Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[Matt52]

Joey: Whatever the Raps paid to buy out Peja goes against the salary cap for this year. Payroll is still around $65/66M.

[Tim W.]

We just lost $14 mil of our Salary... Our Team salary now sits at around $52mil... So no.. we are not.

Just because some impatient fans want him traded doesn't mean he will be traded. I think most people would still like to see Bargs do well as a Rap.

And I do want my team to do well. And I am not 'Happy' with my team losing either. But I also understand that bitching about it isn't going to do a damn thing. So instead I take it for what it is. Every sport has bad teams. Right now we are bad. Soon, we will be goodish. Then we might even be really good. But then we'll be bad again. And the cycle continues.
I just enjoy the sport and I enjoy the personalities that are our team. IF they are traded, then I will support the incoming faces. But until then, I DON'T think that these threads are all that indicative of a supportive fan. A true SUPPORTER, in my opinion anyway, wishes to well with what we have, and leaves the behind the scenes bullshit to the Suits. Threads like these make one look as if they want changes NOW because we got our asses kicked.
We SUCK! Get over it. Give it time. It's a process. One that isn't helped by trading your leading scorer.

No, the Raptors didn't "lose" $14 million in salary. Buyouts don't affect the amount the team has against the cap. If a team buys out a player with two years left on his contract, they are still "on the books" for the salary for the length of the contract, as far as the salary cap is concerned.

And I was content with the team being bad since before the season started. No trade is going to make them good. But what I want is for the team to have the right pieces to build a winner in the future. Due to his inability to defend and rebound, that doesn't include Bargnani. With Bargnani playing a bigger role on the team because of lack of talent, his stats are currently inflated, which hopefully increases his trade value. Rebuilding requires the team to trade players, they don't want to keep, at the height of their trade value. Personally, I wanted to trade him this past summer before his defensive deficiencies became so glaringly obvious to the rest of the league.

I also don't think you really have the right to tell other people how a true fan should behave. Fans are not an automaton who may only act one way and enjoy the same thing. I, personally, like playing the GM and trying to figure out what I would do to improve the team. To me, team building is fascinating. That's part of why I follow the NBA. You may not enjoy that aspect but you don't have a right to tell me that I shouldn't enjoy it.

[minks77]

For the record, I was all for trading him about 30 seconds after his 41 point night. In fact I've been all for trading him for the past 3 years. It has nothing to do with what he could be, potential wise (smooth scorer/ offensive mismatch) and EVERYTHING to do with what he is NOT EVER GOING TO BE:

1) a decent post defender
2) a decent rebounder
3) a 7 foot, 250 lb post presence on either end

If there are really all kinds of teams out there willing to trade for AB in a flash, well maybe that's why there are really only 4, who are year-in, year-out contenders (Spurs, LAL, Celtics, Bulls) and I can't see any of them making room for Bargs.

Even as a hater, I wouldn't send him to Portland though. He already has bad knees and we all know what happens to big men with bad knees in the Rose city.

[joey_hesketh]

I also don't think you really have the right to tell other people how a true fan should behave. Fans are not an automaton who may only act one way and enjoy the same thing. I, personally, like playing the GM and trying to figure out what I would do to improve the team. To me, team building is fascinating. That's part of why I follow the NBA. You may not enjoy that aspect but you don't have a right to tell me that I shouldn't enjoy it.

You're right. I agree and I apologize. Perhaps I just got a little perturbed at yet ANOTHER Trade Bargs post, is all.

[minks77]

You're right. I agree and I apologize. Perhaps I just got a little perturbed at yet ANOTHER Trade Bargs post, is all.

That's what's funny to me. The supporters of a controversial player HATE to see their dude discredited or beat up on. I can understand that. I like Jose and hated the constant Jose bashing threads so I stopped reading them. Simple.

I'd venture to guess that most threads are redundant, you just happen to not like the theme of these ones so stop clicking on em. It's an 82 game season, almost everything that we'll be discussing in g 82 will have been discussed in depth many times before.

[Tim W.]

You're right. I agree and I apologize. Perhaps I just got a little perturbed at yet ANOTHER Trade Bargs post, is all.

No problem. I wasn't actually offended, or anything. I don't blame you for getting tired of the same arguments coming up over and over again. That's why I tend to post only in spurts here and then disappear for a while. There are only so many different ways you can formulate the same argument before you start going insane.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Another thread? There's a thread like this every time he has a bad game.

Trading him won't improve anything, because we won't be able to get anything back which is better than him. If there is a good trade involving Bargnani which improves this team, then yeah. But no one has been able to find a trade which both teams would accept and would make us any better.

I think its a prerequisite to make a thread after ever bad game.

[Tim W.]

No way Golden STate goes for that (they're very high on Curry), and the salaries don't work at all. Golden would be taking back WAY more salary. And the TPE only works going the OTHER way. It would allow the Raptors to take on more salary, not the other way around.

You know what? I was wrong. You CAN use the TPE exception in a deal to get Curry, and I just read they are now open to trading him. Here's an example of something that would work....
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4uydrzj

I'm not saying it's a trade that either team would accept, but it works because of the TPE.

[joey_hesketh]

You know what? I was wrong. You CAN use the TPE exception in a deal to get Curry, and I just read they are now open to trading him. Here's an example of something that would work....
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4uydrzj

I'm not saying it's a trade that either team would accept, but it works because of the TPE.

They'd probably want Jose over Bayless, as Jose beside Monta would be LETHAL. But I'd do it. Stephen loves Toronto and Andris is very a solid center.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4uh8a47
Both Reggie and Vlad would give us some outside scoring at the SF position.

DISCLAIMER:
Again, I don't condone trading Bargs.... But I wanted in on the fun.

