and while the next time they were out there they didn't look so hot, I have a weird feeling that could be a decent lineup in the future.

And I can't wait until I hear the "See how Calderon is so valuable to this team" chatter, because if he was playing, he would obviously help prevent the likes of Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed getting deep post position....

I alos noticed that line-up was effective last night and Triano went right back to it at the end of the 2nd quarter. The intensity picked up considerably when those players were on the floor together.

[Balls of Steel]

I didn't watch the game last night and while in the restaurant have dinner, I promptly checked the score with 2:44 left in the last quarter. After seeing Nazr Mohammed leading the team in scoring and rebounds, I had one conclusion... Bargs did not eat his magic banana during half time. Can I switch back to my old Avatar?