View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #4361
    Raptors Republic Starter raptorsking's Avatar
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    So true, most of the players seem like robots answering the questions. Triano and Derozan vividly come to mind. I resepct Andrea for speaking his mind because this shows hes got a high confidence level and doesn't care people think. His responses aren't some pr bullshit to make everyone happy.


    Yo I honeslty dont think Bargnani will be traded. I think the Raptors will try and make it work with him...


    tiano comes to mind ? he's the most candid guy to interview on the team what the fuck you gonna do ?

  2. #4362
    Raptors Republic Starter raptorsking's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    I hope he doesn't get traded. If we get some noob gm, he might be. But rule of thumb in any business- dont get rid of your best employee. In hoops- dont traded your all star.

    Best part about bargs is that he loves toronto. He wouldnt bail to go "back to the US", like VC, Tmac, Bosh, Demar, etc.
    demar ?you just hate on anyone that isn't bargnani *** , demar, sonny, amir are always in toronto in the summer where's bargnani ? he's taking his first flight back home till training season...
    Last edited by raptorsking; Sun Apr 3rd, 2011 at 10:10 AM.

  3. #4363
    Raptors Republic Starter raptorsking's Avatar
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    lol so true raptors are so boring to watch without Bargs things just aren't the same without his presence. Even if they won today I wouldn't have cared looll... its all about the KING and his men.
    lmao you guys have to be joking ..... okay from now on im going to take these comments as jokes lmao !!

  4. #4364
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    Reasonable fans?
    First off if you say a fan has an objective view on the whole Bargnani debate, then why on earth would they source an article from the score written by some unknown author and specifically quote an answer that has no relevance to anything. And even more use this article to weigh on your decision for keep him or trading him. This is clearly not reasonable at all. Who cares. Why doesn’t the reasonable fan source the Bargnani article written by hoopsworld http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19313
    Yea Demar, Ed Reggie etc call him the franchise player. Not to mention one of his goals for next year is improving on D. Holly Mackenize author for blog from the score … Demar Reggie Amir … current players on Toronto raptors … which source would you trust?
    If you don't think Matt52 is a reasonable fan, then, I'm sorry to say, you've already lost the argument. We went toe-to-toe a few months back on the whole Bargnani issue, and the fact that he never once took it to a personal level and was respectful the entire time speaks volumes. I don't know what it is about Bargnani that causes so many of his fans to act the way they do. When people who actually like Bargnani are sick of guys like Multipaul's act (as several have said), you know he's crossed the line. And I'm afraid you're not far behind, the way you are going.

    As for Bargnani like his game, don't like his game. I don't really care. It's not my business. But he's clearly not the player that you guys pretend he is.
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  5. #4365
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    With respect to Tim saying "you will never win with a guy who wants to score lots of points"...i just shake my head...Bargs is one of the best offensive players in the game.
    You hit the nail on the head here. Yes, he's a very good OFFENSIVE player. But the part you constantly ignore is that he's also a liability on defense. I can't for the life of me understand why you would consistently turn a blind eye to a part of the game that is so incredibly important. Bad defensive teams don't win. Even average defensive teams don't win Championships. Care to debate me on this? Probably not, when it's easier just to call me a hater and take the discussion to a personal level.

    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    I love the raps, and unfortunately I think Bargs will get traded. I go to lots of games too, and I will go to see Bargs when he returns, and will also smile inside when he drops 40 on us while cursing on the outside.
    I've never seen any indication that you are anything but a Bargnani fan. You constantly criticize any Raptor who is not Bargnani, and blame them for his faults. Bargnani's man is scoring? Must be Amir's fault for not giving good enough help D. Bargnani fails to show hard enough on an opponents drive to the basket? Must be one of the guards fault for exposing him.

    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    One of the best memories I have of this year was going to the Miami game and watching Bargs go at CB. He schooled him with dunks, pump fakes, he played killer D on him, and just brought his A game. It's too bad his detractors will probably get him traded, but then, they will just find someone new to hate on next year.
    It's great that you remember this game. Too bad there weren't a whole lot more like it. Guys like you remember the exceptions, rather than the rule. Normally, Bargnani's defense is incredibly poor and brings his C game.

