Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

[minks77]

buddy your obsessed with andrea. When ever an observer obsesses over one player on a five player game he loses his objectivity. And you obviously have. I watch more basketball that isn't the raptors then I do the raptors. ANdrea is a 4 not a 5 so all you retards who say trade him because he isnt a defensive 5 will shut up.

I don't give a sht whether he is a 4, a 5, a 3 on offense or whatever. The negatives to his game outweigh the benefits especially as this team starts to get better (hopefully) over the next few years. Andrea simply isn't dominant enough in what he does well to make up for what he does poorly.

You can say I've lost my objectivity. You're right. When it comes to Andrea I think he's got to go. I don't love his offense and view the rest of his so called game as HIGHLY suspect.

As for watching oh-so-many non raps games, what does that proove? Are you the only one with a cable package around here? I've been watching basketball for 20 years. I'm a fan of the game first and foremost and am slightly obsessed with the history of the game as well. I know my ball. So before going around implying how much you know why not go back to your first comment where you compared AB to Pau. Go back into the history of Pau's game to show us all how poor a player he was in Memphis, I mean you must of had league pass and then too, no?

BTW, I consider myself obsessed over the Raps. Period, point blank. I know way too much about all of them. Just so happens that Andrea sparks the most vitriol in me. You can dismiss my POV but if you can barely cobble together a coherent sentence in reply then maybe you need to shut up.

Oh, and you aren't my buddy nor do I suffer from any forms of mental handicaps. Unless there's one out there that prevents me from seeing AB's greatness.

[Raptor4Ever]

Such excellent trolling.

so insightful. If someone does not agree with you and blames it ALL on AB, then he is a troll.

Let me see if I change to a Basketball expert in the eyes od whatwhat

Not only all the Raptor Problems are AB's fault and the toxic effect of his presence, but by trading him the world hunger, Air polution and problems with terrorisims will all be solved

How is that whatwhat

[Raptor4Ever]

buddy your obsessed with andrea. When ever an observer obsesses over one player on a five player game he loses his objectivity. And you obviously have. I watch more basketball that isn't the raptors then I do the raptors. ANdrea is a 4 not a 5 so all you retards who say trade him because he isnt a defensive 5 will shut up.

Words of Wisdom. You should post here more often.

[Tim W.]

LOOOLL, Again, too simple of logic.

It is BC's fault that he has not forced AB to stay here over summer to work with coaches.
It is BC's fault that he is not allowin Jay to hold AB accountable when he blows his defensive assignment.
It is BC's fault that he has players that can not complement each other on the floor.

It is BC's fault that he defends the lack of rebound of AB infront of the Reporters.
It is BC's fault that glrifies Amir Johnson while the guy clearly did not even learn one post move over the last 5 years.

The list goes on and on and ...... but again, you are just too bias, too blind with hate for one player that you can not see it.

It is like you are buing a car that has a major engine problems but you are focusing on little paints chips on the car

Why does Colangelo need to FORCE Bargnani do anything that will improve his game? Shouldn't Bargnani want to do those things on his own? And Colangelo hired Moses Malone for Bargnani two summers ago, but most summers, Bargnani insists on playing for the National team.

Sure, Triano should hold Bargnani more accountable, but to blame Triano for Bargnani for not caring about something that he should is a little ridiculous.

The team is pretty bad and the record shows that. Colangelo is getting plenty of blame for that. But what does that have to do with the criticism of Bargnani?

I fail to understand what Colangelo defending Bargnani's rebounding means anything except that Colangelo knows how to lie to reporters?

Colangelo paid Amir $3 million less than Bargnani, and he has a more positive contribution on the court. Your assertion that Amir hasn't learned a post move in 5 years is not only false (have you actually watched him), it also shows that you care more about offense than anything else. Noah makes more money than Bargnani, but doesn't have much of a post game. Loads of big men have little post game but earn at least as much or more than Amir. Do you know why? Because they contribute a lot more than scoring.

