Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[Raptor4Ever]

If andrea was paid like a franchise player I would agree with all you naysayers to trade him. THe fact that he makes less then 10 million a year makes him untouchable. He is meant to be a second option on a good team. The raptors still have a chance to draft a first option or develop one in Demar. THis nonsense to trade andrea at 25 years old is stupid and sounds alot like Memphis getting rid of Paul Gasol. Memphis hasn't made the playoffs in three seasons and the lakers have a chance to make 4 straight finals with Gasol. WHo ever gets andrea will benefit greatly from him maturing into a stud like Gasol did.
Instant gratitude gets you now where. Blaming a team problem on one player gets you now where. THe raptors are just physically over matched most nights and you guys as fans are in denial. Thats why a guy like corey maggette kills us because we don't have a wing player strong enough to stop him. MOst of the top teams are phsyically mature and have average age of 29.

+1000

[Balls of Steel]

Thats why a guy like corey maggette kills us because we don't have a wing player strong enough to stop him. MOst of the top teams are phsyically mature and have average age of 29.

Dude, you just contradicted yourself by shifting the blame away from Andrea to DeMar. Bargs as a BYC player, and 25 years old with a knack for scoring IS the reason to trade him. That is his value!!!! When do we consider unloading him, when he's 30 with bad knees and down to 3 rebounds a game? BC has to listen to offers no matter or wherever it is coming from.

BC + Triano + Bargs = Top three. I'm done bitching about those three. All I personally care for as a fan is for this team to do worse than Cleveland. If anything, it would be nice for this losing streak to last til the trade deadline so that we know who to really keep.

PS> New Jersey is in the same boat as the Raps because they too have a super soft center in Brook Lopez. That team ain't going nowhere with him in the middle.

[Captain Haddock]

I had them at 17-22 wins this season, so rather predictably, we have become one of the worst teams in the NBA. This was never going to be a good year for us, and I don't think we need to fire/trade/blow anything up right now. As is, we've got some very young people being forced to learn on the fly and that often means losing in a terrible fashion, with the hope we might get better through personnel development and drafting some high level talent. Another poster brought up OKC the other day, which I have always thought was the best way to do it. Even with KD and Jeff Green, they were absolute rubbish in Seattle. It took some time (and the removal of PJ, which is a cheap shot because if there's one thing PJ is known for it is being a good assistant who enjoys teaching but is a crap head coach), but the team is starting to gel, and their dismal failures allowed them to acquire Westbrook, Harden, et al. Tanking doesn't guarantee a top pick, but it helps and that's what we need to do. A couple of years of crap can hopefully yield us good, consistent results down the line. As is, in this draft there's also the cloud of the CBA looming so it's unfortunate the situation we're in, but we have to stick the course. No more cheap, quick fixes, get high picks, draft young players, give Jay a chance to iron out his deficiencies as well, and accept the fact that we are rubbish and that isn't always a bad thing.

[Frankthetank]

Fact is without evans and an injured Dorsey the raptors are the weakest (physical)team in the NBA. The NBA is a mans league and strength is one of the deciding factors between being a good team and a bad team. Miami, Orlando, Boston, Lakers have strength advantages at every position compared to the raptors. THis is why a team like Detroit can beat the raptors because they isolate and post up at positions with strenth advantages. THis then makes the raptors have to help out on almost every possession. Which then exposes their weak team defense which enhances Andreas biggest weakness team defense. If in two years we're still shatt then trade him.
The most important person on the raptors right now is the STRENTH AND CONDITIONING COACH.

[Raptor4Ever]

That was supposed to be Bargnani according to all you delusional nuthuggers but we've seen how that turned out.

That was never suppose to be Bargnani and this is why he is getting paied less than 10 million NOW. Barg was suppose to be the 2nd option for this team but since BC fucked up, he tried to brand him suddenly as a future and the YOUNG ONZ as a big part of future but everyone knows that was just a marketing BS which worked on some of the fans.