    THE SEASON ISN'T A SINGLE GAME LONG. It's 82 games and even his reasonable fans admit he simply doesn't bring it on a consistent basis.

    The last line just shows how much you have your head in the sand. You refuse to believe that Bargnani critics have a point, and if you convince yourself we are just "haters" then you don't have to listen to our side. Besides, we don't have to hate on anyone next year. You're doing a fantastic job of that yourself.

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  6. #4366
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    Reasonable fans?
    First off if you say a fan has an objective view on the whole Bargnani debate, then why on earth would they source an article from the score written by some unknown author and specifically quote an answer that has no relevance to anything. And even more use this article to weigh on your decision for keep him or trading him. This is clearly not reasonable at all. Who cares. Why doesn’t the reasonable fan source the Bargnani article written by hoopsworld http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19313
    Yea Demar, Ed Reggie etc call him the franchise player. Not to mention one of his goals for next year is improving on D. Holly Mackenize author for blog from the score … Demar Reggie Amir … current players on Toronto raptors … which source would you trust?
    Who posted the HoopsWorld article originally?

    Holly Mackenzie is a journalist who is paid to cover the Raptors. Bargnani was asked questions and he answered and was given quotes. Because the quotes do not match your opinion doesn't make them false or worthless.

    Why would I quote DeMar, Ed, or Reggie when I quoted Bargnani himself.

    If you are looking for a quote from the HoopsWorld article, here you go:

    First overall picks are expected to become franchise players and team leaders but it doesn't always happen and our expectations may exceed what a certain player is currently capable of providing. From a Raptors team perspective, Evans paints an accurate picture.

    "This focus point is on him instead of him and Bosh so he has definitely proved that he can score in this league on a consistent basis and be a legitimate franchise player," said Evans. "There are things that he needs to work on but that goes for everybody.

    "He definitely has a great future ahead of him. He still has a lot to show people that will eventually come out, things just take time and it will eventually all work out for him.

    "If it comes down to the last shot, me personally, I want it in his hands. No matter if it's a three or a post-up, I have a lot of trust in him to put it in the hole."

    That doesn't mean Bargnani is or will ever become a cornerstone type franchise player, at this point Bargnani can only lay claim to being the best offensive player on his own team this season. The still developing big man has yet to find the remaining aspects of his offensive arsenal, his own comfort zone on defense, and a better nose for the ball on the boards. Of course, if Bargnani puts all that together, all bets are off.

    The reasonable assumption is that Bargnani will continue to improve but is not any more likely to reach elite status than the "franchise player" he replaced and the Raptors will continue to look for the next franchise guy in their own group of young developing talent and through the draft.


    Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1IUNM1Td1
    Do you notice the other 50% of the game Reggie does not mention? IF the game was just offense Bargnani would be 1st team all NBA, hands down, at the C position - but it is much more than that.

    Notice the bolded section - I couldn't have put it any better myself. This has been my position all along with debates with many people. The problem as I see it (so in other words in my opinion) is he has actually regressed this season in the other aspects of his game besides offense. These same aspects have been beaten to death for the better part of 5 years so there is no need to discuss now.

    For the record I would love nothing more than the Raps to be successful WITH Bargnani. My concern is it will take a special roster that might be extremely difficult and require a much longer time frame to acquire than what could be accomplished with the assets received for trading Bargnani.

    At the end of the day I am a Raptor fan first and I want the team to do better than anyone of its players.

  7. #4367
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Who posted the HoopsWorld article originally? Holly Mackenzie is a journalist who is paid to cover the Raptors. Bargnani was asked questions and he answered and was given quotes. Because the quotes do not match your opinion doesn't make them false or worthless.
    But because they match your opinion they must be credible to post right?

    Why would I quote DeMar, Ed, or Reggie when I quoted Bargnani himself.
    So did you purposely leave out the quote where he said one of his goals is to improve his defense?

