View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #4801
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    This might have worked better if they had kept him at the three years ago. As it is he has become way to heavy and slow to guard opposing threes. It's a shame really, if they had cast him as a three initially he might have done well there.
    'm pretty sure he would have become the size he is either way. He's simply filled out naturally. It's not like he packed on extra muscle, or anything. Some guys might naturally stay slim and quick, but I really don't think Bargnani would have.
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  2. #4802
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    vs. Lebron
    vs. Durant
    vs. Odom
    Yikes.

    If he learns to just slide his feet, extend his arms and just use his body to block their paths then that would be wicked, coz he is a wide body and if he knew how to use it it could create problems for these guys. but, he doesnt, and frankly, i dont think he'll be able to learn. or at least willing to.

    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Thu Apr 21st, 2011 at 02:19 PM.

  3. #4803
    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    vs. Lebron
    vs. Durant
    vs. Odom
    Yikes.

    If he learns to just slide his feet, extend his arms and just use his body to block their paths then that would be wicked, coz he is a wide body and if he knew how to use it it could create problems for these guys. but, he doesnt, and frankly, i dont think he'll be able to learn. or at least willing to.

    I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, hes listed as Chu Chu. I think hes worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name. -Tim W.

  4. #4804
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    To be fair he doesn't really defend bigs either so it's not like he'd be giving up more or something. Plus he'd be able to shoot over pretty much any 3.
    @jerboat

  5. #4805
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    But yeah, no.
    @jerboat

  6. #4806
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    If Bargs played the three, defensively he would have to guard the other teams weakest offensive player whatever position they were. On a few occasions last year we saw a lineup of Bargs, ED and AJ.

  7. #4807
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    To be fair he doesn't really defend bigs either so it's not like he'd be giving up more or something. Plus he'd be able to shoot over pretty much any 3.
    i dont like Bargs but i gotta defend him on this one. The only good thing he can do on defense is guard bigs. He's a good on-ball defender against bigs. He sucks on help D and defending smaller players. Any chance he has to shuffle his feet to prevent an opposing player from getting to the basket is as good as gone.

  8. #4808
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    If Bargs played the three, defensively he would have to guard the other teams weakest offensive player whatever position they were. On a few occasions last year we saw a lineup of Bargs, ED and AJ.
    I recall him doing that against the Pistons and being lit up for 23 versus Big Ben - lol, low blow to Bargnani? I apologize if so.

  9. #4809
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I recall him doing that against the Pistons and being lit up for 23 versus Big Ben - lol, low blow to Bargnani? I apologize if so.
    Was that the December game in Toronto? I was at that game and our wings were getting torched by Stuckey, Gordon, Prince and T-Mac (Rip sat out) with constant penetration and defensive switching. Bargnani did a good job cutting guys off on the switch, but they were hitting deep fadeaways from just inside the 3-pt line in the corners at like a 55% clip in the first half. When they got deeper penetration, they would simply dump it to Big Ben or Monroe inside for an easy layup/dunk while our wing was three steps too late on their switches. I remember sitting there at the game thinking that Bargnani's defense was good, but he was going to get destroyed on the stat sheet and here on RR! LOL

  10. #4810
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    on offense...
    center -big enough to post up inside -- threat
    pf--- quick enough and skilled enough to play stretch 4 when needed
    sf --- unlimited range and smooth stroke to play the 3 can pump fake and dribble drive from 3 point line with the best of them

    on defense

    big enough to play the 5
    mobile enough to play the 4
    can play 3 only against opposing 3's with no ballhandling skills
    Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Thu Apr 21st, 2011 at 03:51 PM.

  11. #4811
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Was that the December game in Toronto? I was at that game and our wings were getting torched by Stuckey, Gordon, Prince and T-Mac (Rip sat out) with constant penetration and defensive switching. Bargnani did a good job cutting guys off on the switch, but they were hitting deep fadeaways from just inside the 3-pt line in the corners at like a 55% clip in the first half. When they got deeper penetration, they would simply dump it to Big Ben or Monroe inside for an easy layup/dunk while our wing was three steps too late on their switches. I remember sitting there at the game thinking that Bargnani's defense was good, but he was going to get destroyed on the stat sheet and here on RR! LOL
    +1

  12. #4812
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Was that the December game in Toronto? I was at that game and our wings were getting torched by Stuckey, Gordon, Prince and T-Mac (Rip sat out) with constant penetration and defensive switching. Bargnani did a good job cutting guys off on the switch, but they were hitting deep fadeaways from just inside the 3-pt line in the corners at like a 55% clip in the first half. When they got deeper penetration, they would simply dump it to Big Ben or Monroe inside for an easy layup/dunk while our wing was three steps too late on their switches. I remember sitting there at the game thinking that Bargnani's defense was good, but he was going to get destroyed on the stat sheet and here on RR! LOL
    No, it was the December game at Detroit. They played at Detroit on December 11 and home versus them on the 22nd. The 11th was the big comeback with Bayless scoring 31 points. I recall Wallace just abusing him on the boards.