[Frankthetank]

Your the one blaming DeMar. I'm blaming the wing positions their are 4 guys who play those two positions. Wright is our best defender but really is too weak to guard any of the proven wing players. If you take out evans or dorsey do you think anyone on the team could bench over 250 pounds? When the raptors players become men thats when we will compete.

Dude, you just contradicted yourself by shifting the blame away from Andrea to DeMar. Bargs as a BYC player, and 25 years old with a knack for scoring IS the reason to trade him. That is his value!!!! When do we consider unloading him, when he's 30 with bad knees and down to 3 rebounds a game? BC has to listen to offers no matter or wherever it is coming from.

BC + Triano + Bargs = Top three. I'm done bitching about those three. All I personally care for as a fan is for this team to do worse than Cleveland. If anything, it would be nice for this losing streak to last til the trade deadline so that we know who to really keep.

PS> New Jersey is in the same boat as the Raps because they too have a super soft center in Brook Lopez. That team ain't going nowhere with him in the middle.

[Frankthetank]

ITs not just the wing position its every position that stinks on defense.

[Matt52]

If anything, it would be nice for this losing streak to last til the trade deadline so that we know who to really keep.

PS> New Jersey is in the same boat as the Raps because they too have a super soft center in Brook Lopez. That team ain't going nowhere with him in the middle.

Yes, I am eagerly awaiting the trade deadline. I hope salary is shed and a draft pick and young player or two is brought back in return.

On NJ, good point. Lopez has regressed this year - big time. Yes Bogut abused Bargnani for 24 points, 7 rebs, and 4 blocks but he had 17/18/7 versus NJ.

[minks77]

If andrea was paid like a franchise player I would agree with all you naysayers to trade him. THe fact that he makes less then 10 million a year makes him untouchable. He is meant to be a second option on a good team. The raptors still have a chance to draft a first option or develop one in Demar. THis nonsense to trade andrea at 25 years old is stupid and sounds alot like Memphis getting rid of Paul Gasol. Memphis hasn't made the playoffs in three seasons and the lakers have a chance to make 4 straight finals with Gasol. WHo ever gets andrea will benefit greatly from him maturing into a stud like Gasol did.
Instant gratitude gets you now where. Blaming a team problem on one player gets you now where. THe raptors are just physically over matched most nights and you guys as fans are in denial. Thats why a guy like corey maggette kills us because we don't have a wing player strong enough to stop him. MOst of the top teams are phsyically mature and have average age of 29.

Although I agree that in a rebuilding year losing is a "good" thing (with an eye to the draft of course) I disagree vehemently with your comparison of Pau Gasol to Andrea Bragnani. Pau was never known for being a lock down defensive centre but he's light years ahead of Andrea in that regard. Pau is also an all world low post player, an excellent rebounder and a damn good passer. He has a very high BBall IQ and he took shit Memphis teams to the playoffs 4 years straight. Never won a game I know, but factor in the competition level for just a moment. Gasol didn't mature into a stud as you imply, he was an all world stud in Memphis on a team that without him was beyond terrible. People have this tendency to think that he suddenly developed in LA which simply isn't true. Look at his body of work, from Spain to Memphis to LA.

Now look at Andrea. He's allergic to rebounds and defence. His low post offense is a mess (establishing position for AB seems to be backing his guy down from 15+ feet out), his 3 point shooting is terribly overrated and he doesn't do anything if he isn't scoring. No hustle, no heart, no pride. After 5 years in the L he is what he is. Factor in apparently bad knees (alarm bells should be going off, 7 foot 250 lbers with bad knees? Not good at all) and some truly copperfield-esque disappearances and you are sitting on a bust.

This isn't about instant gratitude for many of us. It's about seeing a guy who is such a defensive liability in the post that you'll never stand a chance against a real frontline in the playoffs. Heck, forget the playoffs and go back to watch Darko and Marc eat him alive. Go back and watch Bogut destroy him in overtime. Go watch Earl Monroe and JMax and a 90 year old Ben Wallace get whatever they want. You cannot consistently win basketball games in the NBA with so little reactive force in the post.

