excuse my ignorance, i'm somewhat contract and salaries stupid... but if the raps were to trade him, would he count as 8.5 or 4.25 against the other team's cap space?Balls of Steel wrote:
excuse my ignorance, i'm somewhat contract and salaries stupid... but if the raps were to trade him, would he count as 8.5 or 4.25 against the other team's cap space?
He likes Toronto, I think he would accept being a sixth man, unless a team like New York offer him a starting job. I know he likes New York a lot, but I don't think he'd leave for any other team, but if the management wants him to leave, I guess he would.
As for Kanter, I was hoping BC would make a trade to get us another lottery or mid-range pick to get someone like Kanter, or Kyle Singler who I like, and Tyler Honeycutt. In a draft where apart from Irving, there is no star, picking a bunch a players in the 2-15 range could bring us some great talent. And it's what I think BC should do, get maybe 2 or 3 picks if possible. I thought he would do that with Peja's contract, give him to a team which is struggling, but has a high pay-roll.
I already have large enough sample of games to form an opinion, besides the fact Andrea has been playing hurt the last month, he has been dominating his matchups on a game to game basis (obviously more so before his injury) Off the top of my head the only games I can remember an opposing big posting a huge game against us, was Dwight Howard and Andrew Bogut, both games coming recently and good on them for taking advantage of a player clearly battling leg and knee problems. When Amir plays through back pain everyone praises him for going out and playing even when he scores like 4 points and grabs 5 rebounds. Well it's time to give Bargnani the same love he is playing injured and not using any excuses. Give it up for the Romanian Warrior. (and for those of you who dont beleive his injury watch replays of the last handful fo games (When he shoots his 3 points he can barly bend his knees and is using all wrist which is explaing his huge dip in 3 point shooting not to mention his overall shooting percetage.
In regards to his defensive rebounding.. Andrea may not get the indvidual rebounds himself but he creates lots of rebounds for his teamates, which people like you obviously don't pay attention to. Andrea plays excellent man to man defence and thus causes his opposing player to shoot a low percentage which obviosly leaves his teamates in excellent position to rebound the missed shot. Also, you must not realize his block shot have been increasing lately which if Amir was getting 3 block a game he would be praised like no tomorrow.
Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Mon Jan 31st, 2011 at 10:12 AM.
I think Jay is afraid of being fired for benching Bargs and making him be accountable for his mistakes on the court.
They wouldn't be able to get what the Raptors really need, a quality young center. No Brook Lopez, no Joakim Noah, no Kevin Love(dude can play center) and no Al Horford. They could probably land Nene's expiring contract but he's already making a list of places he would like to play and from what I read Toronto wasn't on that list. Plus the age/talent ratio isn't as good as Bargnani's. Maybe Andrew Bynum but I think he's closer to Greg Oden than Shaq at this point. Plus he's been called out on his work ethic in the past.
I don't like Brook Lopez, and I wouldn't do a Lopez/Bargnani because NJ are high on him, and would probably ask for our lottery pick and maybe another player.
As I said earlier, its very difficult for us to get a player for Bargnani, which is actually worth it. We're pretty much stuck.
Are you messed???
Are you deranged? "Just" 4 rebounds? When the guy only averages 5.6? That means a 71.4% improvement!
If Kevin Love (who you obviously don't think that highly of) increased his stats at the same "measly" rate you think Bargs can, he would be averaging 26.7 rebounds per game. Think about that for a second...
WTF is the "Romanian Warrior"???
Relax buddy this isant finance class your amazing at math congradulations. If you read my article you would see why he is below his expected rebounding numbers. Its not because you divide by 4/5.6
It's a slang for teabagging AB7.
The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority. - Martin Luther King
See, this is the kind of argument that gets you into trouble; you can't just throw out a statement like this without something to actually back it up.
I would actually argue the opposite, that the other raptors have to work harder on the defensive glass because Bargnani is so poor at putting a body on his man. As a result, someone like Amir or Ed Davis has to compete with not only their man but also Bargnani's in order to secure the defensive board. Case in point: the Raps are 23rd in the league in defensive rebounding percentage (and that includes Reggie's work earlier in the season, would probably be lower if not for that), and shockingly 7th in offensive rebounding percentage.
Pretty ironic considering the Bargs supporters claim that he can't rebound because he's far from the basket when the ball goes up. Guess the Raps don't actually need him to help much on the offensive glass. But on the defensive glass? Considering the team allows the league-worst opponent's shooting percentage? Those few defensive boards are crucial and can swing games.