    If you are looking for a quote from the HoopsWorld article, here you go:
    Do you notice the other 50% of the game Reggie does not mention? IF the game was just offense Bargnani would be 1st team all NBA, hands down, at the C position - but it is much more than that.
    Notice the bolded section - I couldn't have put it any better myself. This has been my position all along with debates with many people. The problem as I see it (so in other words in my opinion) is he has actually regressed this season in the other aspects of his game besides offense . These same aspects have been beaten to death for the better part of 5 years so there is no need to discuss now.
    Notice how I purposely didn't copy/paste any direct links from that article because I let people read the article for themselves and make their own judgments. Anyone who reads that article would understand it was meant as an article complimenting Bargnani's game. Yet you subjectively chose to take parts from the article to strengthen your position which is clearer than a crystal ball.
    Also it’s pretty funny how you disregard Bargnani's offensive game; yet praise others for consistently improving their offensive games. You have no consistency in your player evaluations.



    For the record I would love nothing more than the Raps to be successful WITH Bargnani. My concern is it will take a special roster that might be extremely difficult and require a much longer time frame to acquire than what could be accomplished with the assets received for trading Bargnani.
    You almost had me for a second. IF only you hadn’t started that trade Bargnani idea threads.

  8. #4368
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    But because they match your opinion they must be credible to post right?



    So did you purposely leave out the quote where he said one of his goals is to improve his defense?



    Notice how I purposely didn't copy/paste any direct links from that article because I let people read the article for themselves and make their own judgments. Anyone who reads that article would understand it was meant as an article complimenting Bargnani's game. Yet you subjectively chose to take parts from the article to strengthen your position which is clearer than a crystal ball.
    Also it’s pretty funny how you disregard Bargnani's offensive game; yet praise others for consistently improving their offensive games. You have no consistency in your player evaluations.





    You almost had me for a second. IF only you hadn’t started that trade Bargnani idea threads.
    Ohhhhh snap!

    bWo

  9. #4369
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    If you don't think Matt52 is a reasonable fan, then, I'm sorry to say, you've already lost the argument. We went toe-to-toe a few months back on the whole Bargnani issue, and the fact that he never once took it to a personal level and was respectful the entire time speaks volumes.
    I am commenting oh what I see today not what was written two months ago. Clearly matt52’s perceptions must have changed since your last toe-toe battles.

    I don't know what it is about Bargnani that causes so many of his fans to act the way they do.
    All of a sudden he has many fans? You clearly said 99.9% of the people are against him.

    When people who actually like Bargnani are sick of guys like Multipaul's act (as several have said), you know he's crossed the line. And I'm afraid you're not far behind, the way you are going.
    Iv actually read many comments from bloggers saying they are relieved multipaul is back on the form and value his opinion me included. I notice you always offended by mine and multipaul’s opinion when it relates to bargani, which is good indicator to me that you are in fact personally offended when people mention Bargnani in a positive light.

    As for Bargnani like his game, don't like his game. I don't really care. It's not my business. But he's clearly not the player that you guys pretend he is.
    You clearly do care otherwise you wouldn’t be so venomly trying to disprove us.
    Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 02:18 PM.

  10. #4370
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    I am commenting oh what I see today not what was written two months ago. Clearly matt52’s perceptions must have changed since your last toe-toe battles.



    All of a sudden he has many fans? You clearly said 99.9% of the people are against him.



    Iv actually read many comments from bloggers saying they are relieved multipaul is back on the form and value his opinion me included. I notice you always offended by mine and multipaul’s opinion when it relates to bargani, which is good indicator to me that you are in fact personally offended when people mention Bargnani in a positive light.



    You clearly do care otherwise you wouldn’t be so venomly trying to disprove us.
    Yo dunk, I support you 1000% brov, us Bargs fans gotta stick together, forget these haters!

  11. #4371
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=DunkinDerozan;75235]
    But because they match your opinion they must be credible to post right?
    When one makes a claim, one typically offers a reason as to why - at least a rational person does.

    So did you purposely leave out the quote where he said one of his goals is to improve his defense?
    I purposely left it out because many Raptors fans who dislike Bargnani would have immediately picked up on the first thing he said about improvements to his game which were, in this order, three point shooting, then defense, then rebounding. This also provides further ammunition to his detractors and solidifies the post from Holly McKenzie at the Score: he is still not ready to make defense his number one priority in areas to improve his game.

