My interpretation is while the offense is more effective with Amir Johnson on the floor then off, his presence on the floor does not create easier, or harder, opportunities for his teammates.
As to Raptors scoring more with Amir Johnson on the floor, then with Andrea Bargnani on the floor:
The Raptors scored 4943 points in the 2352 minutes Bargnani was on the floor (100.88 per48)
The Raptors scored 3874 points in the 1851 minutes Amir Johnson was on the floor (100.46)
Bargnani is slightly ahead but the difference is insignificant.
The Raptors scored 1.08 per possession with Bargnani on the floor
The Raptors scored 1.09 per possession with Amir Johnson on the floor
Advantage Amir Jonson this time but again, insignificant.
Andrea is an awful offensive rebounder and I doubt this number will increase significantly unless if he continues to shoot 80% jump shots.
While on the subject of rebounding, it is interesting to note that while Amir is an excellent offensive rebounder, he posted slightly below average PF DRR for the past three years.
I would like the Raptors to acquire a very good defensive backup center.
I am not sold at all on Bayless as his teammates perform worse when he is directing the offense.
now i know your making things upp.. 90% of the time? where are you getting this data ?
channing frye isan't on our team so bringing him up is irrelevant.
I guess he meant Frye's rookie season when he averaged more than 2 off rebounds per game and was used as comparison of a big man whos style of game is mostly around the perimeter.
but ask yourself what could be some possible reasons for his high offensive rebounding #'s ....
was he a focal point on offense? were his teamates skilled enough to attract double teams? or was he shadowed by his defender and doubl teamed all the time? did he shoot the highest percentage of his team shots? or was he the receipient of an open lane to the basket on other peoples misses?
Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Mon Apr 25th, 2011 at 07:35 PM.
2. de-facto franchise player
triano obviously doesn't have the balls to sit bargnani especially at his price tag, i remember one game where ed davis was going off i mean off vs the pacers but bargs was still being played even though he was struggling and continued to struggle down the stretch.
Last edited by raptorsking; Mon Apr 25th, 2011 at 10:20 PM.
and he also fouls a lot probably why he didn't get as much playing time it still wouldn't be up to 36 min imo though, he has a fouling trouble not rebounding so i don't know the point of bashing his work on the boards,
Now, obviously Bargnani creates more opportunities for others, but so would any other good scorer. But if you can get a good scorer who also isn't a liability on defense, then you're that much better.
As for a triumvirate of Bargnani, Davis and Amir, we've already seen that simply doesn't work. I'm not sure what you're expecting to be different in the future.
Really, no one is really disputing that a player who plays on the perimeter is going to get fewer offensive rebounds, but there's absolutely no excuse why he can't get more defensive rebounds. The whole problem with Bargnani is that he never tries to make up for areas which he is weak in.
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
And I agree that Hugmenot does not belong in the same category as some others, since his arguments are well researched and argued. Just for the record, though, it's not Hugemenot, but Hugmenot, which, I believe, is not french but simply a shortened version of Hug Me Not. I actually assumed it was french, as well, until I actually took a closer look at the spelling. Maybe the actual poster can enlighten us the exact meaning of his moniker.
Ah, wrong Colangelo dude but point taken.''Bargnani and 'grew from year to year, and' always improved. Did not deserve those piles of mud.'' Canadian criticism to the 'magician' is excessive and unjustified: word coach Ettore Messina. Andrea Bargnani has come under fire by Jerry Colangelo, president and general manager of the Toronto Raptors, after the negative closed season with 22 victories and 60 defeats. The long Roman, the first overall pick in 2006, ended the year with 21.4 points and 5.2 rebounds per game, often charging the attack on the shoulders of training led by coach Jay Triano. Conference in late season, Bargnani Colangelo called''the enigma of all enigmas''pointing the finger at the player, into a sort of scapegoat.
Source: adnkronos.com''It does not seem right,''says Messina, who coached Benetton Treviso to Bargnani. Andrea,''says the coach-ADNKRONOS has always done better every year. I've coached, I know that person '. Has certain technical features, like everyone needs to feel at ease to do their best. Pull his piles of mud on him does not seem quite correct: in addition, we are not talking about a selfless young man. It 's a player who can stay in a dressing room and who knows what a team.''
''I respect the opinions of all and not let me go outside in detailed technical discussions. In principle, however, we are talking about a player growing. Andrea does not play for stats, play for the team but should not be too exciting to be part of a team to 20 wins per season,''says Messina.
The 'magician' is related to the Raptors by a valid contract until 2015. ''I hope that Andrew is adequately reflected environmental and technical, in Toronto at this point it seems difficult to reconcile the relationship. The hope of finding the conditions to do better, and this also blue key,''says Messina.
If Toronto really wants to sell the 25-year old Roman, the first move did not appear bright:''I do not see a genius in terms of communication and marketing, and sprimersi in this way on a player still under contract. Who was general manager of the year twice, one expects something more constructive. If they thought to stimulate Bargnani has not been found, however, a large ...''.
Source: adnkronos.com (Google Translation)
If only Messina could have passed on these "help defense" techniques to the big fella. Maybe he wouldn't be under fire now?
Source: Jack Armstrong's Blog, Raptors.comI found Bryan Colangelo's comments about him at a press conference last Monday to be quite revealing when he spoke about his rebounding and defence. Was I surprised by it? At this stage, no. Bottom line, when a player that you've bent over backward to try to nurture and bring along and develop and show support and patience with continues to frustrate/perplex you and puts your own livelihood on the line, you tend to say enough is enough. If Bargnani returns to the Raptors next season, he not only owes the organization, the fans, his teammates and himself a lot more, he owes Colangelo and Jay Triano greater commitment to everything being asked/demanded of him. He's been treated very fairly and at times they've enabled him too much. He has let them down. The "kid gloves" are rightfully off now and obviously should have been off way sooner. It's now or never. As a man, you look in the mirror and question yourself and what you stand for at this stage. Congrats to him on having a career year in points per game but how does it feel to be on a 60-loss team? Time to respond to the challenge. He CAN do it. Will he? Your guess is as good as mine.
Last edited by Apollo; Tue Apr 26th, 2011 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Source
That pretty much sums up my sentiments to Bargnani exactly. It is put up or shut up time.
Its Bargs or BC , and BC has the cajones now to bite the bullet and get rid of him. Now as for rebuilding all we need is Stan Van Gundy to get fired and maybe this team will be on its way to contention.
I don't think Colangelo's comments have anything to do with guts. This has everything to do with being on the edge of the plank.
It is actually fun thing arguing about Bargnani especially if you don't have much to do at work lol .Thank you financial crisis
Tim W. and many try to give facts,and use logical thinking operating with the facts from statistics and observation from watching the games.Which is IMO the right way to determine whether a player sucks or not.Bargnani defenders tend to back up their opinion only with the fact that Bargnani can score(not so efficiently as they think btw) and they deny any fact given to them that shows he isn't what they think he is.And someone who actually knows the game should recognise that.Even if they are just fans who just watch the games(or I have a feeling sometimes just read the boxscore) given the arguments backed up with facts should see it only by using logical thinking.I don't believe most posters here are women(no offense I just read they are less logical...don't know if it's true but if you think about it.... ) so how aren't they seeing it?I don't get it how they don't see it therefore there is still a chance for them to be enlightened about that matter.
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