And the major engine problem is Bargnani. You need a new engine. You need to trade Bargnani. Then you can focus on everything else.

[WhatWhat]

How is that whatwhat

9.5/10

Don't forget AIDS and cancer, moving Bargnani will cure those too.

[Roarque]

A proposal for 2011:

- pick the youngsters you want to develop and play them lots
- start the game with the old guys so they get to be "starters"
ie Reggie, Leandro, Linus, Mago and Jose for Q1
- then let the young guys defend the lead
ie Davis, DeRosen, Ajinca, Bayless and Wright for Q2
- then let the young guys go on offense after recess
ie Johnson, DeRosen, Weems, Ajinca and Calderone for Q3
- then let Jay pick the guys who actually want to play for Q4

Betcha Mago will come around quickly - or die the slow death by pine slivers.
We'll lose alot but it'd be fun b-ball to watch them grow!!!

[Raptor4Ever]

And the major engine problem is Bargnani. You need a new engine. You need to trade Bargnani. Then you can focus on everything else.

That sentence my friend, proves my point all along that your hate makes you unqualify to analyz Raptors.

The fact that you are willing to give a pass to BC for all his mistakes and... all well documented over the years in RR, his rlationship with AB and the whole Sam Saga and ... proves my point that logic has no place in your judgment right now when it comes to AB.

The fact that you gave a pass to Jay and all his shortcommings in Player management and ... All his bad play calling and ... Just proves my point further.

Thank you for your above post because I could have not done a better job myself proving that you are Bias.

And the icing on the cake is that you THINK One player is the ENGINE of the Whole team That my friend is just GOLD, I tell you, GOLD

Anyway, I proved my point and I think I wasted enough time disscussing this with you.

There are delusional people that think we have not landed on the moon.
There are delusional people that think Elvis is still alive.
There are delusionla people who think 911 was an insider job and ...

It does not matter what you tell them, they will insist on their idea and I think it is the same with you when you come and say:

AB is the Engine for Toronto Raptors .....

Best of Luck Pal , but I promiss you that AB is not going any where till BC is in Charge here.

[Raptor4Ever]

9.5/10

Don't forget AIDS and cancer, moving Bargnani will cure those too.

LOOOOOL, that was Awsome

Cheerss..

[charlz]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a Jay basher. I think he's a decent enough coach. But when your best player (or, at least, the person who's SUPPOSED to be your best player) either can't or isn't willing to play anything but the most rudimentary on-the-ball defence, then one of two things has to happen: a) you figure the current coach has had his chance to get this guy to play dee and has failed, so you ship out the coach, betting that another coach will be able to turn Bargnani into a serviceable defender and henc something approaching a complete player and a keeper; or b) you figure that the player is hopeless, and seek to ship him out. In the latter case, you do it QUICK, because his trade value will plummet very fast, especially if you start benching him due to exasperation.
So, what'll it be?

Jay @ seasons end bargs any time before the 11-12 campaign starts ... assuming it does.

[ibzilla]

Raps fans are delusional and too attached to the team. These same people who are bashing Andrea are the same ones who thought Andrea could be an all star when they where an 8th seed for 2 days this season. Most of you aren't objective and bash the guy when the team is struggling and some of it is undeserved. Now you may think I'm a Bargnani fan but that's far from the truth. Check my older posts if you like when I was saying he's nothing more than a sixth man off the bench and the Raptors would be in the running for Perry Jones back when Bosh left in July. Now Andrea is what he is; a perimeter forward who can be a Mehmet Okur type under the right sytem. But under JT and BC run-and-gun system is a disaster for a guy like Andrea. He gets a lot of blame for not playing defense but Triano hasn't coached anyone to play defense so you can't blame just Andrea. Change the system, get rid of all the players minus Derozan, Davis, and Bayless and draft well and perhaps in 5 years we can compete.

[nubreed000]

Raps fans are delusional and too attached to the team. These same people who are bashing Andrea are the same ones who thought Andrea could be an all star when they where an 8th seed for 2 days this season. Most of you aren't objective and bash the guy when the team is struggling and some of it is undeserved.

lol why don't you provide some examples of these people flip flopping. most people on here are pretty consistent.