    Notice how I purposely didn't copy/paste any direct links from that article because I let people read the article for themselves and make their own judgments. Anyone who reads that article would understand it was meant as an article complimenting Bargnani's game. Yet you subjectively chose to take parts from the article to strengthen your position which is clearer than a crystal ball.
    Also it’s pretty funny how you disregard Bargnani's offensive game; yet praise others for consistently improving their offensive games. You have no consistency in your player evaluations.
    How you chose to post is your decision. I highlighted what I deemed relevant to my input on the discussion. Thank you for implying that I am so knowledgeable and influential to sway the opinions of others when sources are provided.

    You almost had me for a second. IF only you hadn’t started that trade Bargnani idea threads.
    Why wouldn't I, or anyone else, start the thread? This is a forum for Raptors ideas. Any trade would be made with the idea of improving the team - it does not matter who is traded. I am for the success of the Raptors as a team over any single player, in other words, I am a fan of the Raptors over any player.

    If you look through the postings in the D'Antonification of the Raptors, for example, I have every single Raptor being traded except Bargnani until that rumour came out he could be shopped or open to being traded. If you look through many of the other threads in the Trade Forum you'll see I have every possible trade imaginable to get players that cover up Bargnani's defensive and rebounding flaws.

    The difference between praising others who improve their offensive game is they didn't let their defensive and rebounding game get worse - which many thought would be impossible but Il Mago did the trick. The only ones I can assume you would be referring to are DeRozan, Amir, and possibly Davis.

    I find it very interesting that one who says:
    Yet you subjectively chose to take parts from the article to strengthen your position which is clearer than a crystal ball.
    managed to cherry pick my posts.

    To conclude, the article concludes with the opinion I have long held: he is not a franchise guy, he is not paid like one, and the Raps best hope at getting one continues to be through the draft.

  12. #4372
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Yo dunk, I support you 1000% brov, us Bargs fans gotta stick together, forget these haters!
    yooo bro BWO4L...

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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    yooo bro BWO4L...
    King Bargs
    Prince Dero

    yo, Dero was sporting a bWo jersey in the post game interview, and said to Doug Smith "wolfpack! 4 life"

  14. #4374
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    King Bargs
    Prince Dero

    yo, Dero was sporting a bWo jersey in the post game interview, and said to Doug Smith "wolfpack! 4 life"
    you know it!!!

    When Demar and Bargnani form the next Kobe Gasol combo.. people will look back and say you know what those two pioneers Multi and Dunkin they actually knew what they were talking about..

  15. #4375
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    lol... say what you want about their nonsensibilty... gotta appreciate that kinda positivity

  16. #4376
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    you know it!!!

    When Demar and Bargnani form the next Kobe Gasol combo.. people will look back and say you know what those two pioneers Multi and Dunkin they actually knew what they were talking about..
    You're right bro

    Kobe-Demar
    Gasol-Bargs
    Bynum- Davis
    Umm Fisher??- Kemba
    Artest/Odom- James Johnson

    DJ M'benga- Amir bwhwhahahahah

  17. #4377
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    tim w does an interview with bargnani /// hey bargs many people have been very critical me included of your reb.... Bargnani "IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU WERE THINKING"/// gives tim the people's eybrow... then says this one is for the thousands in attendance and the millions annnnd millions of bars fans watching around the world... throws down mic... slips on elbow pad... and gives tim w the people's elbowww...

  18. #4378
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    tim w does an interview with bargnani /// hey bargs many people have been very critical me included of your reb.... Bargnani "IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU WERE THINKING"/// gives tim the people's eybrow... then says this one is for the thousands in attendance and the millions annnnd millions of bars fans watching around the world... throws down mic... slips on elbow pad... and gives tim w the people's elbowww...
    If u smeeellllllalalalallalalalalalall! What the Bargs....is......cookin!

  19. #4379
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    You're right bro

    Kobe-Demar
    Gasol-Bargs
    Bynum- Davis
    Umm Fisher??- Kemba
    Artest/Odom- James Johnson

    DJ M'benga- Amir bwhwhahahahah

    hahahah or

    alabi = mbenga

  20. #4380
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    hahahah or

    alabi = mbenga
    Bayless- Steve Blake

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