He doesn't bring anything to this team other than the occasional Jumper which is the ultimate foolsgold. As long as he is a key player the Raps will continue to be a soft jump shooting team. Good enough to be mediocre some years, usually not bad enough to benefit. He NEEDS to go.

[Matt52]

As for Bryan Colangelo's love affair with Andrea...dude wake up..u made mistake..u have 2 let him go. Move on and fix this franchise...

P.S

I don't mind when I know franchise is no good,and putting up an effort and eventualy it will get better,but honestly if Bargnani stays,it will never get better!!!

The D-day (decision day) is coming for Bargnani, no doubt. BC has admitted many mistakes in the past. If the days comes when he feels Bargnani is not part of the future or he can't win with him, Bargnani is gone. It would seem to me that given his salary he is not a number one option in BC's eyes. Unfortunately for Bargnani he is the number 1 option this year and he is taking a lot of slack because of it. Here is to hoping Bargnani gets a star to ride the coat tails of next year.

[minks77]

oh, one more point:

You are 100% right that you can't blame one player for a teams struggles. There is alot of blame to go round. I do not see anyway that this team can hold onto Bargs and actually get better. He may look great on some other team but he isn't contributing enough to justify keeping him around here for the next 3-4 years while the rest of the team develops. He is too big a piece to shelve and not good enough to build around so BC & co will be running around plugging holes and trying to hide him when they really would expedite the rebuilding process without such a terribly flawed, incomplete player like AB taking up so much focus.

[nubreed000]

Can we have a third choice ? BC

this

Colangelo should've been let go instead of sam mitchell

[Balls of Steel]

oh, one more point:

You are 100% right that you can't blame one player for a teams struggles. There is alot of blame to go round. I do not see anyway that this team can hold onto Bargs and actually get better. He may look great on some other team but he isn't contributing enough to justify keeping him around here for the next 3-4 years while the rest of the team develops. He is too big a piece to shelve and not good enough to build around so BC & co will be running around plugging holes and trying to hide him when they really would expedite the rebuilding process without such a terribly flawed, incomplete player like AB taking up so much focus.

How come so many few people get this? It's not just him but his impact on the team. He plays major minutes and major shots but doesn't have anyone else's defensive responsibilities. AB7 should have his hands on the oar as well. He is after all, a part of the team. Will the Raps unfold once again to have discord within its locker room like last season? How long can this go?

PS> If Bargs looks good on other teams (as many Barg lovers are saying ironically), then BC MAKE IT HAPPEN before his stock plummets! minks77, thank you for not drinking the Barney Kool-Aid.

[Frankthetank]

buddy your obsessed with andrea. When ever an observer obsesses over one player on a five player game he loses his objectivity. And you obviously have. I watch more basketball that isn't the raptors then I do the raptors. ANdrea is a 4 not a 5 so all you retards who say trade him because he isnt a defensive 5 will shut up.

Although I agree that in a rebuilding year losing is a "good" thing (with an eye to the draft of course) I disagree vehemently with your comparison of Pau Gasol to Andrea Bragnani. Pau was never known for being a lock down defensive centre but he's light years ahead of Andrea in that regard. Pau is also an all world low post player, an excellent rebounder and a damn good passer. He has a very high BBall IQ and he took shit Memphis teams to the playoffs 4 years straight. Never won a game I know, but factor in the competition level for just a moment. Gasol didn't mature into a stud as you imply, he was an all world stud in Memphis on a team that without him was beyond terrible. People have this tendency to think that he suddenly developed in LA which simply isn't true. Look at his body of work, from Spain to Memphis to LA.