By the way, just read Liston's Statophile vol 11, the section on Bargnani's effort stats says all that needs to be said.
By Definition: When pain threashhold reaches maximum capacity the Romanian Warrior calmly analyses the situation, watches the clock tick downwards steps back and calmly drills a cannon into the hearts of his victims leaving the court knowing his job is complete.
I'm not sure what games you've been watching, but I certainly wouldn't say that Bargnani has been dominating his opponents. Even the games where he scores, he still allows his man to almost always have a much better than average game. In fact, he's actually consistently allowing his opponent to outproduce him on the court...
http://www.82games.com/1011/1011TOR.HTM
And yes Amir has been playing hurt and getting props for it. You know why? Because he's still contributing when he's on the court. He still plays defense, he still works hard and he still makes a positive impact. If Bargnani has been playing hurt, he's been able to contribute literally nothing when he's not hitting his shot. He's actually a liability to the team. If Bargnani figures out how to contribute while he's hurt, THEN he'll get praise. Until then, why praise a guy for playing hurt when doing so kills the team?
I have to say I laughed when you wrote that Bargnani creates a lot of rebounds for him teammates. Of course, he takes 18 shots a game and misses more than half of those (lately 75%). But Bargnani doesn't play excellent man-to-man defense. Not in the least. He has consistently allowed his man to produce higher than average. He gives up deep post position, gets blown by far too often and doesn't box out very well. I really don't know what player you're watching, but it's not Bargnani.
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Bargnani is ROMAN, not ROMANIAN.
And dude, I'm a big Bargs fan, always have been; but you gotta drop this one. He's no good at rebounding or help defense. He's not. Plain and simple.
Interesting article, thought of this thread when I read it:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18625
One thing is becoming increasingly clear: there are a whole lot more teams looking for assets than selling them.
LOL i know it was sarcasm
Seriously I would drop this but it just pisses me off when all people talk about is Bargnani and his rebounding / defensive issues. I have to get this off my chest because people are being mislead about this player. If you look at all his positive contributions towards the team and then people keep bring up some nominal issues and then running with them it pisses me off. So i figure I should end this myth before it becomes some maintstream issue where good or bad thats all people will talk about when they see, touch, smell or feel bargani. Ahh he scored 50 who cares his rebound percentage was -12% lets trade him. If his girlfriend starts reading opinions on this site she mights also start worrying Ahh hes in good in bed but who cares he cant rebound.,, lol you see where im getting at.
Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Mon Jan 31st, 2011 at 11:46 AM.
I think we've identified the problem here: you value point production far more than you do rebounding and defense. You can't call defense and rebounding issues 'nominal' and expect not to get a strong response in here. Bargs provides one single positive contribution, his offense, but there's more to the game (and specifically winning) than just putting points on the board.
Im kinda all Bargnani-ed out. I went toe to toe with Tim W. in a previous post and i just got exhausted going around in circles.
I dont think anybody here is saying he's the next Wilt Chamberlain (although he might be getting the ladies, who knows) but he certainly aint Araujo's big brother either.
Fact of the matter is, this guy can score. But he plays lousy defense and a decent rebounder at best. Should he be traded? IMO, definitely not. You can pick off any bum on the street and give him a million bucks to shadow an opponent for 48 minutes and he'll do it, but you cant give the same guy 10mil and ask him to score 20pts a game, he can try, but probably wont be able to. Like i always say, get a defensive big beside him and he'll be fine. It takes talent to score, and perseverance to be a good defender, which Bargnani doesnt have. There are guys in the league who score a lot and doesnt do much in other cats (terry, crawford) but they still contribute to their team's winning ways. Like it or not, every sport, basketball included, the objective is to score more points than your opponent. When it goes down the wire, tied game and its your ball, youd still want Bargnani taking the last shot rather than your greatest defensive player.
he's definitely not a franchise player, but 2nd or 3rd scoring option is what he is.
You are literally losing credibility by every post you write. Positive contribution?? we're losing 11 straight games, how is any of that positive?
He' a center, and part of the job of being a center is rebounding, not saying you're lazy at it.
Bargnani is asked how he gets beat on the boards.
"Being lazy maybe," he says. "That's the only reason it can be. I've got the body, I've got everything to take 10 rebounds a game. It's just sometimes I get lazy."
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