    Here is the box score:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=301211008

  13. #4813
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Personally, I could see Bargs play the 3. Even if he starts the game at this position doesn't mean he'll be there all game long! On offense, I think it could work well. As for the defensive end, just like some of you said before, when he's at the 3, he takes the weakest player on the other team and that's it. I really could see it happen and I'd like to. And if he gets beat by his man, you got some good shot blockers and defenders inside to help him.

  14. #4814
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    I'd be willing to try it. I mean, he could at least guard the Keith Bogans' and James Jones' of the world without too much trouble... right? right?!?! Please tell me I'm right!!!!

  15. #4815
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    The year he lined up at SF his defensive rating and opp. PER was worst. What is more telling though is his OFFENSIVE production was also less compared to lining up at PF or C that same year. Likely to do with the fact that he is a jump shooter, and SFs in this league will actually come out to you at the 3pt line and bother you, and harass throughout the game. Who knows, I just gotta say

    NO WAY IN HELL>

  16. #4816
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Personally, I could see Bargs play the 3. Even if he starts the game at this position doesn't mean he'll be there all game long! On offense, I think it could work well. As for the defensive end, just like some of you said before, when he's at the 3, he takes the weakest player on the other team and that's it. I really could see it happen and I'd like to. And if he gets beat by his man, you got some good shot blockers and defenders inside to help him.
    Yes let's put ED on Carmelo, Durant and Lebron. That'll work. Shhuure.

  17. #4817
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Hey, we are a rebuilding team. Whatever they do they won't be able to contain the Heat. And I repeat it, that's a starting 5, it doesn't mean that this is it all game long!

  18. #4818
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Why do so many Bargnani supporters (at least the most vocal ones) seem to believe that either a player is a great scorer, or has no offensive talent, and there's nothing in between? The whole argument seems to be that you need scoring to win, and if you want Bargnani traded that automatically means that you don't want anyone on the team that can score. It's either Bargnani or Reggie Evans.

    Believe it or not, you can get a player who can score AND play defense. Can you imagine that?
    Every coin has 2 sides. If youre concerned that Bargnani supporters only highlight Bargnani's scoring and not his defense, well the same goes for Bargnani supporters who are concerned with Bargnani detractors like you who only point his defense and not his scoring abilities. I am for one is neutral. As Heinz would put it, im swiss. I think Bargnani is a good scorer but his defense is not up to par. I like the guy because he's with the Raps at the moment, but if he gets traded, ill live.

    Scoring is a big factor in winning, but not the only factor. For me, Offense has a slight advantage over defense but again, dont get me wrong, defense is daaaamn important, good defense takes you there, but offense pushes you beyond. Its just logical, basketball is a game where winning is done by scoring more points. You can win games by stopping opponents but what really gave you that win is that last basket you made against the opponent. You can stop every shot your opponent attempts but unless you put one in your basket, thats the only time you win a game.

  19. #4819
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    I predicted between 15-25 for this season and I was pretty damn close. What was your prediction ?
    LOL I predicted that the Raptors will win between 0 and 40 games so I'm right too.

  20. #4820
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Every coin has 2 sides. If youre concerned that Bargnani supporters only highlight Bargnani's scoring and not his defense, well the same goes for Bargnani supporters who are concerned with Bargnani detractors like you who only point his defense and not his scoring abilities. I am for one is neutral. As Heinz would put it, im swiss. I think Bargnani is a good scorer but his defense is not up to par. I like the guy because he's with the Raps at the moment, but if he gets traded, ill live.

    Scoring is a big factor in winning, but not the only factor. For me, Offense has a slight advantage over defense but again, dont get me wrong, defense is daaaamn important, good defense takes you there, but offense pushes you beyond. Its just logical, basketball is a game where winning is done by scoring more points. You can win games by stopping opponents but what really gave you that win is that last basket you made against the opponent. You can stop every shot your opponent attempts but unless you put one in your basket, thats the only time you win a game.
    I don't highlight one thing over the other. BOTH scoring and defense are equally important, so having a player who is good at one, but a liability at the other doesn't make sense. Antoine Wright, for instance. He was a good defensive player, but positively useless on offense. Actually, useless would have been an upgrade. No matter how good he was on defense, the fact that he actually hurt the team on offense made me not want him as part of the team.

    As I said, I'm of the belief that scoring and defense are equally important if you want to win. You can compete by focusing on one or the other, but if you truly want to win, both have to be good. You can certainly be a player that focuses on one, but if you are a complete liability on the other end, then you're going to hurt the team. A player like Dennis Rodman wasn't a liability on offense because he moved well without the ball, was a great offensive rebounder and had a high basketball IQ and was a good passer. Bruce Bowen was basically a scrub until he was able to hit the 3 point shot consistently, thus not being a liability on offense, anymore.

    A guy like Reggie Evans is certainly an excellent rebounder, and he gets a lot of offensive rebounds and is actually a decent passer, but the fact that he can't hit a shot even when he's standing under the basket makes him pretty much useless, especially on a good team.

    It's not just one dimensional offensive players that I have something against. It's that I have something against ANY player who is a liability on either end of the court. If you play 30 mpg, but are effective for only 15 minutes and a liability for the other 15 minutes, that is a problem.
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