Now look at Andrea. He's allergic to rebounds and defence. His low post offense is a mess (establishing position for AB seems to be backing his guy down from 15+ feet out), his 3 point shooting is terribly overrated and he doesn't do anything if he isn't scoring. No hustle, no heart, no pride. After 5 years in the L he is what he is. Factor in apparently bad knees (alarm bells should be going off, 7 foot 250 lbers with bad knees? Not good at all) and some truly copperfield-esque disappearances and you are sitting on a bust.

This isn't about instant gratitude for many of us. It's about seeing a guy who is such a defensive liability in the post that you'll never stand a chance against a real frontline in the playoffs. Heck, forget the playoffs and go back to watch Darko and Marc eat him alive. Go back and watch Bogut destroy him in overtime. Go watch Earl Monroe and JMax and a 90 year old Ben Wallace get whatever they want. You cannot consistently win basketball games in the NBA with so little reactive force in the post.

He doesn't bring anything to this team other than the occasional Jumper which is the ultimate foolsgold. As long as he is a key player the Raps will continue to be a soft jump shooting team. Good enough to be mediocre some years, usually not bad enough to benefit. He NEEDS to go.

[Balls of Steel]

buddy your obsessed with andrea. When ever an observer obsesses over one player on a five player game he loses his objectivity. And you obviously have. I watch more basketball that isn't the raptors then I do the raptors. ANdrea is a 4 not a 5 so all you retards who say trade him because he isnt a defensive 5 will shut up.

So what you're saying was we could've won the game last night had Bargs been on Kevin Love all night long (and Ersan Ilyasova the night before, and Randolph too against Memphis). Gotcha!

[bballnut27]

Can we say trade him because his defence sucks for a 4?
doesnt matter what position he plays, his defence is still terrible.

[Junior]

There is all this talk of trading Dre, but I have yet to see a discussion of what we could actually get in return. At this point I can't really fathom a team who would want him bad enough to offer us anything of value for him. What sensible GM would actually want this guy?

(But honestly, I would take anything to get him off the team. I can't imagine a worse player to have when developing young talent. He is not only the antithesis of a good center and demands that every other player be largely excluded from the offense, but he is also a horrible role model for young players in that he has zero heart. We should be taking full advantage of this season to develop DeMar, Ed, Amir and Jerryd, but Andrea is literally the best hinderance this league has to offer to said development.)

[Tim W.]

That was never suppose to be Bargnani and this is why he is getting paied less than 10 million NOW. Barg was suppose to be the 2nd option for this team but since BC fucked up, he tried to brand him suddenly as a future and the YOUNG ONZ as a big part of future but everyone knows that was just a marketing BS which worked on some of the fans.

It's Colangelo's fault that Bargnani is a horrible defensive player and doesn't rebound and can't seem to contribute outside of scoring?

NO ONE CARES WHETHER HE IS THE FRANCHISE PLAYER OR NOT!!!! People don't like players that don't give an effort on defense or can't seem to rebound for their size. If Bargnani was the third option, he would still be a horrible defensive player and below average rebounder while contributing nothing but scoring. The difference is that more people notice the faults when he's the main player. There were, however, plenty of people that have noticed the faults for the last 4.5 years, it's just that many figured he would improved on them.

[Raptor4Ever]

It's Colangelo's fault that Bargnani is a horrible defensive player and doesn't rebound and can't seem to contribute outside of scoring?

.

LOOOLL, Again, too simple of logic.

It is BC's fault that he has not forced AB to stay here over summer to work with coaches.
It is BC's fault that he is not allowin Jay to hold AB accountable when he blows his defensive assignment.
It is BC's fault that he has players that can not complement each other on the floor.

It is BC's fault that he defends the lack of rebound of AB infront of the Reporters.
It is BC's fault that glrifies Amir Johnson while the guy clearly did not even learn one post move over the last 5 years.

The list goes on and on and ...... but again, you are just too bias, too blind with hate for one player that you can not see it.

It is like you are buing a car that has a major engine problems but you are focusing on little paints chips on the car

[WhatWhat]

Such excellent trolling.