[ibzilla]

But please don't change the coach after this season. We, as Raptor fans, deserve a chance at Perry Jones or Kyrie Irving after bearing through this D-League talent-like team play like "chickens with their heads cut off" as Kevin Love likes to say

[ibzilla]

lol why don't you provide some examples of these people flip flopping then?

I'm not going to look and point out everyone but looking at the responses when I said Andrea was a sixth man a lot of people reacted negatively to that comment. Some people had started threads how Andrea could be an all-star and he had improved his game. And now when I read these posts and the articles on the forum it seems like the sentiment has changed and I see more people wanting to trade Andrea and very little debate whether he's a quality starter in the NBA. When I posted the thread at the time I believe only a couple of people agree with me, but had I waited until now to post the thread, it would be too late because 100 other threads have been started saying the same things I said

[blaze89]

id say about a half-eaten sandwich and a subscription to useless magazine..... id be happy with that

[joey_hesketh]

He would have demanded a trade on draft day... Just like he did with Charlotte

I don't think he "demanded" anything. Shaq made Divac expendable. At the time, Divac for Kobe was a steal for Charlotte. Vlade was SOLID and is legendary for the Hornets.
But besides the point I suppose. haha

[smushmush]

There is all this talk of trading Dre, but I have yet to see a discussion of what we could actually get in return. At this point I can't really fathom a team who would want him bad enough to offer us anything of value for him. What sensible GM would actually want this guy?

(But honestly, I would take anything to get him off the team. I can't imagine a worse player to have when developing young talent. He is not only the antithesis of a good center and demands that every other player be largely excluded from the offense, but he is also a horrible role model for young players in that he has zero heart. We should be taking full advantage of this season to develop DeMar, Ed, Amir and Jerryd, but Andrea is literally the best hinderance this league has to offer to said development.)

A second round pick(due to CBA rules, we could even trade back that pick to the team in a seperate trade) and a TPE. He needs to go - he is creating a toxic environment for our first round picks(where they think defense is not needed and they can do anything on the court without being accountable for it). I have someone like Bargs at work who is entitled and not accounted for(problem is that such guys do the job shabbily and still irritate you) and I can tell you it is not a good feeling.

[smushmush]

Overall I'd agree. It would be nice to lose to a team with 10 wins (keep in mind the Raps only have 13, people) in a close game.

People keep forgetting the Raps are 7 months in to a full fledged rebuild.

Bargnani is not a first option nor a franchise player.

People should be upset with the outcome of the game as nothing good came of it (except Davis, he played well) but not the process of rebuilding. Go through the bad times to experience the good times.

If we get Kyrie Irving or a player who becomes a legit All-Star, it will all be worth it, IMO.

Even if you are rebuilding, you should not be blown out by 10-win teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves lol.

[smushmush]

Both.

and BC - the one asking for the same salary without a paycut while the team stinks to the high heavens lol.

[smushmush]

Dude, you just contradicted yourself by shifting the blame away from Andrea to DeMar. Bargs as a BYC player, and 25 years old with a knack for scoring IS the reason to trade him. That is his value!!!! When do we consider unloading him, when he's 30 with bad knees and down to 3 rebounds a game? BC has to listen to offers no matter or wherever it is coming from.

BC + Triano + Bargs = Top three. I'm done bitching about those three. All I personally care for as a fan is for this team to do worse than Cleveland. If anything, it would be nice for this losing streak to last til the trade deadline so that we know who to really keep.

PS> New Jersey is in the same boat as the Raps because they too have a super soft center in Brook Lopez. That team ain't going nowhere with him in the middle.

+1 about the Brook Lopez statement(he was the best young center in the NBA, what happened?).

[blackjitsu]

MAYBE we could get a real center whose contract is a bit bigger than their talent and a draft pick? Hopefully maybe a late first rounder? That's a lot of wishful thinking though.