[Tim W.]

They'd probably want Jose over Bayless, as Jose beside Monta would be LETHAL. But I'd do it. Stephen loves Toronto and Andris is very a solid center.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4uh8a47
Both Reggie and Vlad would give us some outside scoring at the SF position.

DISCLAIMER:
Again, I don't condone trading Bargs.... But I wanted in on the fun.

I have a couple of proposals on the other thread I like better. The one above was just to illustrate how the TPE would work.

And I actually think they'd rather have Bayless for a couple of reasons. One is that Bayless is a lot cheaper, and also because Bayless can play more off the ball. As we've seen, Jose needs the ball to be effective, and that's the major problem with playing Curry and Ellis together. Both need the ball.

[joey_hesketh]

I have a couple of proposals on the other thread I like better. The one above was just to illustrate how the TPE would work.

And I actually think they'd rather have Bayless for a couple of reasons. One is that Bayless is a lot cheaper, and also because Bayless can play more off the ball. As we've seen, Jose needs the ball to be effective, and that's the major problem with playing Curry and Ellis together. Both need the ball.

Well Jose only needs the ball so he can pass it and get the assist to Monta, Bargnani or David Lee.
Curry was at his best when allowing Monta to be the #1 scorer and him playing off of the defense focusing on Monta.

But ya I saw those. More or less the same. Or one was anyway.

[JoePanini]

They'd probably want Jose over Bayless, as Jose beside Monta would be LETHAL. But I'd do it. Stephen loves Toronto and Andris is very a solid center.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4uh8a47
Both Reggie and Vlad would give us some outside scoring at the SF position.

DISCLAIMER:
Again, I don't condone trading Bargs.... But I wanted in on the fun.

That's actually a really good trade. If Biedrins is healthy he can be a really good center. This is one of the few trades involving Bargnani which I actually like. We get a good young PG, a good defensive center. And we on top of that, we get a scoring wing. That's literally everything we need, for now. I wonder if GS would consider the trade. Bargnani and Jose would really suit their style of play...

[ibzilla]

I know he's dealt with a lot of injuries but so has every team in the league. His coaching decisions are confusing and his players don't play hard for him (especially on D). But placing a slow-footed center on the fastest forward in the league is a fire-able offense. I understand they needed the offense as they were trying to make a comeback in the 4th quarter and Julian Wright is a liability on that end, but you CAN NOT make a comeback if you don't get stops. Allowing Bargnani to cover Lebron is a guaranteed bucket for Miami so unless you are getting a 3 for every Lebron basket it will eliminate any comeback. I watch a lot of the NBA and this is one of the worst decisions I've seen all year. Anyone who thinks that Triano deserves another chance because of the lack of talent and injuries should watch how he handles how he coaches these guys. I don't know the stat but I'm sure they are up there in defensive 3 second violations.

[Frankthetank]

Tim W just because you write a blog doesn't give you the right to be an arse. You continued to be short sighted and blame everything on andrea. You must be 23 years old because your hole tiraad against ANdrea is juvenille. DO you think we're any better of a team without ANdrea? So this campaign of trading ANdrea is stupid.
The fact is this was a rebuilding year and with all the injuries that have hit a Toronto its no suprise that the raptors have hit a wall. I'm tired of you and your gang of instant gratitude hipocrits. THe fact it is better for the team to crap the bed and get a good draft pick. So you and your cronnies can go suck it

[Matt52]

I agree wtih the premise but the Raps only had 8 warm bodies last night. Wright started out on LeBron and that didn't go to well either. I don't think Bargnani was the answer either. The team is struggling anyways and with all the injuries they are bad - what else is there to say?

[Frankthetank]

We would suck with curry and beidreis on the team (our front line wouldn't have a guy who wieghed more then 230 pounds What a F__kin joke). This spin a trade dial is for 2 year olds.

[Frankthetank]

BLahhhblahhh bllahaha maybe you arses can make up more retarded things

[Stahmenah_Vybz]

I agree wtih the premise but the Raps only had 8 warm bodies last night. Wright started out on LeBron and that didn't go to well either. I don't think Bargnani was the answer either. The team is struggling anyways and with all the injuries they are bad - what else is there to say?

8 warm bodies, so explain why Alabi did not get to see the court? Give him some minutes to get someone else a rest. No excuse for Triano. Been enough all year so far. A coach needs to coach to let the guys know that they will not start if they don't play hard. Point made!

[Matt52]

8 warm bodies, so explain why Alabi did not get to see the court? Give him some minutes to get someone else a rest. No excuse for Triano. Been enough all year so far. A coach needs to coach to let the guys know that they will not start if they don't play hard. Point made!

Alabi on James? Surely you do not mean that. But you are right, he could have played.

Alabi does not deserve to be on the court because did you not see the game vs ORL? He played awful. I think JT has a point made to Alabi. Also, the Raps actually did not quit and got themselves back to single digits in the 4th quarter. It turned back in to a 20 point game in the final 3 minutes.

Bottom line: after Alabi's showing vs ORL, he deserved to be on the pine, IMO.

[Balls of Steel]

It was a head scratcher and a joke. One play where LBJ went to the baseline with Bargs covering him, Calderon went in for the help and he scored and had an and 1. Armstrong was all over the call because Calderon never touched LeBron. It was a joke with those two on defense. As far as I'm concerned, Triano is nothing more than a summer league coach. He's there to ensure that our record stays as bad as it is and BC is here to keep it that way. Once this franchise drafts a few good players both BC and Triano will not be here going forward. It's like JP Ricciardi leaving with Anthopolous at the helm to carry the ball forward.

This franchise will have a new coach and a new GM moving forward. At least, I hope so.